Your Calling. Change this.

[Timothy]

So many of you probably know that a new record was set for number of species on the critically endangerd list, birds are at an all time high; extinct in the wild is the next spot.

Several things cause this such as deforestation, trapping, climate change, over population, etc etc.

I do what i can, being financially stuck at the moment. But i call on YOU!

Make a difference. I'm not saying donate to one of these shady organizations. Check out the place if you plan to donate.

Spreading the knowledge is a huge step.

Here is a link to some info.

I don't want to see any more birds go extinct. Not any type of creature Their beauty gone forever from this world. (except maybe mosquitos and those fast, black spiders )

News | BirdLife

 

[Betrisher]

Y'know, Timothy, this has been a subject near to my heart for many, many years. My degree is in Botany/Zoology, but I also took many non-credit courses in ecology and environmental resource management. So I know what happens and how and why it does.

Have you ever tried to discuss these concepts with someone who either doesn't want to know about them or who is bound and determined to disagree with proven methods of conservation? It's a nightmare!

Just recently, I had a knock-down, drag-out fight with my friend's husband. He's angry that our local sand dunes (the largest coastal dune system IN THE WORLD, btw) have been closed to off-road vehicles. He's been trying to get together a vigilante group to obstruct the Parks and Wildlife vehicles as they go to put up signs and barriers to prevent the yahoos from spoiling the dunes.

Now, I know from my years of study that off-road vehicles can cause immeasurable damage to sensitive coastal successions by leaving gouged-out tracks, by squashing the smaller herbs and forbs in the understorey and by uprooting saplings of the smaller shrubs and trees as they try to take hold. I also know that petrol fumes and leakage can cause serious problems to native mammals and birds, especially when the petrol is leaked into the puddles formed as potholes in the vehicles' tracks. Birds come to drink from the pooled water and die of hydrocarbon poisoning!

All these things might sound trivial from the outside, but when you multiply the effects across the entire ecosystem, it need only take a few years to get a complete degradation of the system to a point where it may or may not recover. We've already seen this sort of thing happening in our Australian temperate rainforests, where the admission of hoofed animals has caused the understoreys to wither and die, thus removing the cover required by the giant trees' saplings to germinate. Hence, shrinking rainforest. I need not mention Brazil...

Now, that's just one local example of ignorance despoiling a habitat and one example of a single bloke working to prevent conservation. Multiply those effects by ten or twenty or by hundreds or thousands and you can see what a huge problem it all is. When I taught school (primary or grade school), I tried to teach my classes about the 'systems concept'. That is that all ecosystems, habitats, niches, environments etc are interconnected and feed off one another to exist in balance. If you change something tiny here, that change could result in something major and massive happening over there. I hope like mad that some of my lessons sank in, but I really think not... At least, not to the extent that I'd hoped it would.

I learned the concepts of landscape/atmosphere systems about forty years ago. That means forty years have gone by and I still haven't seen a concerted education program put in place in my country (or in any other country to my knowledge) that will teach children WHY things like pollution, dune degradation, trampling by livestock, fencing, road building etc etc etc need to be done with consideration for the environment.

Here's another good example for you. Australian freeways are long and wide and dangerous. When I say 'long', I mean they go for thousands of miles! That means 'thousands of miles without a safe place for a kangaroo to cross'. Owing to the stupidity of humans who drive too fast or too tired or too drunk, the roads authorities put up solid concrete barriers to separate the going and coming lanes. This means that if a kangaroo or wallaby tries to cross the road, he will meet not only oncoming traffic, but also a barrier that forces him to turn and retrace his steps. Of course, this usually doesn't happen in time and our freeways are littered with marsupial roadkill! All because no one thinks to put animal corridors in the median barriers.

As you can probably tell, I get SO MAD at the stupidities I see all the time, but my days of vigilanteism are long past. The other thing I've learned is that being a vigilante isn't a noble act: it's usually a criminal one and will only get you arrested for breaking the law. Therefore, widespread public education is the ONLY way to go in terms of making everyone aware of WHY we need to conserve and HOW we should go about it. I wish you luck in your crusade!

