18 weeks DYH still not drinking water

[Merlee]

LOL, i'll dictate , you do the writing!!!

You have got yourself a deal! I used to do transcription at a previous employer. Send me cassettes when you are ready. Lol.

 

[henpecked]

How do we do that? are you going to organize it? Where do i start? What's important and what's just an old fool?

 

[Merlee]

You do not give yourself enough credit. From what you have posted, I have learned a lot over the past year. I wouldn't know where to start compiling a book but I feel your knowledge should be compiled somewhere because I have not seen a book that specializes in all facets of amazon behavior. I have looked online for certain explanations, but cannot find them. Because you have spent a lifetime with these birds, you have a lot of info to share which would be invaluable. I wish I lived closer so I could learn more on a personal basis. One learns more hands on than reading, but one takes what is offered.

 

[henpecked]

maybe we should start with old post and see what that leads to? At least a starting point. I'll see if i can pick out some of the better ones and get them in one place.

 

[Pajarita]

IMO the issue with fruit is with our companion parrots getting too much sugar. Yes wild parrots will gorge themselves on fruit when it's "ripe". They'll also find several other food sources that same day.They also tend to burn off the sugars with lots of flight/foraging. They do eat a "balanced Diet" ,but it's balanced over a long period of time. If you where to only observe one week out of the year you might get the wrong impression about what constitutes their diet. Example is the nonavailability of fresh fruits during the 3=4 month long "dry season" in the subtropics. During the rainy season ,when it rains daily, they consume rain water without having to visit a "watering hole" except to bathe. Another example would be amazons eating huge quantities of nuts and seeds during the dry season, but you wouldn't feed your pet a 80% diet of seeds and nuts,would you?

Some of the healthiest,long lived flocks of amazons (and other New World parrots) kept in captivity belong to a good friend of mine who only feeds very small amounts of fruit,way less than 10%. He has hundreds and hundreds of zons and macaws, breeding 3rd/4th generation , and has active breeders,breeding for 40 yrs.

IMO (again) too much of anything is bad for a amazon. variety is best

You are absolutely right about the seasonality of their diets (something we should strive to emulate in captivity) but they never eat huge amounts of nuts or seeds for the simple reason that they don't abound in nature and there is high competition for them.

And yes, fruits have sugar but it's not sugar as we think of sugar (meaning from cane or beets and refined). It's fructose, which is easier to digest because of the dilution (fruits have A LOT of water and are nutrient-dense) and so has a low glycemic index compared to refined sugar which is glucose and has nothing but empty calories.

But you are also right in that fruit feeding is directly related to everything else in birdkeeping. My birds all live cage-free and are fully flighted (not that I am under any illusions of thinking that they get enough exercise, mind you!) plus I don't feed them pellets or people food so the only source of sugar they get is from the fruits they eat which I think it's much healthier (and closer to what nature intended) than feeding them plain old sugar (sucrose - as in Zupreem pellets) or corn sugar (which although it's called 'high fructose', it actually contains almost equal amounts of sucrose and fructose and has no nutrients or dilution - as in Kaytee's).

What does your breeder friend feed as staple, pellets or seeds? Are the birds in flight cages or in breeding cages all year round? Outdoors or indoors? Because I know macaws that eat mostly fruit (fully flighted, exercised, outdoor access in tropical country, etc) and they do wonderfully on that diet.

 

[henpecked]

He does feed pellets and seeds but mostly sprouts and chopped veggies. I think sprouted peas make up a large portion . All the birds are flighted, most are in breeder cages most of the year. At times(outside of breeding season) he does put some (same species) in large flight cages, some will change mates, but he tries to mimic natural social settings as much as possible. The immatures spend up 10 yrs in large flight pens with other immatures until they pick mates and are separated.

I would argue the amount of seeds and nuts consumed during the dry season , there's almost 0 green leafy material and no fresh fruits, they may chew limbs and branches to get at the growing layer underneath, but for the most part depend on seeds and nuts. of course the introduction of farming and irrigation has changed things in recent history and these birds do raid crops now.

 

[iSancho]

I do think too much of anything is not good. Now back to my DYH. I'm trying out a non stainless steel bowl for water. Also I moved most of his bowls up high. He seems to like eating up high so I rearranged everything. He doesn't eat as much if the bowl is inside his cage. He'll eat more if it's on top or even more if I hand feed him piece by piece. I'm trying to break his habit. (or mine). I'll see how to goes.

Another concern. He was under the air vent, would that cause him to twitch his head really fast? He was scratching his nostril a lot and his head wouldn't stop twitching when he was trying to nap. And does his nostril look inflamed in the picture? It looks a little red to me and puffy but not sure if that's normal. Thanks.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Are you talking about the head twitching that almost looks as if he was possessed? Like REALLY fast going in circles? (Sorry if my lack of description makes you raise your eyebrows. )

My Amazons do the head twitching, I also call it doing the "Stevie Wonder", and they do it when they are excited and/or agitated.

