B/g pair.. Deformed feet.. Any suggestions?

[plumsmum2005]

They are adorable babies, such a shame to see. If this is indeed deformity then there needs to be some fact finding to avoid any future ones being born the same. It needs getting to the bottom of for the birds sake @Lakermatt.

 

[Kentuckienne]

we have both been super busy.. he is a friend.. no online stuff.. I just went over there. he has had perfectly good babies before. I have seen them. why would he separate the parents? when he had seen that there feet were wrong he immediately pulled the babies from the nest..

Three reasons to separate the parents:

1. If it was a genetic defect, then these parrots should not breed again. It's not fair to the future babies - to risk creating more crippled parrots just to make money.

2. If it was not a genetic defect, then the feet were damaged after hatching, and the breeder is not taking responsibility for that. Dumping the babies on a rescue? That's not ethical. A breeder is responsible for the birds they bring into the world. They don't just get to make the money off the healthy ones and dump the others onto the charity of others. Someone who does this values the money and doesn't care about the welfare of the birds.

3.They should not be rewarded with money for this flagrant refusal to take responsibility for what they caused. Because yes, they put the parents together and took the steps that caused the babies to be born. This problem is the breeder's fault, even if he didn't bite the toes himself, and it's his responsibility to be sure the babies have good homes and happy lives.

 

[SilverSage]

He needs to separate them to prevent future "deformities" though I'm convinced they were bitten off.

He shouldn't be breeding ANYTHING if he can't behave responsibly and ethically.


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[LordTriggs]

we have both been super busy.. he is a friend.. no online stuff.. I just went over there. he has had perfectly good babies before. I have seen them. why would he separate the parents? when he had seen that there feet were wrong he immediately pulled the babies from the nest..

So it took him more than a day to notice they had no toes? That just proves that they were bitten off then. It's not exactly hard to notice part of their feet missing.

You separate the breeding pair to stop them producing more deformed babies. like we have all said. multiple times.

I just find it a little strange as soon as we probe into how close a friend you are that suddenly your schedule drops for you to go round... Seems a little convenient to me. Seriously none of us would judge you if you were to say this is a random person you met. Hell we'd praise you for being open to accepting a pair of birds with disabilities into your home and working to make them happy.

Once again our anger is at the breeder for not being responsible and honestly for being for lack of better words, a heartless uncaring monster only interested in the money that macaws can give them, the sole reason that they want to dump them at a rescue is because they can't get money and they are having to spend money on them. We've all seen this before.

 

[SailBoat]

we have both been super busy.. he is a friend.. no online stuff.. I just went over there. he has had perfectly good babies before. I have seen them. why would he separate the parents? when he had seen that there feet were wrong he immediately pulled the babies from the nest..

Okay, clearly whatever is said by anyone that has commented thus far holds little to no value. So:

- take them home
- fail to get CITES required documents (birth and transfer of ownership)
- fail to have them seen by an CAV (Certified Avian Vet)

But: Be ready to take in more of your 'friends' rejects. Since, clearly he has no interest in properly care for the birds he has (i.e. a 'Good' Breeder would have already had them to a CAV and would already have available CITES documents for them).

Hey, cause that's what Friends do, right?

 

[LordTriggs]

we have both been super busy.. he is a friend.. no online stuff.. I just went over there. he has had perfectly good babies before. I have seen them. why would he separate the parents? when he had seen that there feet were wrong he immediately pulled the babies from the nest..

Okay, clearly whatever is said by anyone that has commented thus far holds little to no value. So:

- take them home
- fail to get CITIES required documents (birth and transfer of ownership)
- fail to have them seen by an CAV (Certified Avian Vet)

But: Be ready to take in more of your 'friends' rejects. Since, clearly he has no interest in properly care for the birds he has (i.e. a 'Good' Breeder would have already had them to a CAV and would already have available CITIES documents for them).

Hey, cause that's what Friends do, right?

get arrested for illegal trafficking of endangered species

wish I could have as good a friend

 

[SilverSage]

Ok the OP is hopefully still around;

You can tell we are frustrated. REALLY UPSET in fact. But not at you. We hope you adopt them and we want to support you in that (or at least I do), it's your "freind" and his irresponsible treatment of his birds, the law, and you that has our blood boiling.

