Death of my beloved budgie

[Ivan.Vanca]

Hello. Maybe I was posting here in October about my beloved budgie Bilko who died on acute liver hepatitis. Still not clear whether it was viral, but probably multifactorial.
Yesterday my beloved healthly vital budgie Vitko died. I was on autopsy today. He had more enlarged liver than Bilko had, but not such hyperemia. HE also had enlarged spleen. IT looks like a possible herpetic virus, or chlamydiosis, but probably not chlamydiosis.

Vitko was vital and healthy, young great budgie. I regret all my sins towards him and other budgies in the past.
Other results will show, confirm the infectious inflammation of the liver.
I heard that stress can activate the sleeping virus in the bird.
But, can the stress which I caused, or my anxiety.., cause such a bird problem and be a main cause of that? Thank you.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Ivan I am saddened to hear of the passing of your two beautiful budgie boys :31: To have two Budgies pass in short notice of the same illness is strange. I suggest if you are thinking of getting another little one that you THOROUGHLY disenfect the Budgie house. I'm sorry I cannot tell you what happened,only an avian type vet can.


Jim

 

[Laurasea]

I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for looking into the cause of death and sharing with us. This could help another bird. I hope you share the results when they come in.

No your stress didn't make him sick. There is some reason.
I googled, seems budgies and cockatiel are more prone to liver disease. Here is the link
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/liver-disorders-in-birds

 

[Scott]

My deepest condolences for your loss of Vitko.

Reading posts from members with budgie experience tends to suggest genetic causes as more likely than stress.

 

[Tami2]

 

[texsize]

I am very sorry for your loss.
I lost one of my Cockatiels to something sounding a lot like what your budge died of.
Just out of the blue she was having trouble breathing. took her in to the vet the next morning and she died at the vets office.
She had bruises on her skin because she her blood was not able to clot and her liver has bad in some way I did not understand.
So far her 3 offspring are healthy and active.

Keeping you in my thoughts.
texsize

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Thank you, all, for your comments. Our dead pets are surely having a good another life.
Texsize, I am sorry for your cockatiel, she was probably called Blue. Like my female budgie was Blue and also had problems with breathing, she had a cholangiocarcinoma of the liver. Enlarged liver caused the hard breathing, like probably at your budgie. Do you know the certain diagnose?


Btw : I will post the other results from the histology of my beloved budgie. Now I just know that chlamydia was found, but do not know, whether this was the main cause. 2 my females had chlamydia in the past and were cured by doxycycliine and were found negative after that. Maybe the partner of Vitko ( albino budgie ) could be some carrier of the chlamydiosis, despite she was cured. Her eyes stayed red, but not naturally red due to albino, ,but from the fight with chlamydiosis. I will have to cure now for 45 days again.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Ivan, what a big warm heart you have. I was very moved by your thoughts about regretting your sins. We all make mistakes and live to regret them, don't we? When you shared that, I felt as if you encouraged and challenged us to try even harder not to make those mistakes (although we just can't be perfect, of course!). You gave those two little birds so much, and you saw them into Eternity with true love. I am so glad that you found us and had the bravery to tell your story. I am going to take your encouragement and make a resolution not to call the Rickeybird any names for the rest of the day! I have a big smile on my face for you right now!

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

AmyMyBlueFront, I have 4 budgies now, 2 children of Vitko, his partner ( albino female budgie who might have chlamydiosis again ) and one another female who had 2 previous owners. I have to give medications against chlamydiosis for 45 days now, and not buying another male or males during treatment.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Galeria, how do you mean that about not to call your bird any name for the rest of the day? I wanted to be honest about my sins.... I hope it did not cause the liver inflammation... I have an information that some chlamydia was found, maybe it could come from the partner of Vitko who had that in the past... but I will know more later. I am feeling very sad, because Vitko was very vital health, dominant, like the budgie should be. 4 my beloved budgies died in less than 3 last years and this annoys me very much.

