Young cockatiel not interested in formula

Hi all, I'm new to the forum!
I welcomed a new young cockatiel into my home (currently one other 1-yr-old tiel) about 1 week ago. I'm not sure how old he is but he is fully feathered, probably a month or so? Since coming here he seems so interested in playing and exploring that he has started to refuse formula (I use Exact). He started out as 82 grams, which is already less than what my other tiel was at the same age, and now is down to around 78. I know that they start to lose a little weight when they fly, and he does fly around a lot now (trying to follow my other Tiel). But I'm not sure how much weight is normal, and I'm worried that he is not getting enough food. He picks at pellets, millet, and some greens when he copies my older tiel, but I'm not sure how much he is actually eating. He probably takes about 3-4ml of formula each feeding, and I pretty much offer it to him whenever I can (fresh each time of course). He probably begs for food about 5 times a day but never takes much. Should I be worried? He seems active otherwise and keel doesn't feel overly prominent. Any help or advice would be appreciated!

4 weeks is early to wean. I think the earliest they say is around 7-8 but birds should be weaned at their own pace. It is possible that he is older than 1 month. Did you ask the breeder/person who you got him from? If he is still taking it, keep giving it. You may be able to reduce feedings if he is refusing. Do you feed them chop ever?
There is quite a range for weights within the 4-5 week zone, so it's sort of hard to tell if you don't know his actual age. I think they are supposed to get 10% of their body weight in food.
When you feel his keel bone (the one on their chest) does it feel concave? The keel bone can be a less scientific way of estimating a healthy weight. If it is super sharp and concave, your bird is too thin.



At 4-5 weeks, 82g seems normal, but if he's refusing formula, I wonder if he is older, which makes the weights harder to judge.


I am not a cockatiel expert, so hoping more members chime in.



This is slightly exaggerated, as I can feel Noodle's keel bone fairly easily-- it's pointy but she is not underweight--- if it is SUPER pointy (almost inverted on the sides) that is too skinny...but if it just is palpable, that is okay.


This page has some better visuals of birds but they are real birds and I am not sure if they are dead, under sedation or just posing, so seeing them doesn't upset me, but I am just telling you in case you want a heads-up before looking : http://www.scottemcdonald.com/pdfs/Average Weights.pdf

Hmm, you could try mushy foods like a weaning diet. At the parrot shop we would often use soaked Purina Monkey Chow biscuits. There is some controversy over using this due to high protein and such, but my mentor never had an issue using it in 40 years. Make sure it is hot, and offer 1-2 really warm soaked biscuits in a small dish after each attempted hand feeding. Do not expect him to finish the biscuits, they are pretty big. Is the formula you are offering the correct temperature? Tems are VERY important for getting a feed response from baby birds. Formula didn't change when you bought the bird?



Noodles has a great point about fresh fruits and veg: now is the time to start offering. Try to do 3 different fruits or veg per day minimum. Chopped, chunked, shredded, whatever.



At this age yes they lose a bit of weight. They can sustain themselves on a surprisingly little amount of feed at this point, but very soon he should be showing more skills in eating. Keep watching his weight. Do you feel his crop before offering formula? If you feel seeds/pellets in there, he is probably getting enough. But continue to watch close and if he loses too much more weight, be ready to get him to a vet. Do you have a CAV who knows about your little guy?




I am also not a baby cockatiel expert. Most of my above advice is from helping wean babies at the parrot shop, or with baby budgies. They are similar, but not the same as tiels.



Oh, have fun with him. Baby birds are just so dear. We love photos....

noodles123 said:

4 weeks is early to wean. I think the earliest they say is around 7-8 but birds should be weaned at their own pace. It is possible that he is older than 1 month. Did you ask the breeder/person who you got him from? If he is still taking it, keep giving it. You may be able to reduce feedings if he is refusing. Do you feed them chop ever?
There is quite a range for weights within the 4-5 week zone, so it's sort of hard to tell if you don't know his actual age. I think they are supposed to get 10% of their body weight in food.
When you feel his keel bone (the one on their chest) does it feel concave? The keel bone can be a less scientific way of estimating a healthy weight. If it is super sharp and concave, your bird is too thin.



