A Horrifying Morning

This only happen to me once and it scared me big time when I caught it. And I took care of it but I had to push it back in 3 times for it to work. But unfortunately due to the damage it cause they should not ever lay eggs again otherwise it will kill them like it did to my girl. Found her on the bottom of the aviary coming home from work one day, it was very sad....
 
thats my biggest fear with munch--she is a chronic layer and absolutely nothing stops her.

shes doing okay now, sleeping. i hanfed her, she took 4 ccs of liquified harrisons total today.
 
Egg laying issues are what horrifies me into only wanting males. I usually hear this in the smaller species. How rare are these "female" complications in larger birds (medium sized parrots)? If the bird has a good diet, etc. I wonder if this is rarer in bigger birds? I know it happens to breeders, but that's maybe because they're laying more and regularly?
I like a female parrots "general" personality, but am afraid of egg laying :52:
 
RavensGryf said:
Egg laying issues are what horrifies me into only wanting males. I usually hear this in the smaller species. How rare are these "female" complications in larger birds (medium sized parrots)? If the bird has a good diet, etc. I wonder if this is rarer in bigger birds? I know it happens to breeders, but that's maybe because they're laying more and regularly?
I like a female parrots "general" personality, but am afraid of egg laying :52:
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i have 2 female small parrots and only one lays eggs. not all do. i was recently wondering about the larger parrot thing, and my husband brought up a point.


he thinks maybe because the smaller birds are picked off by predators more in the wild than the larger birds, so theyre more likely to lay because their lives in the wild are potentially shorter than the bigger birds. it makes sense, i mean, pass on your genes before you're gobbled up. you do see some larger female birds lay eggs, but its not as common as the little birds i find. lovebirds and cockatiels seem to be the worst for chronic laying.

that being said, prolapse can happen in males too--from obstruction or constipation. so this problem may be more likely to happen with female birds but its not only seen in females.
 
DallyTsuka said:
i have 2 female small parrots and only one lays eggs. not all do. i was recently wondering about the larger parrot thing, and my husband brought up a point.


he thinks maybe because the smaller birds are picked off by predators more in the wild than the larger birds, so theyre more likely to lay because their lives in the wild are potentially shorter than the bigger birds. it makes sense, i mean, pass on your genes before you're gobbled up. you do see some larger female birds lay eggs, but its not as common as the little birds i find. lovebirds and cockatiels seem to be the worst for chronic laying.

that being said, prolapse can happen in males too--from obstruction or constipation. so this problem may be more likely to happen with female birds but its not only seen in females.
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That's an interesting theory! Makes sense, and might also be why small birds tend to have a larger clutch, and the very largest parrots lay maybe two.

btw... I wanted to tell you that I enjoy reading your posts. You lay things out in a clear easy to understand manner when answering posts, and otherwise have interesting things to say :)
 
well, there's some good news and some bad news.


bad news first. Munch laid another egg just about 10 minutes ago.


good news, she didn't prolapse from it and seems generally okay.

she laid it off a perch and broke it, but thats typical of her.
 
Awww poor little Munch. Sorry about another egg but glad she not prolapse again. Sending you both best wishes and will keep you in my thoughts.
 
you were probably sitting there watching intently while she laid that egg....holding your breath the whole time, praying nothing serious was going to happen....I know I would be.

great news that she didn't prolapse again, a huge relief....at least for now. :)
 
i just fed her 2 ccs of liquified harrisons (mixed with carrot juice, hence the orange stain)


she takes the feedings well, but i have to hold her or she runs from the syringe lol but once you feed her she takes it in her beak and eats it easily.

nonetheless, it is messy and she still sulks after







 
I have Munchlax envy! She's so cute!!!

I can't help wondering if there's not some hormonal treatment (like chemical sterilisation) that could help Munch? Or even a laparascopic removal of her ovaries? If she's going to keep laying and prolapsing, you'll be a nervous wreck, Casey. :(
 
I am so glad she has not prolapsed again. Am praying that is over!
 
Betrisher said:
I have Munchlax envy! She's so cute!!!

I can't help wondering if there's not some hormonal treatment (like chemical sterilisation) that could help Munch? Or even a laparascopic removal of her ovaries? If she's going to keep laying and prolapsing, you'll be a nervous wreck, Casey. :(
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wish lupron was an option, but far too pricey here to do every single month.

and as for a spay, i totally wish, i'd have it done. but its exceedingly rare for them to perform such a surgery on a tiny bird like a lovebird. its a very risky surgery for the little guys :(





but i have been discussing with a long time breeder and expert, she suspects the issue may be a vitamin A deficiency which causes the egg to stick to the tissue inside, which caused the prolapse.


luckily, ive been upping her vitamin A intake since this incident by using the carrot juice as her handfeeding formula (instead of water). been soaking harrisons superfine in it and liquifying it and handfeeding it to her with a syringe.

the breeder (same lady who wrote the article i posted on here for prolapse) wants to see if upping her vitamin A makes a difference.
 
