Dark red syndrome

[DarlaTX]

Hello, I'm trying to find more information on Sun Conures with Dark red feathers, I can only find minimal information on this subject and it was a pretty clear it's 100% fatal. I'd really like some more information on this, and would really appreciate anyone's advice and/or opinions on the subject. :red:

ATTACHED PHOTO OF MY BABY

 

[ParrotLover2001]

Are you talking about the red factor mutation?
If so, that is just a mutation, it won't kill the bird.
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[Owlet]

I cant find anything about dark red feathers aside from the red factor mutation, do you have pictures or articles?

 

[DarlaTX]

Are you talking about the red factor mutation?
If so, that is just a mutation, it won't kill the bird.
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Well, I have a young sun conure that I was told had a possible "dark red" feather mutation that causes metabolic issues and I'm scared to loose him
I read on one webpage that this is fatal right after weaning and it's a slow death!
I didn't know this was even a thing. I'm posting a picture of him napping in my lap.

 

[fiddlejen]

Please do post a picture. Please also post a link to the webpage that is worrying you also.

 

[fiddlejen]

Hm I wonder if I have found the webpage. https://birdcompanions.com/FCA%20The%20Red%20Factor%20Sun%20Conure%20Color%20Mutation.pdf Is this it?

There is a picture of a young sunny with this Dark Red Syndrome, and it's coloration looks a lot more like a Scarlet or Greenwing Macaw, rather than what you'd normally expect on a Sun Conure.

That page is dated 2013, but, indeed it says that such a bird might not survive.

Is this what yours looks like? How old is your baby bird? This information seems to indicate it would have to come from Both Parents being Red Factor Sun Conures. Is your bird from a Red Factor breeder? If so perhaps they have encountered this and can help you?

 

[DarlaTX]

Hm I wonder if I have found the webpage. https://birdcompanions.com/FCA The Red Factor Sun Conure Color Mutation.pdf Is this it?

There is a picture of a young sunny with this Dark Red Syndrome, and it's coloration looks a lot more like a Scarlet or Greenwing Macaw, rather than what you'd normally expect on a Sun Conure.

That page is dated 2013, but, indeed it says that such a bird might not survive.

Is this what yours looks like? How old is your baby bird? This information seems to indicate it would have to come from Both Parents being Red Factor Sun Conures. Is your bird from a Red Factor breeder? If so perhaps they have encountered this and can help you?

Yes, that's the website, it's a bit outdated and honestly nothing else anywhere comes up about it?.hoping it was just old info. My baby is almost weaned and does have more bright red feathers and no yellow or green. I'm trying to upload a photo, but it's not letting me

 

[DarlaTX]

I cant find anything about dark red feathers aside from the red factor mutation, do you have pictures or articles?

https://birdcompanions.com/FCA The Red Factor Sun Conure Color Mutation.pdf

 

[texsize]

Well I think he is beautiful.

 

[SailBoat]

The danger in breeding mutations for a specific color is that other body structures (weakened) can be by accident rolled into the breeding process. The likelihood that color is the cause would be unusual.

As with any illness its working with an Avian Medical Professional and seeing them regularly that helps! This will allow a professional to have eyes on your Parrot. And if there is such a connection the effected body structure can be supported with targeted diet and /or medication, which can support a longer life.

The number of Avian Medical Professionals, more commonly know as Certified Avian Vets (CAV), continue to grow. Find one near you and begin providing your Parrot a healthier future.

 

[Skarila]

I cant find anything about dark red feathers aside from the red factor mutation, do you have pictures or articles?

https://birdcompanions.com/FCA The Red Factor Sun Conure Color Mutation.pdf

Seems like a normal high red factor, not dark red. If you read carefuly in the article what you've shared, it does show you the visible differences between a normal, dark red (sick) and the high red mutation. dark red is scarlet red - yours still looks quite orange to me, so I wouldn't worry if I were you.

 

[fiddlejen]

I cant find anything about dark red feathers aside from the red factor mutation, do you have pictures or articles?

https://birdcompanions.com/FCA The Red Factor Sun Conure Color Mutation.pdf

Seems like a normal high red factor, not dark red. If you read carefuly in the article what you've shared, it does show you the visible differences between a normal, dark red (sick) and the high red mutation. dark red is scarlet red - yours still looks quite orange to me, so I wouldn't worry if I were you.

