Blue and Gold Macaw, GCC, sticky situation with raiser....

[Kinny]

I have an indoor Green Cheek Conure who is very affectionate and well behaved around my other birds (eclectus, conures, kakarikis) and was preparing to purchase a blue and gold macaw earlier thus year, however my husband not getting the job he was promised, and me flying back and forth to another citys hospital for repeated episodes of threatened preterm labour (all is fine now! Healthy little 3 month old boy) caused us to be unable to purchase the hand raised macaw. We have had a couple of issues with the breeder/raiser, and they have refused us a refund of the deposit (too many irritating details) - my hubby sent the raiser a rather strong worded letter of demand.. I knew that it wasn't going to help, however just having been told by ky doctor not a week earlier that I was going to give birth to a dead child, or watch my son die shortly after being born, I was so distressed that anything ans everything aggravated me, so I didn't stop my husband from sending the letter.

We were a little in the wrong I admit, could've handled it better. However the raiser is also a little in the wrong. I do know that he is one of Australias best handraisrrs of macaws, and would still love one of them, however my husband refuses to apologise to the man.
My husband would rather buy a breeding pair and raise our own.. however I would like a handraised baby to have a few years of amazing companionship, then find the macaw a girly. That way we get the gorgeous pet, a good breeding boy, which I'm sure his personality will pass on to the offspring?

What can I say to convince my husband to get the macaw? I just want to get it for the I adore them, and also to fix everything and end everything with the breeder on a high note. He is a very experienced breeder, we just had a few mishaps and I feel awful about it... I honestly want to quote the bible with all the Forgiveness things in there... Forgive and forget.


Thoughts? Should we just get a breeding pair first or not? What are the pros and cons? What benefits would we get from a pet macaw turned breeder? Husband jinks its 3 or so years of expensive food therefor a waste..... *has very different thoughts* he thinks logically, I think with my heart.

Also, would it be ok to own a bg macaw and gcc in the same house? They would of course he strictly supervised at all times. Or I would work out a schedule so they both get major snuggles and attention every day.

I really do need advice! Husband refuses to apologise because he believes we did nothing wrong.. ok we didn't do much wrong, however I feel this situation MUST be fixed and on a good note! *is rather distressed

I also believe that if clients buying our own hand raised parrots walk in and see an amazingly well behaved and cared for Macaw, it would add some mote professionalism. I will find any reason to make owning a by macaw worthwhile. ANY. I've been so depressed lately, even had self harmful thoughts. But since being able to interact with and begin training my green cheek babies, I have become my old cheerful, chattery, singing self. I've even started paying more attention to my cheeky 2 year old... My life is incomplete without parrots in it. I desperately want a macaw as well as ky gcc. Hubby wants to keep one of our baby Eccies too when there's eggs... Were going to need a bigger property in a couple of years methinks.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I've never met a breeder who offered a refund on the deposit, most places will say "deposit non refundable". Does the breeder have a web site? Look over the fine print, if it doesn't say "deposit non nonrefundable" or something along those lines then your husband has a right to be angry.

I think you should get the weaned blue and gold if you want it, but not if you plan to one day breed him. If you want a breeding pair buy a already established pair, or a bonded pair. Hand raised birds do not make good parents, they are imprinted to people and often believe they are humans themselves.

I'm so happy everything was all right with your baby, you must of been so scared.

 

[sonja]

I think you should wait. It sounds like you have your hands full with two small children. If you haven't been "paying attention" to your 2 year old, you may want to talk to your doctor about depression and get things on track for the sake of your kids before bringing in a new distraction.

 

[ShellyBorg]

Have you ever breed birds before? Any hand on knowledge? Breeding does not always turn a profit. I know of many "breeders" that lost everything to poor knowledge and issues with birds health. One "breeder " lost his home because he could not afford the bills/vet bills/and repay the loan he took out on his house to "get rich quick" off of birds.

Both of your birds are very young, have you owned birds before?
To be able to breed for the first time you will need a mentor. It sounds like this guy would be a great one. I would swallow my pride and make nice with him, even IF you are going to go ahead and "just breed your own" even. Buying a pair does not always mean you will get young. There are so many issues and things to think about, that is where a mentor comes in. Without one you are reinventing the wheel without the knowledge of what it even looks like.
On getting a baby, raising it as a pet, then turning it into a breeder. That could be cruel. He may have NO idea what a girl bird is or even hurt her or her him in there frustration of him being a pet. Please rethink ALL of this. I am not against breeding, I will be a breeder my self one day, but only with the help of other breeders I have the ability to seek help from when needed. You sound like you have a young family. Enjoy it, when you add big birds to the mix you really have to spread your time out.

