Potential first time buyer

Hey guys!

I recently moved to my own condo, and I've had pets all my life (dogs and cats) and I very much enjoy the company of animals, so I'm considering purchasing a bird. I'm looking up various videos and reading on loads of different material before I decide, but I thought it might be easier to ask directly regarding what kind, or even if I should buy a bird at all (I want to give them a good life after all. If I can't provide that, I don't want a bird). As the title suggests, I've never owned a bird before.

Information about my home:
I live in a condo with neighboors below me and on my side. It was completed november 2019, and should be relatively sound proof. However, I want a relatively quiet bird that doesn't bother my neighboors.

The size is 90 square meters. The temperature in winter is usually aimed at 21celcius degrees. I can increase this of course, but I generally don't like it hotter than 22-24 in the winter. My kitchen is an open solution, meaning that it's a part of the living room. From what I understand, kitchens can be very dangerous for birds because of fumes. The ventilation on my kitchen isn't the best.

About me
I'm a single, 28 year old man (starts to sound like a dating ad lol). I have a full time job (37,5 hours every week), and I go to the gym typically 3 days a week. Usually not in weekends. This means at worst, I might leave the house at 07.25 in the morning, and be home around 18.30-19.00 one-three days a week (if I shift two days to the weekend). I'm a stay-home kind of guy, so I rarely go on vacations, but if I were to go, I'd make sure my parents or perhaps some friends could look after the potential pet while I was gone. I rarely party, but I sometimes travel to friends and family for the weekend (once a month perhaps). I enjoy playing video games from time to time. Generally I play alone, meaning I'm very accessible to the birds, but I also like to play with friends online, meaning I'll be less accessible. I'm very loyal to my pets, so I don't see a situation where I'll stop loving them. I know some people buy pets and figure out that it's not for them. Never happened to me with my dogs and cats.

What I'm looking for
I want a pet that can be alone for big portions of the day. I think I want two, so that they can have eachother when I'm gone. I'd prefer having them out of the cage at all times (when I'm home). Hopefully even when I'm not, but that depends on how dangerous it would be for them.

As mentioned earlier, I don't want them to bother my neighboors. Some noise is of course acceptable, but the quieter the better.
I would love an affectionate bird that can perch on my shoulders and likes to be petted.

I've looked at both Budgies and Cockatiels, leaning on cockatiel. They seem more affectionate, and from what I understand, they don't constantly chatter unlike the Budgie. Or another bird perhaps? My knowledge on thisis very limited.


Would one (or two) of these birds be suited for this lifestyle?
I have in no way decided if I want to own a bird yet, but I want to do proper research, and hear from people who know how to deal with birds before I decide. Again, if I can't provide them a happy life, I don't want to have one.

Thank you for reading.
Also, I apologize if this was the wrong place to post this.

When you have a bird, any sort of heated mechanism (anything that heats or is intended to be heated) and contains PTFE/PFOA/PFCs/Teflon will be out of the question (and most things that heat up or are intended to be heated DO contain these chemicals)--This includes things like pots, pans, cupcake trays, cookie sheets, cake pans etc, but it will also things like include hair-dryers, straighteners, curling irons, curlers, rice-cookers, SLOW COOKERS, popcorn poppers, air fryers, microwave meals (including certain types of microwave popcorn), steamers, irons, ironing board covers, electric skillets, griddles, George Foreman Grills, drip trays, toasters, toaster ovens, poaching pans, electric blankets, humidifiers, heat lamps, SPACE HEATERS, Scotch Guard etc etc...Here 2 links about it: https://www.ewg.org/research/canarie...on-kills-birds
To find out what contains PTFE/PFOA/PFCs/Teflon, you have to call and be a bit insistent about it over the phone (and in some cases, you won't get far--but sometimes it is a matter of how you ask). Almost always, it will take a few days (and numerous holds) for them to get back to you and you must provide the full chemical names, abbreviations and brand-names. Shopping when you have a bird is super annoying because cannot visually ID these chemical coatings, as they can be colored, transparent, or mixed into metal/fabric during the manufacturing process. Teflon and chemically similar products have killed birds on separate floors with the doors shut. Similarly, while DuPont claims that off-gassing only occurs at higher heats, there have been myriad bird deaths (even within academic circles) at temperatures well within the 300 degree F range! There is a reason they used canaries in coal-mines and it is because they die very easily due to even low levels of fumes of any sort. Some specific accounts: https://www.ewg.org/research/canarie...-death-diaries
Here are the abbreviations and full spellings of the chemicals you need to ask about when inquiring about a product (give the name, spelling and abbreviation of each):