At 4-5 weeks, 82g seems normal, but if he's refusing formula, I wonder if he is older, which makes the weights harder to judge.


I am not a cockatiel expert, so hoping more members chime in.

This is slightly exaggerated, as I can feel Noodle's keel bone fairly easily-- it's pointy but she is not underweight--- if it is SUPER pointy (almost inverted on the sides) that is too skinny...but if it just is palpable, that is okay.


This page has some better visuals of birds but they are real birds and I am not sure if they are dead, under sedation or just posing, so seeing them doesn't upset me, but I am just telling you in case you want a heads-up before looking : http://www.scottemcdonald.com/pdfs/Average Weights.pdf

Click to expand...

Thank you for chiming in! We don't really know exactly how old he is, but maybe he is closer to 5-6ish weeks or so. He definitely acts like he is a bit older, but his weight worries me. I was looking back at my weight log for my older tiel when she was young, and she was closer to 90g already. But I know that size varies between birds...
When I feel his keel, his body condition score seems like a 3/5 based on experience with other birds, but then again I am not a vet. It does not feel super sharp, but I would rather have a fat baby than a lean baby you know what I mean? Maybe he is just a small guy, but I can't help but be worried.

noodles123 said:

This page has some better visuals of birds but they are real birds and I am not sure if they are dead, under sedation or just posing, so seeing them doesn't upset me, but I am just telling you in case you want a heads-up before looking : http://www.scottemcdonald.com/pdfs/Average Weights.pdf

Click to expand...

Wow! That is a great link, thank you for sharing! Will be tucking that one away for future use.

bug_n_flock said:

Hmm, you could try mushy foods like a weaning diet. At the parrot shop we would often use soaked Purina Monkey Chow biscuits. There is some controversy over using this due to high protein and such, but my mentor never had an issue using it in 40 years. Make sure it is hot, and offer 1-2 really warm soaked biscuits in a small dish after each attempted hand feeding. Do not expect him to finish the biscuits, they are pretty big. Is the formula you are offering the correct temperature? Tems are VERY important for getting a feed response from baby birds. Formula didn't change when you bought the bird?



Noodles has a great point about fresh fruits and veg: now is the time to start offering. Try to do 3 different fruits or veg per day minimum. Chopped, chunked, shredded, whatever.



At this age yes they lose a bit of weight. They can sustain themselves on a surprisingly little amount of feed at this point, but very soon he should be showing more skills in eating. Keep watching his weight. Do you feel his crop before offering formula? If you feel seeds/pellets in there, he is probably getting enough. But continue to watch close and if he loses too much more weight, be ready to get him to a vet. Do you have a CAV who knows about your little guy?




I am also not a baby cockatiel expert. Most of my above advice is from helping wean babies at the parrot shop, or with baby budgies. They are similar, but not the same as tiels.



Oh, have fun with him. Baby birds are just so dear. We love photos....

Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply! I have never tried the biscuits, but I'll have to look that up. We used the same formula he had been on, so I don't think it's a problem with taste. I do realize that temp can be a very important factor, but unfortunately I don't have a thermometer that I can put in liquid at the moment. For now I test it on my wrist to see if it feels warm. I thought maybe he didn't like the consistency, so I've tried making it thicker/thinner, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I do have an avian vet I take my other child to, but I don't want the visit to stress him out even more at the moment. I will definitely keep weighing him frequently. Right now I offer him pellets (he doesn't seem to like the soaked ones too much), millet, and some fresh kale and a bit of hard boiled egg. He shows interest in them but I feel that he isn't actually eating much. I will keep offering!

I'd most definitely get a thermometer- temperature is hugely important (even within a degree or 2) You can get a candy thermometer for next to nothing at the grocery store.

noodles123 said:

I'd most definitely get a thermometer- temperature is hugely important (even within a degree or 2)

Click to expand...