Myself from the article I could not get a sense of what a normal Red factor should look like at this age - but - I also feel your baby is not As Red as the "Dark Red" in the article; that is, based on your photo I see a reddish-orangish-red color, rather than a straightforward red-Lacking-orange color. So I'm happy to second Skarila in the estimation of your baby's color as a "normal high red!"

That said, today I woke up thinking about your baby bird. IF IF indeed it were to have the Dangerous red mutation, all would not be hopeless. Granted there is not as much info easily available as would be prefered. But there are many instances of human babies with genetic disorders who live far beyond the medical estimates, even historically ie without intensive techno-medical interventions.

So IF the photo colors are not exact, IF your baby does have this dangerous scarlet mutation, then Even if all prior instances of a Dark-Red mutation have all had metabolic problems, that does not mean yours will -- you could have a NEW mutation -- OR, it does not mean Yours would have it as badly. I would suggest learn what you can of the disorder -- (I know, that is what you're doing now!)-- AND if possible figure out what they were feeding those birds. The idea being, to Change it. That was written in 2013. I'm not sure when it became accepted knowledge that birds need fresh foods, veggies, and maybe seeds, vs when pellets were considered "best." I Do Know there was a time when an All-Pellet diet was considered best. POSSIBLY a Dark Red Syndrome bird cannot metabolize PELLETS? ??

I suggest researching the expected symptoms. Then research other disorders, or non-disorders, with related symptoms. Across the board, in parrots, in chickens (there might be more knowledge but also might be more tendency to assume mortality), other birds, and especially even in humans (just because there is more research). Then be creative.

I mention non-disorders because now I am thinking of Ekkies. They are brightly-colored, Lack Orange & Yellow in their coloration, and they have Very Specific nutritional needs. Regular pellet-diets can harm them, as I understand, due to poor metabolizing of some vitamins? That might be a starting point, IF your birdie seems to show any symptoms.

I suggest Waiting until you see Any Symptoms before experimenting. But IF symptoms occur, if it were me, that would be my First attempt; see how birdie does with an Eclectus Diet.

Another thought would be that, again assuming a potential problem with pellets, many People can be sensitive to colorings. I have noticed my bright orange sunny Loves Orange colored foods, and likewise my Green budgie loves green foods. Some pellets have vegetable-based dyes and some are artificial. But in either case that could also be an area for experimentation IF you find your baby developing any symptoms of this syndrome.

Sailboat mentioned working closely with an Avian professional. I agree BUT with a BIG CAVEAT. You DO want someone who can Help and Guide you, and also IF your baby were going "downhill," could let you know. BUT. You do NOT want an Avian or other veterinary professional who is just going to tell you to Euthanize your baby when/if symptoms appear. (Unless that is what you want.) INDEED - I would strongly suggest that until you have established a relationship with an Avian Vet, do NOT accept a covid-protocol visit. Do Not let them take your baby away from your direct supervison. I have read at least one account (either here or else on reddit, not sure) of a bird who was euthanized without Real consent (owner was pressured into a 'yes' while bird was in the office without her), and I would be quite worried it might happen IF they think your bird has this syndrome.

Considering how the Only easy-to-find article states that Any bird with this syndrome Will die painfully, it is NOT beyond reason that a Veterinarian MIGHT think he/she doing right thing to Tell You it "Will" die and strongly push for euthanization as kindness.

So. TLDR: (1) MIGHT NOT be "Dark Red Syndrome." (2) IF it IS, it MIGHT NOT be hopeless if you're willing to experiment with treatments, esp DIETARY changes. (3) A WILLING Avian vet can help manage symptoms, monitor bloodwork, etc, BUT, BE WARY and DON'T let a well-meaning Vet kill your bird.

 

[Scott]

Sailboat mentioned working closely with an Avian professional. I agree BUT with a BIG CAVEAT. You DO want someone who can Help and Guide you, and also IF your baby were going "downhill," could let you know. BUT. You do NOT want an Avian or other veterinary professional who is just going to tell you to Euthanize your baby when/if symptoms appear. (Unless that is what you want.) INDEED - I would strongly suggest that until you have established a relationship with an Avian Vet, do NOT accept a covid-protocol visit. Do Not let them take your baby away from your direct supervison. I have read at least one account (either here or else on reddit, not sure) of a bird who was euthanized without Real consent (owner was pressured into a 'yes' while bird was in the office without her), and I would be quite worried it might happen IF they think your bird has this syndrome.

Considering how the Only easy-to-find article states that Any bird with this syndrome Will die painfully, it is NOT beyond reason that a Veterinarian MIGHT think he/she doing right thing to Tell You it "Will" die and strongly push for euthanization as kindness.