I'm a breeder myself and this sort of behavior is what gives breeders a bad name.


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[Teddscau]

SailBoat, you've gotta stop calling it "CITIES". You're going to end up confusing people, especially non-English speakers. It's called CITES .

Oh, and Lakermatt, try not to get upset. I know the others have said some harsh things, although, not unwarranted. On the surface, the breeder DOES deserve to be chewed out like he has. But we don't know the whole story. Maybe he truly cares about his birds, and this whole situation is just an unfortunate mistake. Maybe we've been too harsh on your friend.

Anyways, assuming they just have deformed feet, and it's not some sort of messed up virus or something that's affecting other aspects of their bodies, they should definitely be able to live happy, healthy lives. You just have to keep an eye on their feet to make sure they don't get sores, and make sure they exercise their legs and maintain a full range of motion. Providing platform perches is also a good idea so they can rest their legs and feet once in a while.

 

[Lakermatt]

HI All, please know this.. you guys haven't offended me whatsoever... Im just trying to help my buddy. and you don't have to put quotations next to friend... LOL.. he really is a friend of mine.. I just don't go over to the guys house everyday.. he wanted me to ask these questions, as he has never ran into a situation like this with any of his birds.. he seen the eggs crack, he was there the whole time.. he wouldn't lie to me on that. maybe he is not the most responsible breeder? I cant judge him on that.. I am just trying to get him answers and me answers.. I want to take on this challenge, but then I am SUPER afraid of this challenge.. I just seen a pic of a GW with no feet and no wings perched on his nubs!!

 

[Teddscau]

Well, assuming you're capable and willing to take on two healthy, not deformed blue and gold macaws, I don't see any reason to think you wouldn't be able to care for two special needs birds. Although it might seem serious (well, I'm not saying it isn't serious), they shouldn't have trouble adapting to deformed feet. Plus, most of their feet are intact. It would be worse if their beaks were deformed.

 

[bigfellasdad]

After reading this thread last night i must admit to feeling troubled. Watching my CAG her feet are in constant use and i cant see how she would survive without toes.

How can these birds :-
preen there necks/head
Hold food to eat
Move around in general
Climb
Assuming they wont be clipped id imagine many accidents taking off and landing in flight

Perches cant be round, probably flat???

Id imagine a huge reliance on the beak so the owner would surely be receiving many bites
Surely their quality of life will be much reduced, feeling sad

 

[plumsmum2005]

HI All, please know this.. you guys haven't offended me whatsoever... Im just trying to help my buddy. and you don't have to put quotations next to friend... LOL.. he really is a friend of mine.. I just don't go over to the guys house everyday.. he wanted me to ask these questions, as he has never ran into a situation like this with any of his birds.. he seen the eggs crack, he was there the whole time.. he wouldn't lie to me on that. maybe he is not the most responsible breeder? I cant judge him on that.. I am just trying to get him answers and me answers.. I want to take on this challenge, but then I am SUPER afraid of this challenge.. I just seen a pic of a GW with no feet and no wings perched on his nubs!!

This needs to be got to the bottom of, it would be totally irresponsible for it to happen again. Your friend sounds a bit ill informed to me? Ask him to not let the parents breed again and perhaps have some tests done/seek AV assistance. If it is genetic deformity then there are questions to seek answers to. If it is behavioural then perhaps the parents need a break or should not breed again? Ask your friend to join here, will learn loads, our barks are worse than our bites LOL
Would it be better if these two babies can be homed together, my thinking is they may well become accustomed to helping each other with some things WDYT?

 

[Carl_Power]

Awww bless them.

I guess its sad they have deformed feet for whatever reason. I really hope it was just a birth defect but the guys on the forum will know a lot more than I do.

More love and patience would be the best way to proceed. Everything will be slower without having talons. You can get wooden platform perches they can stand on but these birds will have to be really catered for now and be able to travel around the cage as easily as possible, so lots platforms and soft rope perches for sure so when they sleep their feet wont be taking too much pressure and getting ripped up from having less strength.

Its frowned upon but maybe happy huts to sleep in would be a great idea. My Parrot loves his but I check it every day multiple times and cut any threads out asap and replace it monthly. Checking these regularly is a huge must.