I will look that up for sure! What temperature should the formula be exactly?

chickpea said:

noodles123 said:

I'd most definitely get a thermometer- temperature is hugely important (even within a degree or 2)

Click to expand...

I will look that up for sure! What temperature should the formula be exactly?

Click to expand...

"Formula MUST be between 104 degrees Fahrenheit (40 degrees Celsius) and 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43.3 degrees Celsius)" cooler than that and they can reject it and hotter than that it can burn their crops etc. (see links below) -- you also need to be SUPER hygienic about it--- think sterile conditions.



http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/74363-so-you-bought-unweaned-baby.html



https://hari.ca/hari/research-facil...cine-pediatrics-housing-feeding-baby-parrots/

Thank you very much! There is so much to learn!

chickpea said:

Thank you very much! There is so much to learn!

Click to expand...

Try to get a digital candy thermometer if at all possible, as these are much easier to read to the degree.

noodles123 said:

chickpea said:

Thank you very much! There is so much to learn!

Click to expand...

Try to get a digital candy thermometer if at all possible, as these are much easier to read to the degree.

Click to expand...

I have one scheduled to arrive tomorrow now! Hopefully he has more of an appetite soon...For today I continued to offer formula and different solid foods. He is quite the active flier, but still hasn't gotten the hang of not flying into walls xD
Thank you again for the help.

Also this great info originally posted by EllenD

Since you've hand-fed other baby parrots before you probably have a better understanding/eduction than most people who come here asking these types of questions, but just to make sure and to save you from any serious issues, heartache, or tragedy that often happens when people take-on hand-feeding such a young baby parrot, I'm going to quickly run-down the most important and NON-OPTIONAL bullet-points that you must follow to a tee or your baby will become sick and suffer potentially fatal health problems:

#1.) The hand-feeding formula that you feed your baby Senegal must ALWAYS be between 104 degrees F and 110 degrees F, and must stay in that temperature range throughout the feeding. One degree colder and your baby can suffer fungal/yeast infections in their Crop and throughout their GI Tract, and this can cause Slow-Crop and Crop-Stasis. Even 1 degree hotter and it will cause burns on your bird's crop that usually cause severe infection and require surgery to remove the burnt portion of the Crop...So you must use a digital cooking/candy thermometer that has a metal probe you can place in the formula and keep in the formula throughout each hand-feeding. If the formula needs to be re-heated because it drops below 104 degrees F, do not microwave the already mixed formula because it will develop "hot pockets" that will burn your bird's Crop no matter how well you mix it; instead just microwave water or unflavored Pedialyte, whichever you're using to mix the formula, and then add it slowly to the already mixed formula...

#2.) At 3 weeks old your baby Senegal should have most of it's down feathers but very little to no outer feathers...I don't know if you have a real, proper Brooder that you are keeping your baby in, but if not then you need to at a minimum make a "homemade' Brooder that will keep the amibient temperature your baby is kept in within the correct temperature ranges...If the ambient temperature your baby bird is kept in is too cool they will develop the same fungal/yeast infections and problems as they do when the formula is too cold....If your baby bird does not yet have ALL of their down-feathers yet and still has bare skin exposed, then they MUST be kept in an ambient temperature between 90-95 degrees F at all times except for when you take them out for a hand-feeding or a short handling. Once all of their down feathers are in and there is no more bare skin exposed, but they still don't have all of their outer feathers grown in fully, their ambient temperature must always be between 75-80 degrees F. For a baby Senegal Parrot, who normally wean between the ages of 10 weeks old and 13 weeks old, they should be able to be transferred from their Brooder and into their first "Weaning" or "Starter" Cage around the age of 6-7 weeks old.

