Bad Macaw bite please help

[Birdman666]

First of all, this is All my fault. This morning my daughter let him out before breakfast and on the floor upstairs, he can be testy upstairs, to many things to hide behind. I didn't use a towel because he has been really good lately. It happened so fast, as he was stepping up and he bit me on the index finger and wouldn't let go. I tried to drop him on the ground. He was hanging from my finger and applying more pressure. I didn't think I would have a finger left.

Again it was all my fault. So my question is how do you drop them on the floor(as I read you should do when they bite) if they are biting you?

Thanks for any advice.
View attachment 10029

Sorry about that!

Was he hanging from your finger, to try to keep from going down?

What was the dynamic?

 

[Birdman666]

the part thats scary is the macaws holding on. I don't think i have seen that nor do i want to.

usually they don't hang on. They bite and they are done.

I would rather be bit by a macaw vs. One that hooks in and then grinds like some do.

that would be an amazon bite!!!

 

[Birdbrain91]

Yes he was hanging on and his feet were dangling in the air. It happened so fast I dropped in pain to the floor then he realsed my finger.

So he stepped up nice then bit me I yanked my arm down like chopping wood. He started to loose his grip so he bit agian and applied more pressure because he didn't want to fall and I didn't have a good reaction.

 

[Birdman666]

Then my guess is he only latched on to keep himself from falling on, and at that point he was hanging on for dear life... which is why you got the worst of it...

Could have been worse. Years ago my conure inflicted a similar injury when he flew from his shower perch, to that *very special* shower perch closer to the water, where he wanted to be.

Needless to say, those sharp pointy conure nails, first thing in the morning made that particular shower perch collapse...

And there was Demitre, hanging by his beak from the end of the thing, flapping like mad!

I didn't wring his little neck either! (But it hurt!)

 

[Birdman666]

Yes he was hanging on and his feet were dangling in the air. It happened so fast I dropped in pain to the floor then he realsed my finger.

So he stepped up nice then bit me I yanked my arm down like chopping wood. He started to loose his grip so he bit agian and applied more pressure because he didn't want to fall and I didn't have a good reaction.

Yeah, it's got to be one fluid motion. Swipe the beak away, and down you go pal!

 

[BirdyMomma]

Wow. That's horrible. I'm so sorry that happened between you two

Seeing as how all of the experts are viewing this thread, I have a question with regards to biting, and bite pressure in Macaws, if no one minds.

We've been working on bite pressure for a while now. Wingnut will beak me, and I will rub his head as long as the pressure is acceptable. Once the pressure becomes inappropriate, I stop the affection and say "No" or "easy". He will always relent, and just happily gnaw on my hand.

The issue now, is that all he wants to do is chew on me. If he is on me or near me, he wants my hand in his mouth. And he will still just flat out bite my boyfriend or my mom.

Is this normal? What can I do to stop it?

 

[MikeyTN]

Lola does that to me and I hide my hands from her. She eventually quit cause I told her no and the hand hiding.

 

[mtdoramike]

Taking a whole finger off is a myth. One time I had to take Jody to the vet down by my sister as her nails turned into needles overnight I swear.

I think every vet she has been to over the years is surprised just how long and loud she screams for the whole exam. Getting her out of the crate she flips onto her back and the fight is on.

This Vet did not have anyone else to hold her so I did. Don't know how, but before I knew it she had grabbed onto the index finger on my left hand. If I remember correctly she was in the towel already so my finger was the only thing to clamp onto and that proved to me that biting off fingers (at least in an adult) will not happen. Now if it is a baby, that might be a different story.

MYTH, Uuuuuuh Tell that to my mobile bird groomer who lost the tip of her index finger to a Macaw, which BIT THE TIP OF HER FINGER OFF CLEAN BONE AND ALL! So no, that wasn't no myth. I saw the damage a few days later. The finger was able to be saved and reattached. It was nasty and I'm sure the nail was probably not going to come back either. An Eclectus can break chicken bones with their beak and they don't have the beak hardness of a macaw nor the bit strength.