Teflon= common brand-name using the chemical types in question
PTFE= Polytetrafluoroethyline
PFOA= Perfluorooctanoic acid (sometimes known as C8)
PFCs= Perfluorinated chemicals

Sleep=essential to hormonal and immune function. Different species have different requirements, but 12 is pretty much the average. This means that someone must be there to cover and uncover the bird at the same time each night and that your home must be conducive to sleep.

Make sure you aren't using any unsafe products around the bird. This is pretty much everything with a scent (and some things without).
No perfume, PAINTS, carpet cleaner, flea shampoo, aerosols, solvents, air fresheners, paints, smoke of any kind, vaping, sunscreen, bugspray, candles of any kind (organic or non), insecticides, certain soaps/shampoos, fire-places, burning or heated oil/fat, self-cleaning ovens, gas and any household cleaners (e.g., bleach, windex, lysol, fabreeze, scrubbing bubbles, kaboom, pine-sol etc)...You will seriously have to re-think your entire home and your cleaning routine will change a ton.
NEVER use the self-cleaning oven function or try to season cast iron around birds.
The list goes on. Birds have VERY sensitive respiratory systems. Essential oils are also fairly unsafe due to their ability to be absorbed into the blood-stream and due to a bird's sensitive air sacs.
In terms of safe cleaning alternatives: White vinegar + water (as long as you don't heat it), grapefruit seed extract + water, baking soda (for scrubbing), some (but not all) natural cleaning products sold in pre-mixed formulas, and then avian-safe veterinary disinfectants, such as F10 SC (the yellow/clear concentrate has to be mixed with water but it is super safe and more effective than vinegar at killing bacteria etc).

Fumes make traveling with a bird complicated, as it is very unsafe to bring your bird with you into a location where teflon or chemical cleaners are being used. My bird does travel with me, but it is important to consider the safety of your final destination, as well as car temperature and any stops along the way (if you plan on bringing your bird inside).
I would recommend getting an air purifier (non-ozone producing/non-ionizing) to help with dust/mold etc (which can harm birds). Please note- a purifier will not protect birds from cigarette smoke, vaping fumes, teflon/ptfe/pfoa etc. It will only help increase the quality of the air to some extent. You cannot use unsafe chemicals around the bird just because you have a purifier.

Generally, you should only pet birds on the head/neck and you should not allow any shadowy spaces in the cage (boxes, bedding, crumbled paper, tents, blankets, low furniture, in clothing etc)...and so are tents/huts/hammocks etc. These things are hormonal triggers and they can cause health and behavior problems and snuggle huts can also entangle birds and cause blockages.

Birds hide illness like crazy, so there is nothing intuitive about their diseases. You have to be ready to study your birds poop and behavior daily, because even the slightest change can be a huge indicator. Blood work must be done frequently (ideally, 1x a year, but some vets will say every 3) and should be done soon after you get a new bird. Birds can carry and spread deadly illnesses without showing any symptoms, so play-dates and exposure to boarding facilities etc come with risks of their own. PBFD, ABV and PDD are all very serious and very contagious diseases that can be spread by things like feather dust in the ventilation system. These diseases are also notorious for producing false negatives in infected but asymptomatic carriers (when tested).
Bottom line: make sure that you have a certified avian vet (CAV) near you. Exotics vets who see birds are not the same thing. If you don't have a CAV near you, your life will be much more anxiety-ridden than if you do (and the difference between a CAV and an exotics vet can mean the difference between life and death for your bird in certain instances). NOTE: I know CAVs are not available everywhere, so do the best you can to find one. I lived in a place that didn't have one in the past, and I had to shop around for exotics vets and I always researched before trusting anything my exotics vet told me. Some of it was good advice and some was terrible. Never trust a vet that says to mix medicine into a bird's water! That is a sign that they are totally clueless. Also, never trust a vet that gives a bird antibiotics without first running some sort of test on the poop etc...and don't mix vitamins into water, as they increase bacterial risk and are too hard to monitor (speaking of water---try to go with dishes and not dispensers, as the dispensers are dirty and can get clogged).