I'll shuddup now or I'll still be writing next Wednesday... :22_yikes:

 

[Kiwibird]

Please don't even get me started on this subject

Perhaps if we weren't destroying the rainforest so they can plant more GM soy and corn for COW FEED, polluting the oceans with trash and radiation (***ushima? Still leaking!) perhaps many of these rare species who LIVE in these areas wouldn't be going extinct. Notice it's mainly sea birds and birds native to the jungles that are going extinct. I don't see chickens and turkeys (or cows and pigs) on the "critically endangered" list this year:20:

Edit- REALLY? It stars out the first 3 letters of my reference to the F * U * K * ushima power plant? You know, that big nuclear facility in japan that is STILL leaking radiation into the Pacific ocean with no good guess when it will stop that's killing sea life as well as things that live NEAR the sea (like sea birds?).:52: Well, we best not whisper about that large amount of oil from the ***pwater ***izon that "magically disappeared" (not).

 

[Timothy]

Awesome responses guys. I know VERY LITTLE about whats going on and why. And i Care. this just goes to show how scarce the proper information is. You have to actually dig in the internet to find research of whats going on. its so sad. Betrisher, that was super enlightening. Bravo to both of you. Im going to be researching whats going on alot now. It is so sad. I'm a man, and i'm tearing up.

 

[Kiwibird]

Let me help you out Timothy (and these are just the 4 royal human screw ups I cited)-

http://***ushimaupdate.com

Monsanto and Cargill Plan to Use GM Soy as Farmed Fish Feed

Environmental Destruction | Why Vegan? | Vegan Outreach

https://www.nwf.org/What-We-Do/Protect-Habitat/Gulf-Restoration/Oil-Spill/Effects-on-Wildlife.aspx

Edit: Un "***"-ing believable! It stared them out AGAIN in the web address of a very reliable source for information about this disaster! That's not even how you spell the "bad" word it's trying to star out. And just what would happen if someone from Japan with that as their SURNAME (as it is a Japanese surname and this is a very diverse forum) joined this forum? Would this site *** their name out or just not let them join?

BTW it's f u k ushimaupdate.com (you get the picture)

 

[Timothy]

Let me help you out Timothy (and these are just the 4 royal human screw ups I cited)-

http://***ushimaupdate.com

Monsanto and Cargill Plan to Use GM Soy as Farmed Fish Feed

Environmental Destruction | Why Vegan? | Vegan Outreach

https://www.nwf.org/What-We-Do/Protect-Habitat/Gulf-Restoration/Oil-Spill/Effects-on-Wildlife.aspx

LOL @ The stars again. I'm like great the links are dead.. oh!

This will help out tons thank you. Keep spreading the word! This planet and it's deserving rightful inhabitants are in peril!

 

[Timothy]

Although, about the whole vegan part, that's gonna be rough for me; the only meat i don't eat is pork. I try to find meat that isn't produced in meat mills. Farmers market meat and dairy products is what i do.

Edit: I live on the gulf coast of Florida and am witness to the impact of the BP oil spill. just rereading that article you posted is getting me very emotional. I, and many of my friends, were devastated when we first saw this happen and we still are.

 

[Kiwibird]

Although, about the whole vegan part, that's gonna be rough for me; the only meat i don't eat is pork. I try to find meat that isn't produced in meat mills. Farmers market meat and dairy products is what i do.

Edit: I live on the gulf coast of Florida and am witness to the impact of the BP oil spill. just rereading that article you posted is getting me very emotional. I, and many of my friends, were devastated when we first saw this happen and we still are.