So. TLDR: (1) MIGHT NOT be "Dark Red Syndrome." (2) IF it IS, it MIGHT NOT be hopeless if you're willing to experiment with treatments, esp DIETARY changes. (3) A WILLING Avian vet can help manage symptoms, monitor bloodwork, etc, BUT, BE WARY and DON'T let a well-meaning Vet kill your bird.

I had not contemplated notion of vet being worst enemy under such conditions. Only a barbaric vulture (the sub-human variety) would coerce or compel euthanasia with genetic issues that have not yet manifested. Would definitely seek second/third opinion(s) and scour literature for alternative therapies.

 

[SailBoat]

Sailboat mentioned working closely with an Avian professional. I agree BUT with a BIG CAVEAT. You DO want someone who can Help and Guide you, and also IF your baby were going "downhill," could let you know. BUT. You do NOT want an Avian or other veterinary professional who is just going to tell you to Euthanize your baby when/if symptoms appear. (Unless that is what you want.) INDEED - I would strongly suggest that until you have established a relationship with an Avian Vet, do NOT accept a covid-protocol visit. Do Not let them take your baby away from your direct supervison. I have read at least one account (either here or else on reddit, not sure) of a bird who was euthanized without Real consent (owner was pressured into a 'yes' while bird was in the office without her), and I would be quite worried it might happen IF they think your bird has this syndrome.

Considering how the Only easy-to-find article states that Any bird with this syndrome Will die painfully, it is NOT beyond reason that a Veterinarian MIGHT think he/she doing right thing to Tell You it "Will" die and strongly push for euthanization as kindness.

So. TLDR: (1) MIGHT NOT be "Dark Red Syndrome." (2) IF it IS, it MIGHT NOT be hopeless if you're willing to experiment with treatments, esp DIETARY changes. (3) A WILLING Avian vet can help manage symptoms, monitor bloodwork, etc, BUT, BE WARY and DON'T let a well-meaning Vet kill your bird.

I had not contemplated notion of vet being worst enemy under such conditions. Only a barbaric vulture (the sub-human variety) would coerce or compel euthanasia with genetic issues that have not yet manifested. Would definitely seek second/third opinion(s) and scour literature for alternative therapies.

Since, I was mention here. I will say that I have never come across such an Avian Professional! Never!! A true certified professional would never make such a recommendation. Not sure what is roaming your area portraying themselves as avian professionals, but clearly they are miss-representing themselves and need to be reported to your State's licensing group.

 

[DarlaTX]

I can’t thank you ENOUGH for your insight and advice on my concerns. You’ve all made me feel like there is some hope….and trust me, I will NEVER give up without a fight for my baby. I will continue to research and post updates if anything were to change.

 

[Scott]

Thank you for raising awareness of genetic mutations, hoping your baby remains unscathed. Please keep us updated!

 

[wrench13]

Very interesting article, sounds like the person knows what they are wrting about. But your sunnie does not appear to be one of the Dark Red factor birds, as they mention the almost bronze color of the wing feathers, among other visual ques. He is a stunning looking sunnie, for sure. As others have recommended, get him to a CAV ASAP, for a general medical exam and blood panel. Let the vet see that article. An exam upon bringing the parrot home is excellent advice. If there is anything of concern, you can take it up with the breeder; if everything is fine, it provides the vet with a base line data, so that if the parrot becomes ill in the future, he can know what all the results were when the bird was totally OK. Its probably the most important vet visit of all !!

 

[DarlaTX]

UPDATE: with a very heavy heart I would like update everyone that My Red factor Sunny passed away. I finally got in contact with a Breeder that was willing to comment about the 25% "disposable" red factor babies. So apparently to get the higher red color they breed 2 high red factor Sunnies knowing that there is a 25% chance that a ?sickly? one will hatch and they really don't care. It's worth it to the breeder to collect $1500 plus on the other 3 "normal" high reds and leave the other to die. My Sunny lived a short life with us, but it was filled with lots of love and cuddles. He passed in a home with his family, not in some tub all alone. I learned a very hard lesson about high red Sunnies and I'll never see them the same. I hope I raised a little awareness to this, and maybe help someone avoid a broken heart :red:
He will be dearly missed

 

[Stitchthestitch]

Oh I am so so sorry for your loss.

 

[mboundy]

I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for giving him a life full of love.

I won't comment on the breeder, aside from wishing the same 25% odds on them.

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