Birds are very sensitive to temperature changes and drafts. Any temperature change of 10 degrees or more puts significant stress on their systems. If you have to take your bird out in the cold, make sure you carefully cover the cage and pre-warm the car. Also, make sure you don't have any air-fresheners in the car or vents blowing directly on the bird. Extreme heat can also be harmful. Over time, birds can adjust to a wide ranger of temperatures, but this adjustment has to take place over a long period of time. Anything too quick is going to shock their systems.

Dowel perches that are smooth/even in texture lead to a disease called bumble-foot. Textured perches prevent this---look into dragonwood, manzanita and pummice perches. There are numerous guides to appropriate sizing online.

Birds move in slow motion and especially and establishing real trust can take many months. Do not push physical contact early on. Do quiet things near the cage, read a book out loud etc. The goal is to form positive associations between low-stress, rewarding situations and yourself/bird. Don't push anything your bird isn't comfortable with while building trust.

A baby bird will generally be friendly to all (much like a baby human), but teen and adult birds experience significant hormonal changes which impact their personality and preferences. Puberty is particularly bad in many cases. Although it passes, an adult bird will never be as nice as a baby and it will come with a whole new set of preferences, desires and rules.
It is very important not to engage in behaviors that will eventually be inappropriate for the bird as an adult, as this sets an unsustainable precedent. You must teach independence, refrain from allowing the bird to graft itself to you all day, do not spend excessive time with your bird due to the fact that they are a new and exciting new pet (because you will be expected to keep it up long-term), pet on head/neck only and do not provide your bird with access to fleece huts, huts in general, tents, boxes, blankets, pillows, bedding etc, ignore screams for attention and attend to the sounds you will be able to tolerate long-term, ignore biting when it happens and do not scold/react unless you know why it happened---you don't want to reinforce behavior by reacting in a way that will strengthen it. There is also information on this forum about "the shunning" method which can work for some birds depending on who is being bitten and your relationship with the bird.

Here is the 2nd part that I just wrote the other day-- there are a few redundancies, but they were typed a few months apart--

Foods- stick to a low-fat diet with occasional seeds (for most birds) although some varieties do need a few more in their daily diet.
Unless you have an eclectus, a diet of pellets and chop (fruit/veg with more vet than fruit=ideal). If your bird is eating seeds as a major part of his diet, don't just cut him off (as they can be stubborn and starve if they are picky enough). Mine eats a healthy seed mix (no sunflowers or peanuts) and pellets (plus chop). I give her some seeds because she came to me eating them and she is eating less now than she did then...her blood work etc is fine and so is her weight, so I am okay with a few mixed in.
Tobacco residue (in the air or on hands/body)= very bad for them too, so if you smoke, vape, chew etc, MAKE SURE you are completely aired out and that any part of your body that the bird will be touching has been washed if it came in contact with the tobacco etc.
Birds are lactose intolerant, so dairy isn't very good for them (although a teeny-tiny bit of a hard cheese or something can be given like once a month or something lol---like a very rare treat and when I say tiny, I mean tiny).

Unsafe foods- tomato, mushroom, rhubarb, chocolate, coffee of any sort (even decaf--there is an actual component in it other than caffeine), artificial sweeteners, AVOCADO, apple seeds and the meat from fruits cut near the pit, alcohol...Avoid high sugar foods, avoid high-fat foods, Salt should be EXTREMELY limited , do not allow your bird to come into contact with your saliva or eat directly after you (human saliva has the potential to make birds sick in some cases). Some people also say to avoid celery, as it can cause the crop to get blocked (same with other super-stringy foods). OH---No garlic, onions, chives, leeks, shallots, green-onions etc....Now, a teeny bit of cooked garlic in a dish filled with other ingredients isn't going to kill a bird if it sneaks a bite (assuming there is nothing else toxic in there) but it is toxic for them in general.
Peanuts should be avoided as they contain aflatoxins and can cause aspergillosis.
Certain beans are also toxic and should never be fed to birds (even when cooked)--It depends on the type..
Citrus fruit/citric acid should be very limited (as in oranges etc) because too much can cause iron storage syndrome.