And I was GOING to put that I wasn't trying to drudge up controversy over meat eaters VS non meat eaters. It was just an informative article I more hope inspires people to think about what impact their food is having not to become a vegan Actually, veganism is very difficult and has great potential to make you feel like crap if done improperly. I've been a vegetarian for over 15 years, but I do still eat some organic eggs, honey, products with yeast, fermented products and dairy (none of which are considered vegan). There are also many other things people can do if they still want to eat meat. They could be totally vegan one day a week, they could cut back on the amount of meat/dairy in general, they could eliminate one or two types of meat from their daily diet and only eat it on special occasions, they could hunt/raise their own meat or buy ethically raised meat from small-scale, low environmental impact farms.... Lots of options But to make a choice, you first have to be informed! And just cutting out pork is a big step in the right direction so good job on that!

I can imagine if you had to be in the midst of the gulf disaster, you understand how negatively it impacted the region and ocean. That oil did not ALL magically get "eaten by bacteria so please don't worry about it anymore" like the news said :20: I hope your family or friends families were not horribly impacted by this preventable disaster.

 

[veimar]

Please don't even get me started on this subject

That's exactly how I feel about that too! I've seen a lot of documentaries and read articles about disappearing species and the conservation efforts. Right now I'm following the story of the abotti cockatoo (a sulphur crested species) - there are only about 10 left.
http://indonesian-parrot-project.org/pdf_files/Masakambing--AFA_4-28-09.pdf
And I just read that the endangered mexican parrot is coming back and increasing in numbers.
I don't have much money to donate, but spreading awareness is something we all can do. And I dream of going somewhere to South America to participate in macaw conservation project.

 

[pycthedragon]

Edit- REALLY? It stars out the first 3 letters of my reference to the F * U * K * ushima power plant? You know, that big nuclear facility in japan that is STILL leaking radiation into the Pacific ocean with no good guess when it will stop that's killing sea life as well as things that live NEAR the sea (like sea birds?).:52: Well, we best not whisper about that large amount of oil from the ***pwater ***izon that "magically disappeared" (not).

I studied F u k ushima and Chernobyl in my spare time and while I do believe that they definitely are undercutting their work with the former and there's some serious irresponsibility going on, the latter did release more radioactive material into the environment. The latter spread much more radioactive material across an area with a much faster immediate effect - to put it kindly, the nearby town of Pripyat received 1/4th the typical fatal dose of radiation in a day after the incident. However, I cannot even begin to elaborate how dangerous other alternatives are to the environment.

While nuclear power is definitely not the final answer (I like the idea of solar roadways but I don't think the technology is quite there yet) it is MUCH safer to both humans and the environment than any current alternative, outside of solar and wind power, which can't be used everywhere yet. To compare, 33 incidents have occurred in nuclear power plants. In every incident besides F u k ushima and Chernobyl, the radiation was contained within the facility and nearby areas did not have notable increases in radiation levels.

The very basics of how nuclear power works is that a fission reaction, which "splits" Uranium or Plutonium atoms into smaller atoms, releases energy, which turns into heat. The heat heats up water in a closed pipe. In another pipe that may connect to a reservoir of some sort, the closed pipe is used to warm up this water, which is used to move turbines. The water from the pipe that gets into contact with the nuclear process is not exposed to the outside. The most severe current risk (outside of a severe nuclear incident which has only happened twice, one by archaic design and the other due to a combination of unpredictable disaster and lack of maintenance) is both uranium mining and the heated water possibly affecting marine environments, but this absolutely pales in comparison to what our current alternatives are.

We have coal. Coal is what provides energy for most power plants today. Coal emits large amounts of carbon into the atmosphere - this which current laws do not provide enough protection in the atmosphere for. Coal also requires large quarries to obtain, destroys nearby ecosystems and water quality nearby, and uses gasoline for transport.

Gasoline is primarily used in vehicles. I hope we change to electric some time fully in the future. Gasoline also releases carbon emissions into the atmosphere, which contribute further to global warming. Drilling for oil can cause tremendous damage on nearby communities with their drinking water, the toll on wildlife is probably much greater.

Natural gas is different. It loads methane into the atmosphere, some people consider it worse than carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in terms of contributing to global warming - although research is still not clear on this (some claim that methane breaks up faster thus making it less harmful). I don't know a ton about natural gas mining techniques but I am positive they likely have negative effects. Also, the cows that you brought up also contribute greatly to the amount of methane in the atmosphere, contributing further to climate change.

