Clip wings or not?

[MikeyTN]

Marawentz,

It really depends on how they were clipped in the first place to take flight! I've tried different clippings before, if you clip properly, not even a gust of wind will pick up the bird! I have tried it many times!!! The way to do it is to clip off the primary flight feathers in a line with the secondary feathers and go half way where you meet the secondary feathers towards the body. I've clipped 100's of birds in the past, no issues taking them outside!

I'm not sure what you're arguing about, so I'm going to narrow it down to 2 things that I think you may be referring to:

1. Clipped bird cannot fly- I have stated that they can- gust or wind or not
2. Clipped bird isn't safe outside- they can fly as already stated, but they have harder time than flighted, so if danger were to come my bets would be on a flighted birds being faster and more able to maneuver than a clipped one that has to exert more energy.

Again, IF you clip properly, they don't even glide at all so no flying period! The reason they glide is IF you don't clip off all the primary flight feathers where they can still take off flying just a bit.

 

[MaraWentz]

IMO if clipped properly they will glide, like any clipped bird would. Hence many articles state that a clipped bird not being able to fly is myth. I think if they can't glide at least that it is more hazardous than being flighted. If they cant even glide that means one slip on a perch, one funny acrobatic hanging gone wrong, one spook can cause them to fall and depending how high or hard or what on will break a wing, leg, or neck.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I'm ONLY going to say this, and then stay FAR FAR away from this thread: If ANY bird simply plops to the ground after being clipped, then someone seriously messed up with a very simple procedure.

 

[SandyBee]

I'm staying away too after I add this.
I have no ceiling fans and no other animals, very controlled environment

my amazon can fly 20 - 40 feet with wings clipped, lands perfectly and knows about windows etc...I give him open cage policy when I am home because I can trust him not to hurt himself.

My brown head, I don't think she was ever flighted, she flutters to the ground allright but has no control for direction, panics, can't land properly(she panics) runs into things and makes me worry. I am letting her grow her wings out and hopefully teach her a bit before she hurts herself. Even though she can't fly I cannot leave her with an open cage, she will just get into trouble if she panics.

 

[Mitz]

Haha I thank you all for your comments! A lot of useful tips! First I do want to clarify that I'm not in a big town and have crowds of people coming through my doors all the time (at times when we do get busy I will keep it in its cage). Cage is around the corner of the door so it can't as easily go through the door. If I take it outside I will def keep it in its harness.

One thing I do want to ask is: can I train my parrot to not stay in or on its cage until I come n take it like Pedro did?

Thanks again n no arguing plz! lol

 

[MaraWentz]

Can you be a bit more specific? Do you mean like teach it stay and come?

 

[Chikoo]

Haha I thank you all for your comments! A lot of useful tips! First I do want to clarify that I'm not in a big town and have crowds of people coming through my doors all the time (at times when we do get busy I will keep it in its cage). Cage is around the corner of the door so it can't as easily go through the door. If I take it outside I will def keep it in its harness.

One thing I do want to ask is: can I train my parrot to not stay in or on its cage until I come n take it like Pedro did?

Thanks again n no arguing plz! lol

I'm sure you can train your bird to do this, but even then, there could be various environmental factors that cause your bird to freak in your hotel lobby in the midst of a usually 99% successful training exercise. That 1% when your bird doesn't do as you usually train him because he saw something he doesn't like and takes off could be really bad.

My suggestion is that if you keep him in the hotel lobby flighted, then keep him in his cage. Not sure how others feel about this, but if you want to keep him out, then hold him, and keep your thumb over his feet. Keeping a flighted bird on his own free perch in a hotel lobby is asking for trouble, in my opinion. So if you want to keep him flighted, which I fully support, then keep him in his cage, and otherwise to handle him or have him out, keep him on your hand with your thumb over his feet.

I often take my female for walks (she is fully flighted and a great flier) and all I do is hold her feet. She is very used to it and allows me to do this with no issue. I just scoot her feet over so they are close together so my thumb has a nice seal over both of them, and off we go. This does take some training and trust between you and your bird, but its very simple. But yes, harnesses are also great. I use the Aviator Harness for both of my birds.

 

[Mitz]

Can you be a bit more specific? Do you mean like teach it stay and come?