Wet food shouldn't be in the cage more than 3 hours before getting dumped and washed with a bird-safe soap like Dawn. Something like an apple slice can obviously stay longer than something like oatmeal.
Water dished should be washed at least 1-2 times daily with water and soap.

No corn cob bedding or bedding in the cage---period (line cage with something like paper towels, butcher paper or black and white newspaper)
No cages or toys made of galvanized metal, copper, zinc, or lead...Certain amalgams contain these but go by a different name, so always check. They can get metal toxicity from things like money, costume jewelry, cages etc---Stainless is the safest-- followed by bird-safe powder coated cages (but you did need to verify this because some powder coatings and certain iron blends can contain toxins---especially those made in China).
Here is some more information on metals and their safety--

Heavy Metal Poisoning in Birds
http://www.multiscope.com/hotspot/articles/heavymetals.htm
another link to a list of household hazards:
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/parrot-precautions.html

No huts/tents/access to shadowy spaces (in or out of the cage) or it can make them get crazy and hormonal over time.

Make sure he has safe toys but don't just shove a bunch into the cage without making sure you give him time to adjust to seeing them from a safe distance and model playing with them for a few days nearby (silly, but important for young or timid birds).

MAJOR RED FLAGS---sitting on the bottom of the cage with no apparent purpose, falling/difficulty balancing for no reason (babies excluded), wheezing, tail pumping/bobbing when standing still and breathing, audible sounds when breathing, discharge from eyes or nose, frequent sneezing. If you notice these things, it isn't a "wait and see" health issue, it is a get them in ASAP issue. Bleeding is also another important one as birds don't have much blood. In an emergency, corn starch can be used to temporarily stop bleeding but it isn't a permanent fix in many cases..oh, and straining to poop is another one to look out for. There are 3 parts to poop--- the poop, the urine and the urates. The urates are like a white, stringy liquid and they should always be white. The urine is the liquid that surrounds the poop . The poop should not have chunks of undigested food in it. Super watery poop or NEON green poop can be bad--poop should never ever have a smell. Bubbly poop can indicate yeast over-growth. Stress can diet change can temporarily alter poop, but its important to keep an eye on it daily and change cage liners daily.
https://www.northernparrots.com/what...l-you-blog507/

Pay attention to poop as it will be very important for you to check it daily--- different colors/consistancies mean different things. Some of it will change depending on diet but it is important to get an idea of what your birds healthy poop looks like.

Many people use a gram scale to track their bird's weight every few days--you can buy one with a perch attached or make your own, by attaching a t-stand to one. Just remember--- not glue/fumes around the bird if you do this.

Birds are sensitive to drafts and major temperature changes. Make sure your bird isn't near drafty windows or heating/cooling vents. If you have to take him outside and it is cold, cover the cage with a blanket before returning to a temperature like he was used to.

When you cover the cage at night, make sure you cover it with a material that is breathable--- you do not want to smother the bird. They sell special cage-covers that are black-out materials yet breathable, but you can use other things as long as you are sure they aren't too thick. Also, your bird should never be covered during the day aside from travel in cooler weather. Never cover to stop screaming etc...bad news. Make sure that the laundry detergent you use doesn't have a strong smell. I use free-and clear and never any fabric softener or drier sheets, as these chemical scents are bad for the bird (and people honestly).

Make sure your bird's cage is in the main area of activity in the house (excluding the kitchen, as that is hazardous)--spend time socializing your bird. Remember that even a bird with clipped wings can fly given wind/height/space etc, so never take the bird outside without a cage or harness. If you ever do get wings clipped (which not everyone does), make sure you do not get a single-wing clip---you do not want them falling to the ground or losing control if they try to fly---the goal is for them to glide down safely.

Bathing opportunities should be provided once your bird is comfortable with you. If it doesn't scare him, you can spritz him with a spray bottle (not in the face and never as a punishment) but DO make sure the house is warm and draft free and never get a bird wet right before bed. Another option is setting out a shallow basin of water and allowing him to walk around in it. Some people will take their bird into the shower and let them go in and out of the water as they please, but there should never be any contact with soap and water should be luke-warm to cool (not as hot as people would generally prefer to shower and not super cold either).

