Hanging gym and dominence issues

D

Dj tweet

New member
Aug 11, 2010
204
0
New Zealand
Parrots
Pheonix- alexandrine parrot
1 September 2010

mikki- barraband x king parrot
21yrs old
Hi all I Want to make a hanging playgym for my bird to be ad I have a 16 month old baby who would also live to play with it and I can't see the bird liking that very much
my question really is about dominence issues
I know that some birds start to get nippy etc if they are perched above their owners
how can I solve this problem is there training I can do with him to help stop dominence or any creative ideas instead of hanging it up

My other thought was a wall shelf at my chest hight with a row of toys above it etc I'm just worried about him chewing the wallpaper etc

any ideas appreciated thanks
 
Can't help too much witht the toys part(other members should be able to though). but I can help eith the dominence.

Although it wasn't in your question, A lot of people don't know that A LOT of the time(not all) when A bird climbs to your shoulder, it's trying to show it's dominence. This is why A lot of people say to keep your bird OFF your shoulder...

So, with that said, I would just make sure the hanging toy is below your face for a bit (If the bird is showing dominence) and gradually start to raise it, when your bird knows your the dominent one.



I hope that made sense.
 
The idea of birds using height to display dominance is just a myth and does not exist. Birds will climb to heights for 'security', not to display dominance. There are no studies showing parrots displaying dominance as a natural behaviour in the wild, it is simply not in their nature. However, when they find a high perch they feel comfortable on, they may become more nippy. This is not necessarily due to 'displaying dominance', but more or less the bird just putting up a fuss because he wants to stay there. What will help with this problem is making sure you have a good bond with your bird before letting him hang out on these places. My Ekkie loves to fly onto the curtain rails and cupboards and sit up there. Even though he occasionally runs back and forth like a goof to stop me from getting him down (no biting though), I generally have do problems getting him to step down when I ask him. This is because he is very comfortable with me. I could imagine doing this with a bird that wasn't comfortable with me would end in some very sore fingertips ;).

You could try a stand gym instead of a hanging gym, I much prefer them as you can easily move them around.

Also with the shelf, if you are worried, try puting something there to stop him from accessing the wall like a piece of board (bird safe of course).

Hope this helps :)

Just to back up some of what i said, go to page 4 http://www.naturalencounters.com/im...ng_Parrot_Behavior_Naturally-Steve_Martin.pdf
 
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Thanks to you both for your advice maybe I should have explained it a bit better
I can't have a stand playgym because if my children they would Also want to play with them which would likely result in the bird nipping
Dominence wad just the general term i used I wad simply meaning refusal to step up off the perch and come down and also being nippy in an attempts to stay put

I think perhaps my wall shelve idea is best as I can put it high enough got kids to walk under safely and also low enough that it is at chest level
at least until He is better bonded with me and we can attempt a hanging gym

Thanks boabab I have learnt this recently and will be making it a house rule of no shoulders
my cage is also designed so it is only 900 high so that even when my 16 month old is next to it we are all taller than the birds head level
his cage is sectioned in out dinning room looking into out lounge with a safety bar in between so kids can't just walk up and put fingers in cage etc
I have chossen to put cage in Now so it's attractiveness is not such a huge thing to the kids once birdy comes home in few months hopefully then they won't want to hassle him so much when he does get here
 
The idea of birds using height to display dominance is just a myth and does not exist. Birds will climb to heights for 'security', not to display dominance. There are no studies showing parrots displaying dominance as a natural behaviour in the wild, it is simply not in their nature. However, when they find a high perch they feel comfortable on, they may become more nippy. This is not necessarily due to 'displaying dominance', but more or less the bird just putting up a fuss because he wants to stay there. What will help with this problem is making sure you have a good bond with your bird before letting him hang out on these places. My Ekkie loves to fly onto the curtain rails and cupboards and sit up there. Even though he occasionally runs back and forth like a goof to stop me from getting him down (no biting though), I generally have do problems getting him to step down when I ask him. This is because he is very comfortable with me. I could imagine doing this with a bird that wasn't comfortable with me would end in some very sore fingertips ;).