 

[Kinny]

I've never met a breeder who offered a refund on the deposit, most places will say "deposit non refundable". Does the breeder have a web site? Look over the fine print, if it doesn't say "deposit non nonrefundable" or something along those lines then your husband has a right to be angry.

I think you should get the weaned blue and gold if you want it, but not if you plan to one day breed him. If you want a breeding pair buy a already established pair, or a bonded pair. Hand raised birds do not make good parents, they are imprinted to people and often believe they are humans themselves.

I'm so happy everything was all right with your baby, you must of been so scared.

It does, however I was originally told if things were hard with the pregnancy I would get a refund or deposit could be held onto until the next batch.

Well I originally wanted him so that I could gain more hands on experience before I go throwing myself into breeding them. I've been told by a Jim Mckendry that I am more than capable of even raising my own macaws. I just tend to doubt myself until I actually do it, in which case I pleasantly surpise myself!

Ahh. That sounds right. Thank you, oh it was.. I am not keen on having another child after that experience...

 

[faeryphoebe1]

Kinny, are you the person who posted that pic of a beautiful baby swaddled in a blue with the most adorable GCC on top? Congratulations on your baby!

 

[Kinny]

I think you should wait. It sounds like you have your hands full with two small children. If you haven't been "paying attention" to your 2 year old, you may want to talk to your doctor about depression and get things on track for the sake of your kids before bringing in a new distraction.

You know what's funny about that? I was depressed and not paying attention to my 2 year old before my pair had babies.. I've been depressed since my pet Kakariki Muta died not 7 months ago.. his mate by a neighbours darn cat 1 month ago, and my dear Kioko, a jenday I worked with who had major behavioral issues and became my familys best per parrot died when I was in hospital...husband says she froze herself.. I've blamedyself for each ones death even though it was not my fault. So whenever there are birds to raise and train, my empty spot is filled and for some reason I can function normally, if I gave parrots around. My Muta Kakariki was like my own son.. so I've been grieving a lot... But now am ready to move on. I'll never forget him though.

It's not a distraction actually, my husband has noticed how cheerful I am,how organised, and how its made me spend more time with everone.

 

[Kinny]

I have visited breeders and they've mentored me a little, I've retamed small parrots, and I've had breeding pairs of birds for years but they ate only now actually making babies. I've gandraised for years many parrots, however I'm relatively new to breeding them.

Goodness... I wouldn't want to endanger everyone like that!

Yes, I've owned MANY birds before. Ringnecks, jendays, gcc, budgies, kakarikis, Eclectus. I am very experienced in raising and training, but breeding I am new to.

I can handle a big bird and everything else, I just want to convince my husband to put aside his ego for everyones sakes.. that's what's stressing me out.

Have you ever breed birds before? Any hand on knowledge? Breeding does not always turn a profit. I know of many "breeders" that lost everything to poor knowledge and issues with birds health. One "breeder " lost his home because he could not afford the bills/vet bills/and repay the loan he took out on his house to "get rich quick" off of birds.

Both of your birds are very young, have you owned birds before?
To be able to breed for the first time you will need a mentor. It sounds like this guy would be a great one. I would swallow my pride and make nice with him, even IF you are going to go ahead and "just breed your own" even. Buying a pair does not always mean you will get young. There are so many issues and things to think about, that is where a mentor comes in. Without one you are reinventing the wheel without the knowledge of what it even looks like.
On getting a baby, raising it as a pet, then turning it into a breeder. That could be cruel. He may have NO idea what a girl bird is or even hurt her or her him in there frustration of him being a pet. Please rethink ALL of this. I am not against breeding, I will be a breeder my self one day, but only with the help of other breeders I have the ability to seek help from when needed. You sound like you have a young family. Enjoy it, when you add big birds to the mix you really have to spread your time out.

 

[Kinny]

Kinny, are you the person who posted that pic of a beautiful baby swaddled in a blue with the most adorable GCC on top? Congratulations on your baby!

Yes that was me all our birds are raised to be obedient and gentle with children. The gccs all try to fall asleep on my babys lap.. he smiles and tries to laugh.. so adorable! I'm careful though. And my 2 year old can handle them too, she's very smart and gentle and can handle small nips.. she's so good!

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I've never met a breeder who offered a refund on the deposit, most places will say "deposit non refundable". Does the breeder have a web site? Look over the fine print, if it doesn't say "deposit non nonrefundable" or something along those lines then your husband has a right to be angry.