They will need walkways to get to food and water and their beds ect, maybe in like a zig zag rotation so its fun for them. They can climb well with just their beaks but it may be too much strain on their feet cage climbing so much I think.

Go for what's gonna be easiest for them and put yourself in their position, if you were in a cage with no toes, what would be easiest to get around and make it fun if you can x

 

[LordTriggs]

Yes I will iterate again no anger towards yourself. But that kind of heartlessness is sickening to me. Not even the fact the toes are gone, just the concept of dumping them at a rescue instead of even trying with them. But whatever, I'm not gonna harp on about it. It's just going to be circular, ultimately we aren't able to see everything on our end here.

It's definitely viable to care for birds without proper feet and for them to be extremely happy animals. I was asked a while back if I could take in a grey with a bone deformity resulting in her legs being useless, but she was incredibly sweet and loved people. Unfortunately I really wasn't the person to take her on though. She now has a nice forever home though. They just had flat perches in her cage, a couple rope ones and some ladders to move between different perches.

If you want to take them on you'd be doing something incredible for them. I'd go for a wider and deeper cage with less height so they can move around easily and not have as much fear of a fall.

Just make sure you get all the necessary CITES documentation from your friend before you take them in. The last thing you want to happen is get arrested for illegal trafficking which with endangered species like Macaws could carry some severe punishments

 

[Lakermatt]

good Morning all, I will definitely have him join this website.. I would be taking both in and NOT separating. that was his wish and that is my expectation. that's just not fair in my opinion, as they have the same disability. I only think they would flourish being able to grow up together... my anxiety is not being able to care for them like they possibly need.... I want them to be able to sit on my shoulder, I want them to play in a tree stand in my living room, I want them to be able to eat with their feet, I want them able to preen themselves correctly... I guess what I am saying is I want them to be "normal"?? if that sounds right?

 

[Lakermatt]

here is some closeups... don't know if this helps or not... this may give some people (myself included) some hope for normalcy...

 

[BeatriceC]

Caring for a disabled bird is difficult, time consuming, and heartbreaking. Do a search for my threads on Charlotte (originally Scarlett), my disabled macaw, including the last thread, where I announced her death. In spite of going to great lengths to make her environment safe, her disabilities still caused her death. Her balance was bad, and in the end, she fell, or wobbled, enough to bruise her neck, which caused enough internal bleeding to kill her. This in spite of spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars modifying her cage to be safer for her, and in spite of having two full time adults at home, so she was rarely alone. And when you put that much work into them, it's even more heartbreaking when they die. This is what you will be facing if you take in disabled birds. I'm not saying don't do it, but make sure you go into it knowing how difficult it's going to be.

 

[Lakermatt]

good morning all, I thought I would share these pics this morning, he sent these to me last night... he put in a perch for them to see what they did... simply amazing!! I really have hope for these guys... I REALLY want them in my families life!!

 

[SailBoat]

After reading this thread last night i must admit to feeling troubled. Watching my CAG her feet are in constant use and i cant see how she would survive without toes.

How can these birds :-
preen there necks/head
Hold food to eat
Move around in general
Climb
Assuming they wont be clipped id imagine many accidents taking off and landing in flight

Perches cant be round, probably flat???

Id imagine a huge reliance on the beak so the owner would surely be receiving many bites
Surely their quality of life will be much reduced, feeling sad

Thank-you, for asking these very pointed questions!

The reason that it is so important to have a CAV (Certified Avian Vet) involved as early as possible is to determine what caused the Handicap and what means can be taken to further prevent it! If examination and testing cannot determine the cause, extensive DNA testing is required. Regardless, the mating pair needs to be separated, until a clear determination is made. Anything less is heartless and selfish!

Now to your question: Without extensive and knowledge help to provide the needed information (i.e. Regular Visits to a CAV) this set of Parrots will have great difficulty on their own. As a pair that can help each other. However, for them to live a happy, healthy life will require an engaged owner that has the resources, commitment and time to provide the support they will need for all of their very long life (40 to 70+ years)!

I share your concerns regarding this pair.

 

[Mindy]

Seems like the obvious solution would be to take them to an avian vet. Were it me I would tell my friend that we're all going together.
The vet can advise your friend on what measures should be taken to avoid future birds from having this issue, the vet can answer all of your questions about their needs.
Is there some reason in particular that they haven't seen one?