To Make a Handmade Brooder: All you need is a cardboard box that is large enough to have a front half and a back half with two different temperature zones, but not too large a box. You need an electric heating-pad that has an adjustible temperature, which will sit underneath the back-half of the box at all times. You'll also need an ambient thermometer that you can place/hang/stick in the back-half of the box, and this is what you will look at to make sure that the back-half of the box is always within the correct temperature range. Then you cover the back-half of the box with a towel or blanket to lock-in the heat in the back-half of the box, leaving the front half of the box uncovered and off of the heating-pad. Once you get this all set-up, turn on the heating-pad to low or medium and cover the back-half of the box, and wait for about 30 minutes for the temperature to reach it's max, and if it's not withint the correct temperature range then you turn it up a setting and wait another 30 minutes. Make sure you have a good, accurate ambient thermometer, the best and cheapest ones being the Accurite digital thermometers that you can just sit in the back of the box and that you can buy at any Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. for around $10-$15 (same for the digital cooking/candy thermometer with the metal probe, Walmart sells them for around $15 in the cooking gadget section)...Leave the front half of the box uncovered and off of the heating-pad so that your baby bird can go to the front of the box if they get too warm...Once your baby is around 6 weeks old or so, or when he/she has all of their outer feathers grow-in and no down-feathers are exposed, then you can move your bird into their Weaning/Starter Cage.

#3.) As far as the hand-feedings go, at only 3 weeks old your baby Senegal MUST be fed every 2-3 hours INCLUDING OVERNIGHT! They cannot go 6-8 hours overnight without being fed every 2-3 hours until they are between 4-5 weeks old. So you unfortuantely have to set an alarm for every 2 hours and get up every 2 hours, check his/her crop, and if it's just about empty at 2 hours then that's the interval that you'll feed them at for the next week. If his/her crop is not almost empty at 2 hours, then check it again at 3 hours and it should be almost empty, and that will be your feeding interval...

During the daytime and during the night until he/she is at least 4 weeks old (before they can go a full 6-8 hours overnight without being fed), their Crop should be almost empty when you give them their next hand=feeding, but won't be completely empty. The only time their Crop will be completely empty between feedings will be at their first morning feeding at 4 weeks, when they can go a full 6-8 hours without being fed...At only 3 weeks old they cannot go any longer than 3 hours maximum without being fed 24 hours a day, and that's why their Crop will never be completely empty at any time of a hand-feeding...Again, at 4 weeks old he/she will be able to go overnight for 6 hours or so without a hand-feeding, and their Crop will be completely empty first thing in the morning when you give them their first hand-feeding of the day; otherwise, during the rest of the day their Crop will be almost empty between hand-feedings, but not quite.

As far as how much formula you should give them during each hand-feeding, I never really go by a "set amount" based on their age as some breeders do...I always go by the size and feeling of their Crop, which you need to always be looking at and feeling lightily with the pad of your finger. At the end of all hand-feedings, their Crop should look very large and round, and when you feel it very gently with your finger (don't ever push on the Crop, just lightly run your finger over it), it should feel like a very full balloon that still has a little bit of 'give" to it. It should not feel tight, if it does then you are feeding them too much formula. And you cannot expect them to stop their feeding-response at the correct time; usually they do actually stop eating and stop their feeding-response and start rejecting the syringe close to the correct time, but not necessarily...YOU CAN NEVER, EVER TRY TO FORCE MORE FORMULA INTO THEM, WHEN THEY'RE DONE THEY'RE DONE, BUT YOU CAN STOP GIVING THEM ANY MORE FORMULA BEFORE THEIR FEEDING-RESPONSE STOPS AND BEFORE THEY THINK THEY ARE DONE, BASED ON THE SIZE AND FEEL OF THEIR CROP.

It's extremely important that you fully "Abundance-Wean" your Senegal, which means that you allow HIM/HER to make the decision when a hand-feeding is removed, and when the amount of formula in each hand-feeding is reduced. If YOU make the decision to remove a hand-feeding each day, or to reduce the amount of formula in each hand-feeding, this is called "Force-Weaning" your baby bird, and it usually results in severe, life-long Neurological and Behavioral issues, as well as serious and sometimes life-threatening physical medical problems...So allow your bird to tell you when a feeding will be rejected or the amount of formula per feeding will be reduced.