For cleaning around the house, I use vinegar and water or f10 sc (bird-safe disinfectant). If you get the kind that is yellowish/clear, it doesn't have to be rinsed (there is a green kind with detergent that does have to be rinsed). F10 does have to be diluted before use though--- one tiny bottle makes something like 17 gallons if you mix it at a 1:250 ppm ratio (e.g., 2ml of F10 to every 17 oz h20)...It is a really great product and it kills germs way better than vinegar. It is safe for use in diluted form with your bird in the same room. Once mixed and stored in a spray bottle, it is good for up to 6 months. Unmixed, it lasts for years. I use f10 to clean my birds cage, but I have to scrape off the poop, as f10 doesn't break down grime, it just disinfects.

Thank you for this post! I'll go thoroughly throught it later today.
It's getting more and more clear that owning a bird is a whole different beast compared to our mammal friends.

Peemja said:

Thank you for this post! I'll go thoroughly throught it later today.
It's getting more and more clear that owning a bird is a whole different beast compared to our mammal friends.

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That is SO very true.
They are totally great when taken care of properly, but a lot of people get irritated because they go into it without a full understanding of those differences.

Again-- WELCOME!!!!!

You are 100% right. Owning a parrot of any size it totally different than having a dog or cat, more like a 2 or 3 yr old that never grows up, needs human contact and care every day, for oh say 15 yrs and up. Parrots of any size are NOT an easy care pet and need a commitment that other pets do not require.

Thanks for doing your research !

Wrench is absolutely correct- even small parrots have tremendous intelligence (on-par with the large ones---aka a 3 year-old with a beak and wings).

Budgies often get a bad wrap because they can be gotten cheaply and people often get them from places where they haven't had proper interaction. Then they come home with a scared bird, house/feed them inappropriately and rush physical contact---failing to take the time needed to build trust.
When the bird fails to meet their expectations (given unreasonable living conditions and too little time) they assume they must be less intelligent than other birds and end up keeping their bird locked up/failing to socialize it (which only makes it worse).

That turned into more of a ramble than anticipated, but even if it is hard to imagine, those $20 budgies at Petco are AS smart as large parrots. Now, would I recommend getting one from PetCo-- probably not (just because there are some risks there)...but they really aren't the "children's pets" that they are advertised to be. Having one is a whole-house commitment because everyone has to be involved in terms of care, product use, safety etc.

PS- I only mentioned budgues/parakeets because people getting cockatiels usually have to drop a bit more money, so even at $100, a cockatiel is less likely to be an impulse buy within the general populous. They are equally intelligent though!

I just read through it all.
Oh my, this was a lot, and incredibly complicated (at least at first glance). I assumed I needed to make some changes, but it never even occured to me that pyrolysis (my oven's self-cleaning function) and detergent fumes can be dangerous to the birds (these are not at all problematic for me to change, though). Makes sense, but I never even thought about it.

I'll go through what I have at home and what changes need to be made, but you're right that it looks like I need to completely rethink my appartment if I'm getting a bird. I also love using my airfryer, so getting rid of that will/would hurt my soul lol. I don't smoke or vape or anything like that, but my neighboors underneath do. Don't think that will provide any problems, though. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, of course!

Thank god I asked, and again, thank you for providing the information.
There's a LOT to go through.. Much more than I anticipated.

...Makes me wonder how many birds are living in .. suboptimal conditions.

When it comes to temperature changes, I live in Norway, and we have seasons. It's naturally much colder at winter (20-21 celsius atm), and summer can probably be between 22-28 celsius). We've had some very hot summers the last couple of years. At least periods of it. Will those temperature fluctuations be problematic for the bird? They're not sudden, but the temperatures here do fluctuate a lot throughout the year.

A lot of information already given here on bird care, but speaking on living situation, I think you'll be 100% fine with the smaller species you're looking at in your condo. We live in a condo with our amazon parrot and before that, rented apartments with paper thin walls. Never had any noise issues. He occasionally squawks for a minute or so when we leave, but that's about it (he's on the quieter side for his species). None of our neighbors have ever had any idea he existed until they see him outside with us. Budgies and cockatiels probably could squawk all day and not be heard in a condo built to modern construction/soundproofing standards and even if they could, wouldn't really come across as any louder than wild birds outside.

