REALLY Worried About the Breeder I Chose!

Have any of you guys heard of Colorado Cockatoos?

Colorado Cockatoos
https://www.facebook.com/cocockatoos

When I first checked them out they seemed like great breeders--good reviews and such. However, as SilverSage suggested over on the "Do you need to handfeed to freeflight?" thread, yesterday I emailed them and asked them if they fully fledge the rosie babies because while I don't plan to free fly him, I do plan to leave him fully flighted (which I have already told the breeders). This is what I received in return:

Hi Michelle,
What do you mean by fledge? We wean them off handfeeding.
Have a nice day!
Heather

I have already paid them the full amount ($1450 including shipping), but now I am starting to think maybe I may have made a mistake. How can you not know what it means to fully fledge a baby if you are a good breeder? Also, how could you think the word "fledge" relates in some way to handfeeding? Last time I checked "weaned" and "fledged" weren't synonyms, and I'm no breeder! I am freaking out a little and wishing I had come on here for breeder recs now. What do you think I should do?

Okay, so I contacted the breeder, and she sounded really clueless. She offered to send me the baby NOT weaned (which I don't think any good breeder should do) telling me hand feeding is "not that hard," then she offered to learn to teach a bird to fledge if I sent her articles. I asked her about getting my money back and she said I could have it except the $200 deposit. My bank, however, thinks I might have a case to get all the money back since she sent me an email not knowing what fledging was yet is a bird breeder. I really don't know what to do and am feeling really sick right now. Should I take the $200 loss and pull out? Try and file a claim and get it all back (or possibly none?) I hate that such a happy thing has turned into such a disaster. I am really upset and not thinking very straight, so I would really appreciate some advice. Am I overreacting?

So I just looked her up on birdbreeders.com, and she has ZERO feedback on there. Now that doesn't necessarily mean she's not good, but I do find it a bit odd, especially since she's been a member with birdbreeders since 2011.
BirdBreeders.com :: Colorado Cockatoos, Denver, CO

I really don't trust FB feedback. All it takes is some 'friends' or 'friends of friends' to leave feedback.

If I were you, I'd listen to my gut. Have you ever spoken to her in person, or has everything been said via email correspondence? Did you have to sign any contracts? Does it say anywhere that deposits are non refundable?

And have you ever directly asked her if she clips her babies' wings?

I called her just now. She does clip her babies' wings and she will return the money without the deposit. Nowhere does it say the deposit is non-refundable. In an email she said:

You just need to send a $200 deposit for me to hold a baby for you.

And I did. I have a REALLY bad feeling about her. She just emailed me an article about teaching birds to fly and asking if this is what I want her to do--the article involved clipping the birds' wings in order to teach them to fly! Definitely not fledging. I am thinking I will ask for the $200 back but then count it as a loss if I can't get it back. It makes me want to cry, but I really do not trust this woman, ESPECIALLY since she so quickly offered to send me an unweaned baby and told me how easy it is to hand feed them! I'm feeling pretty stupid right now--obviously I was too excited by baby pictures and rushed into something. Now I may have to pay for it.

Does anyone have some suggestions of good, trustworthy rosie breeders who fledge their babies?

I think you're doing the right thing by backing out - especially if your gut is in a knot over all this. Unfortunately I can't help you one bit about the $200 deposit. There is NOTHING on her website about it either.

Offering to ship an unweaned baby definitely set my alarm bells off, too.

This place has GREAT reviews:
Rose Breasted Cockatoo #91959 for sale in Loxahatchee, FL

And this one:
Rose Breasted Cockatoo #94814 for sale in San Diego, CA

How did you pay Puck, what payment method did you use-just a check sent by regular mail or did you pay online? If you used paypal you should be able to file a claim, if credit card you can file a chargeback for the full amount. I had an online store for awhile and I know you can do those things if you have a problem.

I paid via my bank's Chase Quick Pay. I already contacted them and it doesn't look good for me since I sent it myself and it has already gone through, though they said they will look into the situation. (I tried to explain it and am not sure they were following, LOL!) I just wrote a really nice note to the breeder basically saying that I just feel that we aren't right for each other and asking if she could possibly give me the deposit back, too, since the babies are still so very young (they have at least three months til they are weaned). I also mentioned that I am a special ed middle school teacher so I don't have a lot of money, and I used up money I'd been saving for a very special gift to myself for a very long time. I also told her that I am sure she raises amazing babies for people who want their birds clipped, and I wouldn't want to take away from babies perfect for those type of people. I told her I would be very grateful to her if she could go ahead and refund the deposit. Hopefully being kind and explaining my situation will reach to her heart, and I will get my full money back.

I am definitely doing more research and asking more questions next time! I would still be happy to get any recommendations on RB2 breeders so I can find the one best suited to me. I have reached out to Brightwood Aviaries as suggested by Terri in another thread, though on her site she no longer lists RB2s as something she breeds, and I contacted the breeder above with some questions about how they raise their babies. Hopefully I will find a fantastic breeder--I just want the best for my baby, you know?

I am not crazy about the pics I saw on the website. Feather health does not look good in her birds, galvanized wire breeder cages (looks like anyway) and dirty face babies. It is a huge pet peeve of mine when breeders can't take the time to wash the babies face after feeding and let it dry into chunks on the face!

I have said it before and I will say it a million times greys, cockatoos and eclectus are the three types of parrots that I believe 100% must be allowed to fully fledge before they are light clipped and then only if absolutely necessary for a person's lifestyle.