Yes that what I mean. To stay on the perch at all times until I go to him and tell him to step up and I can take him around

 

[MikeyTN]

IMO if clipped properly they will glide, like any clipped bird would. Hence many articles state that a clipped bird not being able to fly is myth. I think if they can't glide at least that it is more hazardous than being flighted. If they cant even glide that means one slip on a perch, one funny acrobatic hanging gone wrong, one spook can cause them to fall and depending how high or hard or what on will break a wing, leg, or neck.

Most birds that do have those accidents were mainly flighted birds. Have you tried the method I've said to see if they can glide? I've clipped and trained 100's.

To not being able to glide is NOT a cut gone wrong. The MAIN purpose most people trim is so they can take them outside, with part of the primary flight feathers left on their wings so they can glide is what cause them to take flight in the first place. Why do you think so many people lose their birds outside? I have personally taken birds outside and they were NOT able to take off on a gust of wind. I have lost one bird outside 14 years ago with the clipping that allow him to glide, a gust of wind came up, there he goes up high into a tall tree, but I was able to get him back down cause I perch train my babies and he stepped up onto a perch for me and I was able to retrieve him safely to do the proper clip and never had it happen since. When I say proper trim, it does NOT mean hack off all the secondary feathers towards the body. You mainly need to trim off the primary! The families whom got babies from me takes their birds outside and none of them said they've lost the bird cause he flew off. Sure there's the flight suit, but do most new owners use the flight suit to begin with? Absolutely not! So PLEASE gather information what you've done, NOT just from reading articles and such, I've read them too, but I'm speaking from personal experience through years of breeding. I certainly understand that people have different views, but this is mine! Like I've said, I don't clip any of my adults and they're all flighted. But I also know not to leave doors open, there's no kids here, we don't go outside, got brand new big windows for their room, when out flying there's curtains in front of ALL windows, ceiling fans are off, etc. I love my birds and the babies I've raised, I would NEVER do improper clipping to hurt any of them.

 

[MaraWentz]

@ Mike you're opinion of right vs wrong is way different from mne. What you see as normal, I ee as cruel. m done arguing with you.

@ Mitz I suppose its possible, but prob. difficult as birds can be much more stubborn than another per such as a dog, but its doable. My suggestion to prevent acident would be to put thm in a controlled enviroment with those spooks going on (excluding the window and fan accident obviously). To solve those 2 problems keep the fans off an curtains close when your bird is out. But an example is to put your bird on a long leash and have some one hold the door open and perhaps a kid come in yelling and running. That way you can see wat to expect from him safely.

 

[MikeyTN]

It's quite ridiculous you see it as cruel as you keep birds inside the house like everyone else including me. Some people do think that is cruel too as they think they need to be free. IF I had a place like a bio-dome, they would be flying free within, unfortunately I don't have that sort of fund. It's not about argument, it's about stating the facts! Your stating your part as I'm stating mine. Your not really stating any personal reference to state the fact except from what you read and believe. I am inserting a picture to what I'm talking about, what is left uncut is what you would call secondary feather, this method have been done for YEARS! I wasn't the first one to do this cut as many books teach this very cut!

 

[Pedro]

Great wing clip Mikey, same as i do my smaller parrots however i do the larger birds a little different. Works well & i have never had a bird fly off & get lost with a cut like that , nore have i had one injure itself by dropping to the floor. They gently glide down & land on both feet.

I also think it's cruel to keep a parrot cooped up in a house with only the walls to look at. That said i also think that it's none of my business how owners house their birds. Mine are housed outdoors, they only like being indoors for short periods & absolutely hate it when it starts to get dark. So IMO wing clips are the same, it's none of anyones business if i clip my parrots wings or not. Done right it shouldn't be a problem.

To answer Mitz about training birds to stay put. It actually depends on the temperament of the parrot. Some eclectus are fidgety & others are just happy to hang out on the playstand or top of cage. They don't usualy get scared & run away. You may have to initally clip the wing for training purposes but as i said it will depend on the parrots temperament.

As a final comment. No one is right or wrong when it comes to clipping it is a personal preference, the parrots environment & safety issues should also be taken into consideration.

 

[MaraWentz]

Mike the clip looks great but the fact your birds can't fly or glide, but just fall to the ground is cruel to me. Honestly, please stop arguing with me. This is not what this thread is for and the OP has requested us to stop. So last time, knock it off.