I think you should get the weaned blue and gold if you want it, but not if you plan to one day breed him. If you want a breeding pair buy a already established pair, or a bonded pair. Hand raised birds do not make good parents, they are imprinted to people and often believe they are humans themselves.

I'm so happy everything was all right with your baby, you must of been so scared.

It does, however I was originally told if things were hard with the pregnancy I would get a refund or deposit could be held onto until the next batch.

Well I originally wanted him so that I could gain more hands on experience before I go throwing myself into breeding them. I've been told by a Jim Mckendry that I am more than capable of even raising my own macaws. I just tend to doubt myself until I actually do it, in which case I pleasantly surpise myself!

Ahh. That sounds right. Thank you, oh it was.. I am not keen on having another child after that experience...

That really sucks then Did you save paperwork that says that? Show it to him to "refresh the memory", and maybe apologies for what your husband said since you were having a very tough time.

It's bad costumer service for the breeder to go back on their word, I would be very unhappy if I was in your place. Not just about the money either, but because if someone says their going to do something they should follow through.

 

[Kinny]

I've never met a breeder who offered a refund on the deposit, most places will say "deposit non refundable". Does the breeder have a web site? Look over the fine print, if it doesn't say "deposit non nonrefundable" or something along those lines then your husband has a right to be angry.

I think you should get the weaned blue and gold if you want it, but not if you plan to one day breed him. If you want a breeding pair buy a already established pair, or a bonded pair. Hand raised birds do not make good parents, they are imprinted to people and often believe they are humans themselves.

I'm so happy everything was all right with your baby, you must of been so scared.

It does, however I was originally told if things were hard with the pregnancy I would get a refund or deposit could be held onto until the next batch.

Well I originally wanted him so that I could gain more hands on experience before I go throwing myself into breeding them. I've been told by a Jim Mckendry that I am more than capable of even raising my own macaws. I just tend to doubt myself until I actually do it, in which case I pleasantly surpise myself!

Ahh. That sounds right. Thank you, oh it was.. I am not keen on having another child after that experience...

That really sucks then Did you save paperwork that says that? Show it to him to "refresh the memory", and maybe apologies for what your husband said since you were having a very tough time.

It's bad costumer service for the breeder to go back on their word, I would be very unhappy if I was in your place. Not just about the money either, but because if someone says their going to do something they should follow through.

We discussed that part over the phone.. so its my word against his. And I doubt I'd win a court case if he's been breeding and raising for 35 years.. I think he may have made a slip up for once, because they have amazing reviews and are extremely experienced. So there must've been some sort of miscommunication. He did offer 400 refund, we paid 500, and I think my state made my husband become outraged. I've regretted not stopping him from sending that letter, because now its like as if Ive been a silly bottom. and with our new breeding/raising business I really don't want to ne on anyone's had side unnecessarily. Uh... Men's egos sometimes...

Exactly. he was being somewhat reasonable, but my husband got all logical and legal about it...

 

[JerseyWendy]

Kinny, firstly CONGRATS on your healthy baby boy! Oh my goodness, you had quite the scare there! Happy to hear everything worked out for all of you!!

Please, slow it down a notch.

If you want to ultimately raise macaws, you ought to look into a PROVEN pair. I know of the cost of big macs in your country. Please don't attempt to turn a pet bird into a breeder.

 

[Kinny]

Kinny, firstly CONGRATS on your healthy baby boy! Oh my goodness, you had quite the scare there! Happy to hear everything worked out for all of you!!

Please, slow it down a notch.

If you want to ultimately raise macaws, you ought to look into a PROVEN pair. I know of the cost of big macs in your country. Please don't attempt to turn a pet bird into a breeder.

Thank you! Quite.

Haha.

Mm they are pricey. No needs to worry about that now.. hubby came in, I didn't even get a chance to even speak my thoughts and feelings, and he said we will NEVER get a single macaw. So the letter I've been typing for the past 3 hours is now useless. He will no longer be finding out my feelings, thoughts, and reasons for them. Now he said only a breeding pair... Which has upset Je greatly, only because he promised me we could get a pet macaw last year or this year for certain.
And now he's saying never... I just hate it when people go back on their word. Im fine with the pair.. but I want more exp. First, and when you're promised one of your dreams, you get very excited, planning etc. And then the person takes it back... What a fun emotional wife he has.... Lol...

 

[Echo]

There is no way you should LOSE that deposit! Even if deposits are non refundable, you can apply it to another clutch/baby/breeder bird! $500 is a lot of money, and under the amount of stress that your husband and yourself were under, I am sure that the breeder would understand the "heated" letter your husband sent (even if unpleasant, understandable?).