Typically the amount of formula they eat per hand-feeding and the number of hand-feedings per day will stay the same until a Senegal Parrot is between 5-6 weeks old, at which time he'll start eating more and more solid food, thus eating less formula. I would typically start putting millet-sprays inside of the Brooder at the age of 4 weeks-old, so that they start learning what solid-food is and will start picking at it and eventually eating it. At 5 weeks old I place a bowl of either pellets of seeds, whichever you are planning on weaning him onto as his daily "staple" food, inside of the Brooder, and once they start eating a good amount of the pellets or seed-mix (or both if you like), then they'll start to Abundance-Wean themselves. At the point where you move them into their Weaning/Starter Cage (when their outer feathers grow-in and no down-feathers are exposed, around 6 weeks old or so), then you're going to also start giving them a bowl of fresh Veggies, dark leaafy Greens, and a very small portion of Fruit every day as well, so that they'll learn what they are and to eat them.

Eventually you'll get to the point that they'll be eating a hand-feeding first thing in the morning and just before bed, and they'll be eating their pellets/seed-mix and fresh Veggies and Greens throughout the day...Then around the time they fully-Fledge, they'll eliminate the morning hand-feeding, and will basically be fully Abundance-Weaned, for a Senegal this will happen between 11-13 weeks old. They will typically continue to beg for a hand-feeding at night just before bed even after they are fully Abundance-Weaned, and this is called a "Comfort-Feeding", and it can continue for a week or two after they actually fully-wean. This is normal, it's not that they're hungry, it's just a comfort thing...

the above has great info, and i will link a thread we put a bunch of baby info in.

I would offer oatmeal nice and warm and grind in some pellets to it. Cooked lentils, or quinoa are good as well. Kake us kinda hard, try romaine or Swiss chard. And bell pepper, fresh corn cut off the cob, cooked sweet potatoes, green beans, peas, and lots of other veggies you can offer. Yiu can also add a little yogurt with live acidophilus culture and other cultures but no artificial sweetners to the formula. Might help balance gut flora. He might have a yeast overgrowth problem.
Warm us critical fir babies, keep them warm.

Volkmsns makes a heat simmer and serve parrot food, that mine all enjoy during these colder days. It has carrots lentils, seeds and other yummiest in it.

Babies can get sick easy,, with overgrowth of bacteria or yeast in crop.. so a vet visit might be needed to be safe..

Thus us a link to a thread myself abd others but lots if baby burd info and links in..
http://www.parrotforums.com/breedin...by-black-capped-conure-sleeping-too-much.html

Laurasea said:

the above has great info, and i will link a thread we put a bunch of baby info in.

I would offer oatmeal nice and warm and grind in some pellets to it. Cooked lentils, or quinoa are good as well. Kake us kinda hard, try romaine or Swiss chard. And bell pepper, fresh corn cut off the cob, cooked sweet potatoes, green beans, peas, and lots of other veggies you can offer. Yiu can also add a little yogurt with live acidophilus culture and other cultures but no artificial sweetners to the formula. Might help balance gut flora. He might have a yeast overgrowth problem.
Warm us critical fir babies, keep them warm.

Volkmsns makes a heat simmer and serve parrot food, that mine all enjoy during these colder days. It has carrots lentils, seeds and other yummiest in it.

Babies can get sick easy,, with overgrowth of bacteria or yeast in crop.. so a vet visit might be needed to be safe..

Thus us a link to a thread myself abd others but lots if baby burd info and links in..
http://www.parrotforums.com/breedin...by-black-capped-conure-sleeping-too-much.html

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all the info! I truly appreciate it. I do worry about fungal/bacterial infections...I have been trying to keep him as warm as possible but with the cold weather it has been difficult to keep the entire house uniformly heated. So far poops look good, but I'm not sure if they would even look that different in the case of bacterial overgrowth. I will keep a vet visit in mind for sure to have a fecal done. Luckily crop slow-down does not seem to be an issue whenever I feel his crop. I will try the foods you suggested! He likes to nibble at whatever my other tiel eats, so he will like corn for sure, haha.