 

[Laurasea]

Chlaymydia can be difficult to eradicate, and often comes back. That's why it has a long treatments time, and often a second round of treatment has to happen. Ellen D usesd to post good info on this.
You do need to keep doing extra cleaning everyday during treatments to help prevent reinfecting. Remove nest boxs, possibly replace with new ones. Remove any soft perches or toys that can't be cleaned well.

From what I understand many birds can be carriers and it's easily spread. When one bird is found positive all in the home should be treated even if they don't live together. So it's great that all your birds will be treated, and with scrupulous cleaning hopefully it will gone for good in your flock.

Any new birds should be quarantined and tested. Budgies are usually bred in large flocks and so have a higher incidence of this. My understanding is their are also several strains. Babies birds are more likely to die, while older birds may not be actively sick, or only become sick if something's else lowers their immunity, or it's one of the nastier strains of this bacteria.

I'm so sorry for your losses. But you are an excellent owner going above the norm in having a necropsy done. Seeking vet care provider treatment and sharing the info with us. You are really showing your love for these beautiful Parrots!! I know it must be difficult to think about and talk about, so thank you. It increases everyon awareness.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Laurasea, thanks... I am not such good in my behaviour towards my budgies. Yesterday I was cleaning again all the cages, perches, bowls..... in the case of possible herpesvirus. I was cleaning just with F10SC. It took me a long time... I am certainly not going to do that again, I would not do nothing else all the day.
The bird box remained the old where is still the possible carrier albino budgies who was rescued by me from the store more than one year ago. Not another cleaning now despite the old bird box remained there. OF course, if I would knew that chlamydia is such recidivistic and could harm my another budgies, I would not take the budgie from the store.... The stress from me can activate the chlamydia, I do not know.
But, still it is not clear whether the chlamydia was the main trigger. I do not have the histology report now.

So, I will stop with dosing antiherpesvirus medication and start with doxycycline. I do not know how will the albino female or the another scared female be now 45 days without male companions. There are also 2 young budgies from Vitko and this albino female, but they have their own world.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Btw : my vet. doctor was not awaiting the chlamydia, because chlamydia has a long term working process, this was extremely acute and quick.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Hello. My beloved budgie Vitko was found in his histology report an acute leukemia - lymphoma. But this cancer cells were found in the liver and spleen. I do not know how is that possible that cancer cells from the blood get into the liver and spleen.

 

[Laurasea]

The liver washes the blood of the body. The spleen stores blood. So it does make sense.
I'm glad you got answers. Now you know it is not your fault at all, no way.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Laurasea, thanks. I will be asking on that. Well, the stress does not contribute here? Can not be some poisoning from something harmfull? And what do you think about that....- Vitko was absolutely healthy not english budgie..., vital, quick..., and it killed just him? How is that possible? Genetics at such healthy budgie?

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Btw : If it was going through the blood, how is it possible that kidneys were ok, no problem or cancer cells on them?

 

[Laurasea]

I myself do not fully understand cancers of the blood. Kidney aren't full of blood, like the liver and spleen are. They process waste... But really my understanding is limited.
Leukemia has been linked with viruses in other animals, and birds, but it can be genetic, or unknown. I found the following paragraph in my Google
Leukemia and lymphosarcoma are two very dangerous types of cancer involving the white blood cells and lymphatic system, respectively. Leukemia can involve either lymphocytes or granulocytes, two cell lines of white blood cells. I have most often seen leukemia in adult macaws. In spite of aggressive chemotherapy in several cases, none of the birds went into remission of the disease. There is a close association between the virus responsible for Marek's disease and certain cancers in chickens and there are suspicions that some leukemias in birds and other species may be associated with some viruses, as well.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Thank you, Laurasea.
Yes, ,you are right my vet. doctor told me Vitko s samples could be tested on some virus at chickens which causes this cancer and I agreed. But PCR method of examinating viruses need not be reliable.
I still do not know in this case the difference between leukemia and lymphoma in liver and spleen. I am totally messed.
How can the liver be enlarged in such a short time. My previous female budgie Blue was suffering cholangiocarcinoma of the liver, and it was lasting for maybe one year and a half.
Vitko s partner albino female budgie Cicinka is also a little handicaped. Her eyes stayed sickly red after chlamydia treatment in the past, but she is a budgie sho spends too much time in the bird box. Her current eggs in the bird box were boiled, but I let her to be in the bird box. When she flies from the box, she is having such strange stand on the perch and I noticed the strange sounds at breathing like at a thyroid problem or something like that.
It looks like she feels comfortably only in the bird box. I can not buy another male for her now, when I have to treat against chlamydiosis.