So folks need to consider these things. Myths usually come from some sort of facts.

 

[Birdman666]

Wow. That's horrible. I'm so sorry that happened between you two

Seeing as how all of the experts are viewing this thread, I have a question with regards to biting, and bite pressure in Macaws, if no one minds.

We've been working on bite pressure for a while now. Wingnut will beak me, and I will rub his head as long as the pressure is acceptable. Once the pressure becomes inappropriate, I stop the affection and say "No" or "easy". He will always relent, and just happily gnaw on my hand.

The issue now, is that all he wants to do is chew on me. If he is on me or near me, he wants my hand in his mouth. And he will still just flat out bite my boyfriend or my mom.

Is this normal? What can I do to stop it?

Scarlett's are the beakiest... But Militaries are very close behind. You are describing "beakiness."

I would say its normal for a military to want to do this.

They like to put their beaks on things... and as long as he controls his bite pressure and doesn't destroy things, I would let him.

The stuff with your boyfriend/mom is a pair bond thing. He is beginning to over bond and needs to get out where he interacts more with strangers...

Take him to the park and just sit with him outside...

 

[ZoeS]

Then my guess is he only latched on to keep himself from falling on, and at that point he was hanging on for dear life... which is why you got the worst of it...

Could have been worse. Years ago my conure inflicted a similar injury when he flew from his shower perch, to that *very special* shower perch closer to the water, where he wanted to be.

Needless to say, those sharp pointy conure nails, first thing in the morning made that particular shower perch collapse...

And there was Demitre, hanging by his beak from the end of the thing, flapping like mad!

I didn't wring his little neck either! (But it hurt!)

Woah... I don't even know what to say about that!

 

[Birdman666]

The way I see it, if my greenwing can bite a hard wood block an inch thick in half, she can bite clean through an arm bone...

The fact that these injuries are NOT very common actually speaks to how gentle they are by nature...

But that beak is not something to be trifled with! A non-bite pressure trained macaw has to be respected... the same as if you were handling a hawk, or an eagle, or even an owl...

They CAN do serious damage. They generally won't. But it is possible.

 

[ZoeS]

Is there a documented case of someone having their finger or arm severed by a parrot? I don't think it's as simple as comparing wood to bone because they are very different. "Live" bone is not like cooked bone and is much stronger, and more malleable, and is surrounded by other "soft-but-strong" tissues that in my mind would prevent a clean sever. I could imagine a bone being dented or crushed, or a finger being "torn" off if the bird somehow bore town and twisted the limb, however.

There isn't much reliable research but the bite force of a large-beaked parrot is estimated to be around that of a dog - which can certainly remove limbs, but that is the result of bite, twist, yank, etc, as opposed to a quite bite and quick, clean removal of the limb.

 

[Birdman666]

Is there a documented case of someone having their finger or arm severed by a parrot? I don't think it's as simple as comparing wood to bone because they are very different. "Live" bone is not like cooked bone and is much stronger, and more malleable, and is surrounded by other "soft-but-strong" tissues that in my mind would prevent a clean sever. I could imagine a bone being dented or crushed, or a finger being "torn" off if the bird somehow bore town and twisted the limb, however.

There isn't much reliable research but the bite force of a large-beaked parrot is estimated to be around that of a dog - which can certainly remove limbs, but that is the result of bite, twist, yank, etc, as opposed to a quite bite and quick, clean removal of the limb.

It's happened more than once, I am sure.

Here is a link to a doctor who does surgical reattachments of fingers, and it mentions macaws and CAGS specifically as birds who have the power to amputate:

http://www.thehandtreatmentcenter.com/infections/

CAGs have a beak like a scissors. So do eckies. So do amazons. Amazons have that egg tooth that they use for grinding. It's perfect for stripping flesh as well...