 

[Mitz]

Guys please calm down I'm taking every bodies comments valuably and into consideration. How about keeping the harnessl on when I leave the cage open and it's on the perch so it doesn't fly or glide anywhere if I'm not around? But I'll def put a harness on when I take him outside so he can fly around.

I think I might have to go to someone to clip its wings. Helpful tips would be great for eclectuses. Thanks guys!

 

[Thingamagigs]

Its up to you. But an incorrect or severe clip that wont allow a bird to glide at all is dangerous. Just ask Manny.

Having a correct clip (only cutting back the primary flight feathers) will allow your bird to glide and perhaps even gain some height... but they will have to put in a big effort and will be slow when there is no wind blowing. You will still need to do some training... as much training as if he was fully flighted anyway. But the benefit of a clip is that indoors he wont be able to fly high enough to fans, at least not without a lot of effort... and he will fly slower, so less likely to cause severe injury when flying into a wall or window. I would get him a nice even primary clip, both wings. (this is coming from someone who prefers to have fully flighted birds, so I am not being biased here, being honest for your situation).

Take him around the local area and get him used to the sights and sounds so he is familiar with it and should the worst happen and he escapes, he will be more familiar with the area (less chance of becoming hopelessly lost).

Eclectus are especially clumsy when learning to fly! I've said this before and will say it again The only bird I EVER had (budgies and cockatiels included!) that flew STRAIGHT into a PLAIN white wall was an eclectus. And she did it multiple times! I ended up having to clip her for her safety.

But don't get him cut so he will plop to the ground... Manny with his sore wing would urge all birdie owners to consider the consequences

 

[MikeyTN]

Thingamagigs made some good points!

I keep both of my Eclectus flighted actually, BUT they do get spooked quite easily would take off if they get spooked. But as long as I am in the room with them, they don't take off. It's when I walk off to grab something just for a sec. So far neither one flew into the wall, they fly through the house pretty good actually while looking for me....

Gliding is good yes, but not good for outside IMO, but if you trust your bird enough to return, go for it. A flight harness is even better. If kept indoors it's wise to allow to glide. That's when you only cut off partial of the primary and leave the partial primary untouched near the secondary. I will do this cut IF the new owners ask me to but I do explain both side of the story and let them decide.

Babies can be clumsy that's why they should be taught to fly to begin with before clipping. Then after clipping, they will try to hop off and flip flop so I keep a short stand on the floor on carpet for training purposes. So if they do jump off, they won't hurt themselves. Over time, they will learn they can not fly anymore and depend on you to take them places.

 

[Oedipussrex]

How about keeping the harnessl on when I leave the cage open and it's on the perch so it doesn't fly or glide anywhere if I'm not around? But I'll def put a harness on when I take him outside so he can fly around.

If you mean just have the harness attatched to the stand or cage in a similar idea to tieing up a dog - that sounds dangerous to me. I would only use a harness under supervision. What if he fell off the perch and ended up just dangling by the harness, or what if he got it all tangled up? For the aviator harness brand i use It is also quite easy for them to chew through the elastic part...

 

[Chikoo]

I would be surprised if the bird allows the harness to just be on. My birds have their harness on but they are with me and doing something. The second I put them down, they will start biting at their harness and fidgeting with it. Perched bird + harness = no good, in my experience.

 

[aliray]

Micky TN .thank you for that picture very clear. And I also agree I would not tie a harnesed bird to a perch for fear he would strangle himself in the leash or break a bone by getting tangled

 

[Chikoo]

Thingamagigs made some good points!

Babies can be clumsy that's why they should be taught to fly to begin with before clipping. Then after clipping, they will try to hop off and flip flop so I keep a short stand on the floor on carpet for training purposes. So if they do jump off, they won't hurt themselves. Over time, they will learn they can not fly anymore and depend on you to take them places.

Both my ekkies are flighted too. However, my recently acquired male was kept mostly clipped by his previous owner. He used to fly with his previous owner, but then he flew into a tree, so he was kept clipped since then. He's always been able to fly 10-15 ft clipped. By the time I got him, most of his flight feathers had grown back, and I won't be clipping them. The funny thing is, he never flies! He will only fly in emergencies. He definitely knows that he can fly (or does he??), but I can't get him to fly or move around much. He just doesn't utilize it much. My female on the other hand flies back and forth from her perch to her cage many many times throughout the day.

Do clipped birds realize they can fly when their feathers grow back?