I hope that makes all the difference! Munch is so lucky to have you:)
 
Good, I really hope the increase in vitamin A does it! Thank goodness she's still okay after today. Munch is a total beauty queen! Adorable AND really nice coloration.:D
 
Reading this thread just YANKS on my heartstrings so hard. I lost my beloved, sweet little cockatiel to a prolapse caused by constant egg-laying.

If you CAN get her into a vet sometime in the future, do. The prolapse doesn't look like it's all that bad right now, but it can get so, so much worse. The first time Tsuki prolapsed, it was a lump maybe the size of a marble or a little less. She had a stitch put in her cloaca for a week or so to prevent further prolapsing or damage.

The second time it happened, it was... well, a lot bigger than a marble. More like a shooter marble, maybe. A fair portion of my little buddy's organs were outside her. We had to rush her to the nearest emergency vet, the only one open on Sundays... and it was an hour and a half away. She survived the drive, they tucked everything back in the best they could, but the damage was too severe. She was perfectly fine the day before, and when we got up to check on her, she was like that. It was, I believe, over a year since the first prolapse had happened. We'd spent that whole year trying to get her to stop laying.

I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone's bird, nor would I want any person to have to see their bird in that state. It was terrible. I still have nightmares sometimes, wondering what I could have done differently. I had never heard of vitamin A being a potential problem! I hope that helps. :C One egg a month sounds like it could be manageable. My birdie would lay double or triple clutches at a time, sometimes more, and rarely went more than a week or two without laying. Even hormone injections (at $100/month!!!) only curbed the behavior.

I was in touch with a specialist about getting her spayed, but they eventually decided they wouldn't do it, as she probably wouldn't survive the procedure.

I can try to suggest all the things I've thought of since Tsuki died, all the things I wished I'd done differently. It sounds like you're already doing a lot, though.

Photoperiod is important. Longer hours of darkness can help curb the hormones that drive egg-laying.
ANYTHING you can do to knock the bird out of her comfort zone a little can help with nestiness, too. I rearranged Tsuki's cage and moved it all over the house, but she was unflappable (bird pun unintended). After a day or so, she'd be back to it. Putting the cage outside helped, but that's only good for summer. And my vet didn't want me to do that without a mosquito net because of West Nile. Before the net we ordered made it to us, she had died.

I wish I'd gotten her a new cage. I don't know how long that would have helped. But it might have made a difference. I don't know if a sleep cage would have done much for my bird, but it could be worth a try.

Teaching foraging skills might also give a bird something else to be focused on.

Good luck with Munch. She's so cute. Egg laying is SO stressful to deal with. I told the breeder I'm in touch with that this time I won't have a female. Maybe someday, if it were a larger bird less prone to this. But for now, I just can't even run a small risk of going through that again. It's awful, and I totally sympathize with you. Keep us updated and know I'm sending my best wishes to you!!
 
I hope everything you are doing for Munch works for her very soon. She's a beautiful girl and so fortunate to have you to care for her.
 
Kisota said:
Reading this thread just YANKS on my heartstrings so hard. I lost my beloved, sweet little cockatiel to a prolapse caused by constant egg-laying.

If you CAN get her into a vet sometime in the future, do. The prolapse doesn't look like it's all that bad right now, but it can get so, so much worse. The first time Tsuki prolapsed, it was a lump maybe the size of a marble or a little less. She had a stitch put in her cloaca for a week or so to prevent further prolapsing or damage.

The second time it happened, it was... well, a lot bigger than a marble. More like a shooter marble, maybe. A fair portion of my little buddy's organs were outside her. We had to rush her to the nearest emergency vet, the only one open on Sundays... and it was an hour and a half away. She survived the drive, they tucked everything back in the best they could, but the damage was too severe. She was perfectly fine the day before, and when we got up to check on her, she was like that. It was, I believe, over a year since the first prolapse had happened. We'd spent that whole year trying to get her to stop laying.

I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone's bird, nor would I want any person to have to see their bird in that state. It was terrible. I still have nightmares sometimes, wondering what I could have done differently. I had never heard of vitamin A being a potential problem! I hope that helps. :C One egg a month sounds like it could be manageable. My birdie would lay double or triple clutches at a time, sometimes more, and rarely went more than a week or two without laying. Even hormone injections (at $100/month!!!) only curbed the behavior.

I was in touch with a specialist about getting her spayed, but they eventually decided they wouldn't do it, as she probably wouldn't survive the procedure.

I can try to suggest all the things I've thought of since Tsuki died, all the things I wished I'd done differently. It sounds like you're already doing a lot, though.

Photoperiod is important. Longer hours of darkness can help curb the hormones that drive egg-laying.
ANYTHING you can do to knock the bird out of her comfort zone a little can help with nestiness, too. I rearranged Tsuki's cage and moved it all over the house, but she was unflappable (bird pun unintended). After a day or so, she'd be back to it. Putting the cage outside helped, but that's only good for summer. And my vet didn't want me to do that without a mosquito net because of West Nile. Before the net we ordered made it to us, she had died.