So, ummm, yeah... this is SO NOT A MYTH!!! And I am sure this is not the only facility in the US that does. It was just the first one that came up on Google. There are hundreds... which means there are probably hundreds of people who need medical treatment as a result of bird bites!!

Here is one about a lawsuit from and unattended toddler who lost a finger to a hotel's B&G. While I seriously doubt the bird swooped down on the child, I bet the kid stuck his finger in the cage when Mom & Dad weren't looking...

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/03/02/25161.htm

NOT MYTH!

ALWAYS RESPECT THE BEAK!!! (NOT FEAR. RESPECT. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. FEAR ONLY GETS YOU BIT... )

They are gentle by nature. But they WILL protect themselves from perceived threats. They WILL defend their territory (sometimes to the death.) They can and do displacement bite when something really scary or annoying happens around them.

And the way I see it, these are training issues that it is our responsibility to deal with, and warn others about.

Just because they can, doesn't mean they will.

Gentle by nature can win out.

 

[ZoeS]

It's happened more than once, I am sure.

Here is a link to a doctor who does surgical reattachments of fingers, and it mentions macaws and CAGS specifically as birds who have the power to amputate:

Infections and bite wounds | The Hand Treatment Center - New Jersey/New York Hand Surgeon

CAGs have a beak like a scissors. So do eckies. So do amazons. Amazons have that egg tooth that they use for grinding. It's perfect for stripping flesh as well...

So, ummm, yeah... this is SO NOT A MYTH!!! And I am sure this is not the only facility in the US that does. It was just the first one that came up on Google. There are hundreds... which means there are probably hundreds of people who need medical treatment as a result of bird bites!!

Okay but saying it can happen isn't the same thing as it actually happening. I am not suggesting to not respect the beak because obviously it can cause significant damage regardless of whether a limb is actually severed - but seeking a realistic idea of possible damage is not disrespecting or making light of the beak.

Requiring medical treatment, requiring amputation due to extensive damage, stripped flesh etc is not the same thing as being able to sever an arm bone in one bite.

I'm not even saying it's not possible - I'm just questioning the assertion that it is possible (or remotely / realistically possible) because all evidence seems anecdotal.

 

[ZoeS]

The second source you posted is interesting. It would seem fully possible with a year-old child (not that I ever had any doubt) or through a knuckle or small joint - which also seems reasonable. Still a far cry from severing an adult's arm in two through the bone - but semantics at this point!

 

[Birdman666]

This from my toos:

All About Cockatoos - MyToos.com

Yes it can and does happen. I consider My toos a bit biased... but I have seen it.

And I wasn't saying my macaw could sever my arm, but she should probably put her beak clean through the fleshy part, and break the bone, if she were so inclined.

 

[Mattroma]

I heard a story of a breeder that entered his green wings enclosure to check their nest box. on of the birds allegedly defended the eggs and bit the man and the neck severing an artery. tend to think this was an urban legend but their beaks do deserve the utmost respect.

 

[thekarens]

Actually I wouldn't find severing the neck artery implausible at all since that isn't that far from the skin. If they struck out to defend and caught it with that beak it doesn't seem far fetched to me.

 

[Birdman666]

That's how the cat got it.... Severed paw inside the cage. When the cat fell foward the macaw got the cat by the throat and chomped down hard, severing an artery.

But I think that might have been a major new story if it were true... man killed by bird. So that one I think is Myth.

But I sure wouldn't want to be the one going into a macaw flight with Dad in protect the babies mode...

And sorry, but we seem to have gotten off the topic...

Maybe we should get back on topic.

 

[JewelsinMo]

This was an extremely interesting post -I learned a lot, however could you be specific in what you do to train not to bite, how to avoid a bite, and beak pressure training? For us "newbies" this would be a tremendous help from all of you with vast experience.
I have an 8 month old Severe Macaw named Marty. Have had him about three weeks. He is pretty good, but at times he will lunge with beak open. He has also found out that he has a tongue, and wants to use it extensively.

All of your help and advice is very much appreciated!
Sincerely,
JewelsinMo