Regarding cage-free time, most birds can be allowed out of their cages as long as someone is at home to keep an eye on them and some can be cage free entirely. Our bird is only locked in his cage at night when the covers go on, but as soon as the cover comes off, he's free to come and go as he pleases all day long whether we're home or not. It took several years before we reached that level of training/trust. Not every individual bird will ever be trustworthy enough to be "free range" and for those individuals who are, it's typically a years long organically evolved process, not something they're able to do within weeks or months after coming home. If you have any kind of pet that could harm a bird (dogs, cats, ferrets, large reptiles etc...) you absolutely cannot have birds out while unattended no matter how "well behaved" the other pet(s) may be, period, end of story. Too dangerous for the bird, we get horror stories on here all the time about birds being killed or injured by other pets. You also have to bird proof your home much like child proofing and there are still always risks. Most people settle on a oversized cage and supervised out of cage time to be safe.

Temperature is an on-going discussion especially for anyone near or above the 45th parallel and as you near the arctic circle the number of issues increases rapidly.

As you mentioned, the biggest problem is rapid change and/or located in an area where the temperature commonly fluctuates. So, what temperature can a Parrot living in comfortably. There is a ton of information that will lead you to believe that they can survive in areas that has snow or are tropical. The key is adjustment time. Birds cannot simply slip on a heavy coat and leggings, nor loose all their under-feathers. Normal guide is that if you are comfortable in light wear around the apartment, your Parrot will as well. Parrots adjust to temperature by adding or releasing under-feathers (downy feathers), but it takes a month or longer for that to occur.

Steady State Temperature! Parrots do best when the furnace is set at a single temperature and maintained at that temperature. Yes, Parrots can adjust to temperature set-back (variation), but do better when the temperature is steady.

In the Great White North, Humidity is a major concern as the vast majority of Parrots are from areas with higher (relative) Humidity than what is normal North of the 45 parallel. For both you and your Parrot you will want to maintain something above 40 to 45 % relative Humidity with a target at or above 50%.

Summer Time is a totally different story, especially in areas that have very wide swings in Summer temperature. Air Conditioning can be needed.

Major Issue for consideration: Window Screens are extremely uncommon in Northern Europe! The European design of windows allow them to be nearly full open, which with a Parrot can mean a quick flight out of the window and your Parrot is gone. An open window requires a window screen!

FYI: Check for the CITES requirements in your Country. It is very possible that you will need to register or at least have an Avian Professional for the medical care of your Parrot. Traveling with your Parrot in the EU will require documentation and depending on length of stay, may require contacting an Avian Professional in the Country(s) you are visiting.

I hope we are not scaring you away!
There is something very special when a Flighted Creature chooses to be with you...

Enjoy the Search for knowledge.

I can't handle the metrics , lol just an American.

Allopreening species, the one that usually love head scritches, don't do well be left alone for long periods of time. As I write this I have three quakers stuck to me , and I'm handling out kisses and head pats. People do work and have birds, but they try and have them out every second they are home, get up early to give attention before work..

What you ask for, is asked her many many times. What's a loving quite parrot, that can be alone most of the time. That just doesn't exist. Yes some species can do a little better, but even then individual birds can be very loud . I'm not saying you can't make something work. But while cats and dogs nap a lot, birds are active and social all day. And to keep them the amazing the unique and wonderful companion, you've got to meet those needs. Or they self destruct, screaming, biting, , plucking, or sad little shut down lumps in a cage.. spending time teaching them to forage, and engaged in toys, and stuff they can easily destroy or shred each day helps. Then when get home having them fly in the house do recall training in the house, spending time paying attention to them, and including them in every part of your life helps to. Having two birds might help things to, especially if they like eachother.

Parrots are very messy, their little down feathers float everywhere, they fling food, and chewed up stuff around, they poop several times an hour. They are not easy pets to keep, infact they are more like a different kind of people than a pet. But if you can make sacrifices, and put up with them, they are charming, unique , and steal your heart. They might also come between you and a future love. As often the other person doesn't want to make sacrifices, and time, and the bird could dislike them, or stop liking you and choose them as a favorite even if they don't like birds.