You could try a stand gym instead of a hanging gym, I much prefer them as you can easily move them around.

Also with the shelf, if you are worried, try puting something there to stop him from accessing the wall like a piece of board (bird safe of course).

Hope this helps :)

Just to back up some of what i said, go to page 4 http://www.naturalencounters.com/ima...eve_Martin.pdf
__________________
Click to expand...


Thanks for clearing that up Ben!!!!! Makes A LOT of sense!!!
 
I agree with Ben, I wouldn't call it domiminace but maybe more of superiority or king of the hill syndrome :09: parrots like most all birds seek the height for safety reasons, the higer up, the less chance of being preyed upon in the wild, its an instinct and not a learned behavior, in pet birds I think its more of a "comfort" thing, height is their comfort zone, I think you should still be able to accomplish what you want to do with a hanging perch or playgym by hanging it somewhere between the ceiling and the floor, high enough to be child safe, and low enough for the bird to step to you instead of to high so it has to step down to you, as for the shelf idea, you have to keep in mind most parrots are chewers and explore just about everything with their beaks, I'm afraid the shelf, wallpaper and maybe even the wall itself could just become another chew toy :11:
 
Bobby34231 said:
Iking of the hill syndrome
Click to expand...

HAHA yes, thats what we can call it ;)

DT I see your problem with the standing gym, having little ones poking and prodding the bird may be an issue. I do have a hanging gym outside on the veranda for my Ekkie and he really does enjoy it. Its just annoying that i can't take it around with me lol. I spose if you make it so it just hangs by a ceiling hook, you could have more hooks in other rooms and take it around with you.

btw what name did you end up going with for your Alex. ...Rueben?

Also Boabab you are quite correct with the shoulder thing in that it should be a privilege for the birds to sit up there. Personally I have a bit of a problem with this myself. My birds have always sat on my shoulder, and even though they have never shown any aggression over it, they always want to be there. I have no trouble getting them off, but as soon as I do, they fly straight back up there. I know it is a security thing, because it happens more in 'unfamiliar' environments or when strangers are around.
 
Aussie Ben said:
The idea of birds using height to display dominance is just a myth and does not exist. Birds will climb to heights for 'security', not to display dominance. There are no studies showing parrots displaying dominance as a natural behaviour in the wild, it is simply not in their nature.
Click to expand...
This is what iguanas do - the higher - the more dominant.:D I think people think what goes for one animal goes for all and so a miff starts.:p

The link you gave does not want to open.
 
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I think there is something in the height equals dominance thing - my parents first attempt at a chook house had a couple of perches of random heights, and the chooks that were obviously the boss chooks took the top perch and wouldn't let the others on it. When it sort of fell apart and they sought advice on building a scond one, they were told to have all the perches be the same height, or else that would encourage dominance and some chooks would get "hen pecked" and suffer more. And there was a difference, you would occasionally see one of the little bantams get roughed up by one of the bigger susssexs and they had some random bald patches, but after the second chookhouse was built you never saw anyone get roughed up for daring to eat the good scraps before the royalty did.
 
Quantumcat said:
I think there is something in the height equals dominance thing - my parents first attempt at a chook house had a couple of perches of random heights, and the chooks that were obviously the boss chooks took the top perch and wouldn't let the others on it. When it sort of fell apart and they sought advice on building a scond one, they were told to have all the perches be the same height, or else that would encourage dominance and some chooks would get "hen pecked" and suffer more. And there was a difference, you would occasionally see one of the little bantams get roughed up by one of the bigger susssexs and they had some random bald patches, but after the second chookhouse was built you never saw anyone get roughed up for daring to eat the good scraps before the royalty did.
Click to expand...

hmmm... not sure if the 'no dominance' rule applies to all birds. I wonder if chooks do actually have a hierarchy? They sound like the sort of creature to actually have a 'pecking order' :p
 
Thanks Ben for the good objection.