As for his nostrils, no, they don't look irritated to me. As long as he doesn't have a discharge, I wouldn't worry. Sometimes they get a super fine feather caught up in there, or another irritant, and when they scratch there, it can leave them looking a bit darker/red, but it should go away within a day or so.

 

[henpecked]

I have seen zons with small feathers caught in their nostrils. I was amazed the first time a vet pulled one out.yes it looks red and inflamed to me. I am very aware of the vents blowing on the birds and try not to let that happen. I don't mean to be an alarmist but i think there's an issue.I would bring this up with my vet. I think the head twitching might be because it's irritating him in some way. That's my gut feeling.

At 18 wks old, he loves to have you feed him, that's why the handfeeding ,even when not hungry, is also a natural response. This is your golden opportunity to expose him to new foods and expand his acceptance of new foods.A little effort on your part will guarantee better health for him in the future. Remember variety is very important to their overall heath and well being.Exploit that.It wouldn't be long before he doesn't want you to feed him.

I'm sorry for derailing your thread, helping you and your zon to be happy and healthy is very important to me. Please don't be offended. I get side tracked sometimes.

 

[iSancho]

Stevie Wonder? That sounds more like rocking the head left to right motion. This is Like if a mosquito flew by your ear and you should shake your head to get it away from your head. He was in my office napping and he started doing that and it made aware of the vent. Then I had a better look at his nostril. It looks inflamed. I think i noticed it the other day but i was under baf lighting. He sneezed a little and it was a little wet. But he hasn't sneezed since I moved him from the vent. I thought maybe he scratched his nose so hard and it turned red and will go away. I'll keep an eye on him to see if it goes down/away.

No worries about getting side track. I find all the information is very useful.

Here's a better face on photo. Is it bad?

 

[henpecked]

I don't know if bad is the right word, I'd be concerned, it doesn't look right to me. Maybe it doesn't look "normal" is a better choice of words.

 

[ShellyBorg]

I agree, not really bad but a bit puffy. (My poor Danny says "Thanks!" He just got looked at with a magnifying lense LOL! )

 

[henpecked]

it's crazy, every time someone sees something wrong,,, i have to check my bird for it too. i'm lucky though,, she loves the attention.

 

[ShellyBorg]

Mine is still afraid of his shadow at times, but he is getting use to Mom doing crazy things.

 

[iSancho]

I'm going to bring him to the vet but I do hear him breathe with blockage now and then. His nostril is still inflamed and all the hair around that area are standing up. He's eating like normal though. The only difference in behavior is that he's a bit more clingly lately. He finds relief letting me pet his nostril area. I feel so bad for him.

Even better news, he's drinking water!!! I put the plastic bowl on top of his cage next to his pellets and sure enough he was biting it and took a drink! And a lot! He probably has an infection from not drinking. His poop was completely dry this morning so I'm soooo relieved he finally came around.

 

[Pajarita]

Please, do take him to an Avian Vet and have him tested for Chlamydiosis because I will go one step farther than Henpecked and Shellyborg and state that it looks bad to me. It is entirely possible it's just a respiratory infection but I've seen nares inflamed like that in birds sick with psittacosis. And dry poop is definitely NOT good so, if I were you, I would eliminate the pellets asap and switch him to chop or gloop or any other type of homecooked food. And do add some electrolytes to his water.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Hey Sancho...how is your baby???

 

[iSancho]

Just got back from the vet and doc said Rio has a respiratory infection that is all in the nasal area and hasn't spread to the lungs yet. So it was good to catch it early before it got worst. Besides his nostril being inflamed the inside of his mouth where the so call gills are were red. I had seen that the other day too but I didn't know it wasn't supposed to be red. Rio's on Baytril for 5 days. I had to mix it with a little formula because he wouldn't take it after tasting the fruity flavor antibiotic. I think the trip to the vet was more traumatic since that was the first time in a car. But he seem to handle everything well after coming home. He was back on his cage eating pellets and then after I fed him a bean mix. I feel so much better now and I hope Rio will too. Thank you everyone for your input.

Something interesting to me - Rio walked up to the male doc and tried to bite him but didn't do anything to the female nurses. Maybe that will make my husband feel better. What can I say, Rio's a lady's man/bird.

 

[iSancho]

Do you think it's okay to still mist Rio while he has an infection? He's on day 3 of antibiotics and the redness is less now. Everything else is still normal. Just didn't want to make it worst if I mist him while he's recovering.

 

[JerseyWendy]

To tell you the truth, I don't know. I've only had one bird ever needing antibiotics, and I didn't bathe her during the short time she was on it.