We all aren't saying don't get a bird, but just to think about it, and know what it's like. Because so many parrots are passed around when they don't work out, or shoved in a backroom and just given food and water and new toys and that is still neglect.

Also do not get an unweaned baby!!! It won't make a better pet, and may die before you get it Weaned. We just had that happen on the forum.

Budgies do well in pairs, don't tend to decide they hate each other as often as other parrots, and don't need you home all day as long as they have enough space and toys. But you're very unlikely to find one who likes being petted in any form.

I currently have an Indian ringneck, and although few like being petted by hands, finding one who likes being nuzzled by faces (more enjoyable than hand-petting in my opinion!) is not difficult as far as I can tell. I leave mine out of the cage in a bird-safe room when I leave, and he amuses himself. They are harder to enrich than a budgie just because they are more risky to keep with ringneck friends, and are bigger so need more space - he has a large cage but hated being in it for even an hour while awake before I took him out of my mum's house, he was bored.

Laurasea said:

I can't handle the metrics , lol just an American.

Allopreening species, the one that usually love head scritches, don't do well be left alone for long periods of time. As I write this I have three quakers stuck to me , and I'm handling out kisses and head pats. People do work and have birds, but they try and have them out every second they are home, get up early to give attention before work..

What you ask for, is asked her many many times. What's a loving quite parrot, that can be alone most of the time. That just doesn't exist. Yes some species can do a little better, but even then individual birds can be very loud . I'm not saying you can't make something work. But while cats and dogs nap a lot, birds are active and social all day. And to keep them the amazing the unique and wonderful companion, you've got to meet those needs. Or they self destruct, screaming, biting, , plucking, or sad little shut down lumps in a cage.. spending time teaching them to forage, and engaged in toys, and stuff they can easily destroy or shred each day helps. Then when get home having them fly in the house do recall training in the house, spending time paying attention to them, and including them in every part of your life helps to. Having two birds might help things to, especially if they like eachother.

Parrots are very messy, their little down feathers float everywhere, they fling food, and chewed up stuff around, they poop several times an hour. They are not easy pets to keep, infact they are more like a different kind of people than a pet. But if you can make sacrifices, and put up with them, they are charming, unique , and steal your heart. They might also come between you and a future love. As often the other person doesn't want to make sacrifices, and time, and the bird could dislike them, or stop liking you and choose them as a favorite even if they don't like birds.

We all aren't saying don't get a bird, but just to think about it, and know what it's like. Because so many parrots are passed around when they don't work out, or shoved in a backroom and just given food and water and new toys and that is still neglect.

Also do not get an unweaned baby!!! It won't make a better pet, and may die before you get it Weaned. We just had that happen on the forum.

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This thing about potentially impacting future relationships is huge (has been huge for me)---I am not saying a parrot will ruin anything, but if you get one, whoever you date has to be on board 100% ---re-homing these creatures is VERY hard on them and so it isn't like you can just dump the bird if you meet a girl or guy who loves to travel or refuses to part with his/her many perfumes/candles/colognes/pans etc...or (God forbid) hates birds. It is honestly really hard for people to understand if they have never owned a bird (or cared for one properly) the level of commitment it takes to make things fair for the bird (who didn't have a choice in any of it). People tend to default to what they know (which is usually dog, cat or neglected bird that a friend had when they were a kid).

My mom loves Noodles, but she still rolls her eyes at me from time-to-time over things (like cleaners and bedtime routines etc). I am constantly having to cite sources etc to convince her I am not just making things up lol.--PS: I live on my own--- I am talking about eye-rolls on visits.

My current boyfriend is learning all about birds and bonding with Noodles but he thinks some of the stuff I tell him sounds ridiculous because he has no solid bird experience (other than some random bird that they had for a few years when he was a kid who spent all its time in a cage etc). My ex wasn't fully in on Noodles----he didn't really want her to begin with (despite having given his "blessing"). It became a source of contention because she does limit my freedom with regard to feedings/bedtimes (because I have to be there to cover and uncover the cage, feed dinner etc). He followed the rules, but he was bitter about it.

The goal IS NOT to scare you away---but to bring all of this to your attention BEFORE you take a plunge that you may/may not regret. The bond you can build with a parrot is unparalleled, but it can be slow and they have to stay alive long enough for you to get them there..and then you have to maintain that bond (which really does take work--but it is worth it if that is what you want). Basically, when you are fully devoted (and live with others who are equally devoted) it is great! BUT, it takes work to get it and keep it that way.