I wish I'd gotten her a new cage. I don't know how long that would have helped. But it might have made a difference. I don't know if a sleep cage would have done much for my bird, but it could be worth a try.

Teaching foraging skills might also give a bird something else to be focused on.

Good luck with Munch. She's so cute. Egg laying is SO stressful to deal with. I told the breeder I'm in touch with that this time I won't have a female. Maybe someday, if it were a larger bird less prone to this. But for now, I just can't even run a small risk of going through that again. It's awful, and I totally sympathize with you. Keep us updated and know I'm sending my best wishes to you!!
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i am sorry for your loss :(

we cover her for 14 hours a night, rearrange the cage, remove any toys she turns into nest material, dont give her any nest objects, remove anything she may see as a nest, she has foraging toys, she can only have certain kinds of toys and perches because she chews rope and fibers and wood into nest material. but take one thing away, she just finds more. and a new cage? tried that too, didnt work. tried a different location, didnt work. this bird aint afraid of nothing, she even sasses the thunderstorms, and when our one cat sleeps beside her cage, she tries to chomp her tail between the bars.

take away all nest material possible, she starts using her food. she shreds her veggies into nest material, she turns millet seed hulls into nest material. get rid of a cubby hole or corner, she'll just squat herself right in the open middle of her cage. tried no grate, tried with grate, doesnt matter. she doesnt even sit on the eggs or pay them any attention. she bashes them around and breaks them all. whether she breaks them the same day or a week later, they all eventually wind up broken. the 2 she has laid this time around, she broke both. and i think a 3rd is going to be due tonight :/ shes still acting normal.


hormone reduction techniques work easily on our cockatiels, but not munch.


she seems to be doing well, other than shes still nesty and that looks like its here to stay... BUT, we are moving to a new apartment in a few weeks, so that might knock it out--at least for a little while.
 
Good god, that sounds EXACTLY like Tsuki. But she would lay an egg every other day for weeks straight. She used to roll her eggs around too. Eventually she started sitting on them on the floor of the cage sometimes, but only on occasion. I remember her trying to spread herself out over her pile of 25 eggs once. :/

Does Munch have her own cage to herself? I wonder if having the other birds around more might help distract her. Then you have to deal with the risk of fights and stuff, though.

Dang! Rough spot. I wonder if egg-layers this severe have some kind of genetic hormone imbalance or other underlying condition that makes the egg-laying so impossible to stop? I thought that almost HAD to be the case with Tsuki... it is just so extreme.

Ohh, good luck. I'm glad Munchlax is doing okay for the moment (love the name, btw... my boyfriend was suggesting Pokemon names for the conure we're getting... he was joking that he was going to call him Chespin no matter what I actually name him). :P

Hopefully the move to a new apartment will get her to stop for a while and give her little body a break. <3333
 
Kisota said:
Good god, that sounds EXACTLY like Tsuki. But she would lay an egg every other day for weeks straight. She used to roll her eggs around too. Eventually she started sitting on them on the floor of the cage sometimes, but only on occasion. I remember her trying to spread herself out over her pile of 25 eggs once. :/

Does Munch have her own cage to herself? I wonder if having the other birds around more might help distract her. Then you have to deal with the risk of fights and stuff, though.

Dang! Rough spot. I wonder if egg-layers this severe have some kind of genetic hormone imbalance or other underlying condition that makes the egg-laying so impossible to stop? I thought that almost HAD to be the case with Tsuki... it is just so extreme.

Ohh, good luck. I'm glad Munchlax is doing okay for the moment (love the name, btw... my boyfriend was suggesting Pokemon names for the conure we're getting... he was joking that he was going to call him Chespin no matter what I actually name him). :P

Hopefully the move to a new apartment will get her to stop for a while and give her little body a break. <3333
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it's actually quite a relief to know there's someone who completely understands this frustration.

other birds... no i soo wish that were an option. but the moment she sees other birds, she starts displaying to them... you know, tail up, wings out... she does it to my friends conure, and to her brother mango. then she terrorizes the cockatiels. and her brother. she cannot share a cage with anybirdie, we tried once, and she tried to kill mango over a bowl of veggies. shes really difficult. oh and she displays to my husband as well. he cannot touch her AT ALL because the moment he tries, even a head scratch, she displays to him. which triggers even more laying.


the new place im going to try to have her in the window, so the outside view may be a good distraction for her.
 
DallyTsuka said:
it's actually quite a relief to know there's someone who completely understands this frustration.
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Yeah, it's really a uniquely awful problem. I think a lot of people deal with some amount of egg-laying, but very few have to deal with THIS kind of egg-laying.

It really sounds like you've tried everything. It's kind of sad for me to see someone else going through this, but I hope you can have a better ending to the situation.

Would it work to use an outdoor cage sometimes when the weather gets warmer? You have to have some pretty major supervision for that, obviously, but that was actually one thing that did seem to distract Tsuki pretty well.
 
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