I second the notion that "height makes right" is a complete myth - I was trying to find a good way to interject that idea, but was unable.

I will disagree with Ben though that some birds certainly do have dominance hierarchies in nature, though all those I am sure of are passerines, and I don't know if any parrots are similar. Even in cases where there is a dominance hierarchy the causality of the above mentioned myth is backwards: the dominant bird(s) may perch higher, but they are not dominant BECAUSE they perch higher. So if anything it should be "right makes height" not "height makes right".

Also, as a last note - even when dominance hierarchies are present it is ONLY within the species. It is quite common to see several species of birds living together - any hierarchies only establish who the top sparrows are (among the sparrows) and who the top starlings are (among the starlings), etc.
 
Auggie's Dad said:
I will disagree with Ben though that some birds certainly do have dominance hierarchies in nature, though all those I am sure of are passerines, and I don't know if any parrots are
Click to expand...

Very interesting, thanks AD. I guess I used the word 'birds' too loosely, I was referring to parrots, I have no idea of other birds behaviour in this instance ;) LOL

So does this apply to Chooks?
 
Ben, Thanks for link... that article is very informative for us newbies...

I am having the issue of Abby nipping at me when I get her out of her cage.
Once she is out I have no issues with her stepping up...
 
Cowtown said:
Ben, Thanks for link... that article is very informative for us newbies...

I am having the issue of Abby nipping at me when I get her out of her cage.
Once she is out I have no issues with her stepping up...
Click to expand...

I think we're all newbies and always will be ;) Always something new to learn about these birds.

That sounds like cage aggression (ie: defending her nest/territory). I have never experienced it so don't really know how to deal with it. I could make suggestions, but can't grantee they would be correct. I know there are some members on here who do have cage aggressive birds that may be able to help.
 
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  • Thread starter
  • #17
Thanks all what you have all said has been really great

Unfort the Alex I was trying to get had already been homed the lady hadn't taken the add off however I rang last night and booked ababy with my breeder and should be looking forwArd to a nice little Xmas present to myself
or not so little when your talking about an Alex :)

I like the named pheonix, Dallas and Vegas
I'd love to call it gorgeous and have him say hello gorgeous but I think it may be a bit tricky
it's always something I Can try teach ontop of his name I guess
hen is working the box now but no eggs yet so still few months away

The wait is agony but it will be worth it
 
I think with the chooks it was being able to display on a regular basis (at bedtime) that you were the boss chook, made it easier to display it during the day (attacking second-class chooks who try to get the good scraps).

Also with the cage-protecting-nipping thing, I don't know anything about parrots really, Scarlett is my first one, but Scarlett would bite when trying to take her out of the cage too, covering my hand with a sock or teatowel would occasionally make her stop being bitey and just step up immediately, but if she was still being bitey, I would cover her in the teatowel and just lift her out, the biting stopped as soon as she she was placed on a perch or the couch. I didn't let her biting make me let her do whatever she wanted. I have no idea if this was the right thing to do but she stopped being bitey completely after about a month of having her. Her previous owner warned me she was "a bit bitey" and that was one of the reasons for her cheaper price. I'm glad it was so easy to stop it :)
 
Aussie Ben said:
Cowtown said:
Ben, Thanks for link... that article is very informative for us newbies...

I am having the issue of Abby nipping at me when I get her out of her cage.
Once she is out I have no issues with her stepping up...
Click to expand...

I think we're all newbies and always will be ;) Always something new to learn about these birds.

That sounds like cage aggression (ie: defending her nest/territory). I have never experienced it so don't really know how to deal with it. I could make suggestions, but can't grantee they would be correct. I know there are some members on here who do have cage aggressive birds that may be able to help.
Click to expand...

Shadow went through a stage of being cage aggressive, both in and on top of the cage. I'd use a perch to to get her to step up then transfer her to my hand. I still need to use it when she's on top - mainly because she goes to the back and I can't reach... little bugger. :rolleyes:
 
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