Hand feeding isn't hard...BS! If you don't have a ton of experience a million things can go very wrong. As many years as I have been doing it I am still a wreak the whole time. Constantly concerned and watching every poop, every noise, temp, weight gain, time between feedings. Then there is the really complicated act of abundance weaning so you don't end up with a picky eater. In my opinion anyone who can feed babies and not be nervous and constantly on their toes no matter how many years they have been doing it is a fool.

labell said:

Hand feeding isn't hard...BS! If you don't have a ton of experience a million things can go very wrong. As many years as I have been doing it I am still a wreak the whole time. Constantly concerned and watching every poop, every noise, temp, weight gain, time between feedings. Then there is the really complicated act of abundance weaning so you don't end up with a picky eater. In my opinion anyone who can feed babies and not be nervous and constantly on their toes no matter how many years they have been doing it is a fool.

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Exactly! That was the point when I went from worried to "oh heck no!" Either she is really deluded and inexperienced or she doesn't really care about her babies' health enough to give the real skinny on hand feeding. Either way, it's not the breeder for me.

Puck you could try the bank again. Explain it different maybe. I'd say something like if I paid a repair shop to fix my car and then discovered that they didn't really repair the car would I be entitled to a full refund? Or maybe someone can take this basic idea and make it better. Hopefully the breeder will refund all of your money.

Wow, a "breeder" who breeds a 'high end' and complex species to raise (let alone ANY species and sells to the public), AND DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE WORD "FLEDGE" MEANS??!! RUN!!!

I have to echo everything posted by Jersey Wendy. Trust your gut, make a reasonable effort to salvage your deposit, leave appropriate feedback, and move on. Focus on the endgame of getting your lifetime fid companion!

Has anyone ever used Melzano's Place? Http://melzanosparrotplace.com. I plan to give them a ring and ask some questions later today. Any suggestions on what I should ask beyond making sure they know the definition of the word "fledge," lol?

The link you gave is an organization of folks who RAISE parrots and then sell them. They are not actual breeders. In other words they buy parrots while they are very, VERY young, hand raise them, and then re-sell them.

Here is a breeder in your state. They don't have any babies at the moment, but they have good feedback.

BirdBreeders.com :: Birds On A Perch Aviary, Brenham, TX

Was the bright wood aviaries you listed located in GA? That's where I got Flick, Sam, and Lady. Carmen is a nice lady, her birds are well socialized with humans and other birds. She is trying to retire so certain species are no longer available from her, but she might be able to send you in the right direction to find a reliable breeder.

It makes me SICK that someone so clueless is breeding! I'm so glad you are running from this person! I was just having a conversation with a friend about people who think they know what they are doing just because their babies survive. And "hand feeding" really isn't "that hard" but getting through it with a healthy baby who is physically, mentally, and emotionally solid; that is hard! Dealing with babies learning to fly is hard! How can you not know about fledging? HOW? sounds like someone saw an opportunity for a quick buck and took on a tak they are not ready for. Sadly with baby parrots, many of the symptoms of damage don't show up until a few years later. With the average cockatoo in the USA spending less than 2 years in each home due to "behavior problems" how can anyone undertake breeding them without fear, trembling, and hundreds of hours of research? I breed "biginer friendly birds" and even I spend hours agonizing over the details, the homes, the feeding, the time for them to fly, etc.

Oh goodness I'm so sorry to hear this, Puck! ):

I got very lucky with the breeders I found for my grey. They held the baby for me just based on a text agreement. I got to go visit them and meet the babies and talk with them for a while before I had to put down a deposit. They even asked me if I was sure that I was still interested (I guess I'm more nervous than I thought and they were worried).

I asked a ton of questions over Facebook before I decided to go with this aviary. I'm a little neurotic with these things, and I never go through with something until I'm 100% positive.

I think you're right to turn and run very far away from this woman. That's really scary to think about. All of those poor babies she's raising ):

There may be a Facebook (or other) group for animals in your general area. I've discovered a few bird breeders that way. Since a lot of aviaries ship, there are people from neighboring states posting in there. One aviary in Pennsylvania was my back up choice, when I thought all of the baby greys at my aviary were spoken for. They were posting a ton of videos and pictures of the babies as they grew up, and were answering all of the questions various people were asking.

Good luck! All of this trouble will be more than worth it once you have your baby home safe with you.

SilverSage said:

Was the bright wood aviaries you listed located in GA? That's where I got Flick, Sam, and Lady. Carmen is a nice lady, her birds are well socialized with humans and other birds. She is trying to retire so certain species are no longer available from her, but she might be able to send you in the right direction to find a reliable breeder. c.

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Yeah she no longer breed RB2s, and while she did tell me who she sold her breeding pair to, when I called the woman was actually trying to get rid of them! I have contacted several breeders about it and will make sure I have long discussions with all of them before I choose! I do feel really badly for the baby birds who leave this woman's care. It's really sad when people who don't know what they are doing breed birds. I still haven't gotten a reply to my email asking for all my money back. I will give her until tomorrow then I will call again. My bank's fraud department is supposed to call me back in the next 24 hours and it will do my best to make them understand the situation. I am hoping the lack of a real contract will help me persuade them that this is not the well run business they try and portray themselves as.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you Good luck with everything. It's so scary to think people like this exist in the avian community...