 

[GinaF]

I'm not a breeder. I don't ever want to be a breeder. It's just not something that I'm interested in doing. Perhaps that's because I spent years in rescue trying to rehabilitate animals that other people messed up with, failed to do their research on or unexpected life changes.

There have been times in my life where I've wondered if I had gotten in over my head. Times when my life did a complete turnaround and things seemed bleak. We all have hard times. However, I've tried not to set myself or the animals in my care up for failure.

What I'm saying is, you seem overwhelmed at the moment. I can't say I blame you. I've watch 2 of my 4 children go to NICU. One of which was 8.5 weeks premature, weighed 3lbs 2oz and literally stopped breathing right in my arms when he was 27 hours old. So I understand where your head is and what you're going through. I'm also aware of the fact that the timing to take on anything big, especially breeding big macs, wasn't right. If my mac wasn't over 50, I probably would have considered rehoming her at that time.

This is just my opinion and I'm honestly not trying to be negative, but perhaps this isn't the time to start breeding such a large, demanding parrot. You have a 2 year old and a 3 month old that, collectively, are going to need A LOT of your time and attention in the next coming months/years. However, don't bury your dream. Use this time to find a good mentor that will allow you to help and participate in hand weaning macs and gain some experience so that when the time is right for you, you can become the breeder you admire so much today. This would be a good time to learn, plan and save for the breeding pair you'll need to be a success. Pets are pets. They don't make good breeders. And ultimately, you're responsible for every living creature you put on this planet. Make sure your life is conducive to following through with their care long after they're adopted.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Thank you Gina! Thank you for giving us a piece of your own and very personal history, and THANK YOU for actually triggering that thought of "am I doing the right thing" here!!!

I think this is something EVERY parrot guardian should ask themselves many times over and over again before making another lifetime commitment.

 

[GinaF]

I guess maybe I'm sensitive because I've spent so much time, energy and money trying to fix other peoples mistakes. So if I come across, harsh, I apologize. I honestly don't mean to.

When you breed something... anything, you're not just making a commitment to the parents, but to their offspring as well. A breeders responsibility should be to ensure their care until the end of their lifespan, but many don't. They begin breeding for profit, turning out clutch after clutch after clutch, making mistakes all over the place and creating the need for rescues and sanctuaries. A good breeder will know all aspects of breeding, raising, training, weaning and did I mention training? A good breeder will recognize the medical needs of the breeding pair and ensure they're adequately supplemented during the entire process and beyond, if necessary. A good breeder will follow through with adoptive homes and educate them so that they can continue to raise the pet they were hopeful to acquire. A good breeder will be there long after money has exchanged hands... 5, 10, 20 years later and always be willing to assist in locating another placement if necessary. A good breeder will know that a pet isn't a breeder and a breeder isn't a pet and how often a clutch can be safely raised without endangering or depleting the parents. A good breeder doesn't make much, if any of a profit. They breed for preservation and the love of the species.

 

[ShellyBorg]

Gina, thats why I am not breeding yet. I do breed goats and I just got back one of the first ones I every breed. She has been attacked by a dog and is now "worthless" to the owner. She is a great animal and I will fined her a place where she will be a loved grass eater till her end days. I know I am not set just just yet to take this on with the species I want to work with so I wait and plan till the time is right.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

hubby came in, I didn't even get a chance to even speak my thoughts and feelings, and he said we will NEVER get a single macaw.

that's mean that he wouldn't let you speak your thoughts and feelings, he shouldn't be the one to decide fully whether you two can have something or not. Is he just really irritated with the whole situation?

 

[Abigal7]

Okay, I will state I never breed birds but from what I understand if you want pet quality birds that people will give good reviews on then you will have to put in the work. The lady that owns the private pet store in my town says anyone can put two birds togeather and have a lot of babies but that does not mean they are healthy and does not mean they will be tame (which takes work). She only sells budgies, lovebirds and cockatiels at her pet store and she said she will only buy from a licensed breeder.I should point out people generally expect birds from breeders to be tame. Maybe I am assuming things but you want a tame macaw while your husband sees a profit (not trying to sound harsh). There is nothing wrong with breeding birds if he really wants to. I suggest he go talk to macaw breeders. If he ever practiced weaning a bird (especially a macaw) he will learn how scary it is and worry about what can go wrong. If he wants to breed macaws he might consider this breeder that he is mad at is someone who can give him good advice. I am just assuming (and going by what my mother goes through when raising dogs) but I have to conclude dog breeders have it easier then people that breed parrots. As I said only going by what I read I am assuming dogs tame easier and wean easier. But I could be wrong. I also would not make a pet bird into a breeder.