I was talking with some man here who breeds natural green budgies, but he has such many of them ( 60 adult pairs ), that I do not believe there is not inbreeding, despite he was trying to explain in to me. I think in the future I will be not oriented only in the natural green budgies. What do you think?

 

[Laurasea]

Firstly the cleaning while you eradicate the bacteria chlaymydia, and any virus , pain in the but it may be, us a must. As is replacing the breeder box's as I don't think they can be properly cleaned. Over time the best box is going to asotb birth fluids, regurgitation, and waste, which provides breeding grounds for nasties.

Second , chlaymydia causes liver enlargement. Acutely or chronic. There are links with chronic inflammation and cancer. Just like there are links with virus and cancer, and genetics, and environmental toxins. Life is complex, and individual response to disease varies. You could have multiple things goin on in your flock, and in individuals in the flock.

This paragraph I found talks about liver inflammation and enlargement with chlaymydia.
"This is from a difference article
Budgerigars (Budgies)

Budgerigars, or budgies, commonly develop cancerous tumors in their kidneys and reproductive organs. Kidney, ovarian, and testicular tumors often cause a unilateral (one-sided) lameness that owners often mistake for an injured leg.
Goiter (underactive thyroid gland, or hypothyroidism) also can occur in budgies, especially when they are on all-seed diets. Seed contains very low levels of iodine that is required by the thyroid gland to function properly; therefore, the gland swells to try to extract all the iron it can from the seeds. Budgies afflicted with this condition are often overweight and have a squeaky voice or regurgitate when they eat as a result of the enlarged thyroid gland pressing on the esophagus.
Another condition commonly seen in budgies, especially when they are in close contact with other budgies in pet stores, is psittacosis (also called chlamydiosis or parrot fever). It may be carried by budgies without them showing any clinical signs, or infected birds may show respiratory signs (sneezing, difficulty breathing, decreased ability to fly, and tail bobbing) or a swollen abdomen from liver enlargement.
Since many owners incorrectly feed all-seed, high-fat diets to their budgies, obesity is common in these birds. Hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease) is a problem that often results and causes death. This species also is predisposed to poor diet-related (high-fat, all-seed) tumors called lipomas and xanthomas that may be found on the wings and ventral abdomen. Lipomas appear as pockets of soft, white, moveable fat, while xanthomas are typically firm, fixed, and yellow-orange.
Reproductive problems are very common in pet birds, as well. Egg binding is seen often in pet budgerigars, even those housed individually without a mate, that are still capable of laying eggs. Birds often become egg bound when they are eating diets high in seed that lack calcium and vitamin D, which are critical in the formation and laying of eggs."

I'm not the best at understanding genetics. But I've worked with endagered species, and it's generally regaurded that you need 100 individuals at a minimum in a wild population to insure genetic diversity. So depending on how long this breeder with sixty birds has been breeding, and wether or not new stock is aded , there could be loss of diversity. But when selecting for color mutation it's always a good idea to add normal color stock back to the program. As I understand it from reading about a well known lutino Quaker breeder. As when you are selecting for color, there are other genitic factors that are linked. You can't really just select the color factor of genes, other traits are linked. As again in Quakers the blue quakers are smaller than other color quakers, so somewhere along theine color was linked with size, and color mutations are back bred to establish the color..

We have a few avairy breeders here. Perhaps you can start a new thread asking for their cleaning practice, if they do replace nestboxs at certain intervals. How they manage diseases outbreaks and loss. I fear I'm nearing the end of my usefulness to your issues. But your frank discussion of your Budgie loss, will no doubt be helpful to others.