Ike noodles said, we aren't trying to scare you off!!
This is a great link
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/bird-behavior/

I think a cockatiel would fit well into you're living situation. If you want two I would look for hand tamed (different than hand fed!) siblings of the same sex.
(Cockatiel people jump in if there's a problem with male:male or female:female pairings.)

Have you considered indoor pigeons or doves? The same household safety, socialisation and large cage requirements apply, but they like petting and are quiet, non-destructive and less neurotic than parrots. Many can't be released to the wild and need homes.

https://www.pigeonrescue.org/birds/pigeons-doves-as-pets/

Aspie_Aviphile said:

Have you considered indoor pigeons or doves? The same household safety, socialisation and large cage requirements apply, but they like petting and are quiet, non-destructive and less neurotic than parrots. Many can't be released to the wild and need homes.

https://www.pigeonrescue.org/birds/pigeons-doves-as-pets/

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Quiet may not be exacly the right word..Their volume is much lower, but they can still do that cooing sound (who ooo whoo whoo) A LOT. I had 2 in my science class in 7th grade and they were noisy---just not loud in terms of volume.

Thank you all for chipping in.

I haven't responded in a while due to busy week, but I've been reading. I'm still doubtful whether I should have a bird, especially considering how much I need to think about chemicals and fumes. I'm worried I'm not thorough enough as a person to remember all of the potential dangers for the bird.

I also think it was a great point to think about a potential girlfriend. I don't want to die single. Loving, liking, or at least tolerating a pet is a must for me (as I feel pets breath life into a home - as I mentioned i've always had pets my entire life), but I can't have a pet that gets potentially violent towards someone new - Especially considering that I'll be raising/handling this pet alone.

I'm also a bit "worried" I'll get locked to a very tight schedule because of the bird.

I've added Doves to my potential pet - I'll look more into them.
Thank you for suggesting it.

And please don't worry about scaring me off. I'd much rather not buy one than have it suffer or die due to negligence from my part. I want to know what I'm getting into.

Again, thank you all for your help so far. It really is making a difference for me here.

I'm also wondering. I generally want to adopt animals, but since I have no experience with birds, it's probably best to purchase a hand-fed or hand-raised chick?

Peemja said:

Thank you all for chipping in.

I haven't responded in a while due to busy week, but I've been reading. I'm still doubtful whether I should have a bird, especially considering how much I need to think about chemicals and fumes. I'm worried I'm not thorough enough as a person to remember all of the potential dangers for the bird.

I also think it was a great point to think about a potential girlfriend. I don't want to die single. Loving, liking, or at least tolerating a pet is a must for me (as I feel pets breath life into a home - as I mentioned i've always had pets my entire life), but I can't have a pet that gets potentially violent towards someone new - Especially considering that I'll be raising/handling this pet alone.

I'm also a bit "worried" I'll get locked to a very tight schedule because of the bird.

I've added Doves to my potential pet - I'll look more into them.
Thank you for suggesting it.

And please don't worry about scaring me off. I'd much rather not buy one than have it suffer or die due to negligence from my part. I want to know what I'm getting into.

Again, thank you all for your help so far. It really is making a difference for me here.

I'm also wondering. I generally want to adopt animals, but since I have no experience with birds, it's probably best to purchase a hand-fed or hand-raised chick?

Click to expand...

Hand-feeding birds is even worse for them than trying to hand-feed puppies. It's common in some countries to the point where the results are seen as normal downsides to the species instead of preventable damage, as there are few co-raised birds to compare the hand-raised ones to. So get a co-raised chick if you can, they have better long-term health, learn how to forage and play and do all sorts of things better, are much less likely to fight with and kill other birds, and have much less anxiety, clinginess and chance of quickly dying if they escape due to lack of health and basic survival skills. Humans can't get the temperature, consistency and timing of feedings as close to perfect as birds do, so it's classed as a success if the baby merely survives and never appears sick while being hand-fed. The harm to their health and development and independent survival skills by the best possible hand-raising practices are not noticed until they're compared to the results of the best possible co-raising practices.