The difference between nuclear fuel's mining and these minings though is that nuclear fuel goes much further for the amount. Plutonium is produced in nuclear reactors which can further be used to create energy.

I honestly project that as solar power and wind power catch on with both better technologies and placed in areas that can support it, nuclear fuel is the best option until we can better harness the power of the sun in areas that may have less sun or snowfall covered areas, like the north of the US/Canada. Out of all things, Nuclear power is the safest on both the environment and people outside of solar/wind... but responsibility is required. A lot of Chernobyl's problems were caused by poor design choices and poor decisions on that fateful night. F u k ushima can be attributed to the dangerous area and not keeping up with standards. We absolutely must be responsible with this kind of energy, but if we are, we can use it to replace current energies, which, while seemingly convenient, are extremely destructive on everything around us. Hopefully by that point we will be able to have a nuclear fusion reactor (combining atoms) that will have no harmful bi-products and is self sustaining. But we're not there yet.

...as long as people stop denying it.

Although, about the whole vegan part, that's gonna be rough for me; the only meat i don't eat is pork. I try to find meat that isn't produced in meat mills. Farmers market meat and dairy products is what i do.

Edit: I live on the gulf coast of Florida and am witness to the impact of the BP oil spill. just rereading that article you posted is getting me very emotional. I, and many of my friends, were devastated when we first saw this happen and we still are.

And I was GOING to put that I wasn't trying to drudge up controversy over meat eaters VS non meat eaters. It was just an informative article I more hope inspires people to think about what impact their food is having not to become a vegan Actually, veganism is very difficult and has great potential to make you feel like crap if done improperly. I've been a vegetarian for over 15 years, but I do still eat some organic eggs, honey, products with yeast, fermented products and dairy (none of which are considered vegan). There are also many other things people can do if they still want to eat meat. They could be totally vegan one day a week, they could cut back on the amount of meat/dairy in general, they could eliminate one or two types of meat from their daily diet and only eat it on special occasions, they could hunt/raise their own meat or buy ethically raised meat from small-scale, low environmental impact farms.... Lots of options But to make a choice, you first have to be informed! And just cutting out pork is a big step in the right direction so good job on that!

I can imagine if you had to be in the midst of the gulf disaster, you understand how negatively it impacted the region and ocean. That oil did not ALL magically get "eaten by bacteria so please don't worry about it anymore" like the news said :20: I hope your family or friends families were not horribly impacted by this preventable disaster.

I have to give you credit for being very respectful of other people's eating habits. Let's just say that on my travels on the internet vegans/vegetarians have not been so kind...

I don't necessarily think that eating meat is horrible in of itself, but in its current state, oh hell yes it is. Having the overstocked factory farms is gravely contributing both to lower quality meat, spread of disease and especially the methane that I mentioned earlier. Not to mention the elephant in the room - ANIMAL WELFARE. I always hold myself to this tenant - as long as it was treated with respect, then I don't have a problem with it. I honestly wouldn't mind having to pay more for meat if it was taken care of, and that's coming from someone who's on a budget!

Is it just me or does taking good care of your animals make their eggs and meat taste 10 million times better? My brother raises chickens and takes very good care of them and the eggs from them are absolutely delicious! He even built a special pen for the one hen that kept getting bullied by other chickens. They're a happy (if not very strange) lot.

 

[Timothy]

Pyc, I have to get to bed so i will reply in detail tomorrow, but i do want to mention YES, tking care of livestock does infact make the meat sweeter and the eggs tastier. I only eat eggs from that of friends and family and they are so much better. The meat is so sweet, and i feel like i get more energy from it and have to eat less (Chicken) probably because they feed the chickens a good diet, unlike these meat mills.

 

[Kiwibird]

Ever heard one of the major driving factors behind popularizing cars was because of ANIMAL pollution? Basically, in large cities like NYC around the turn of the century, the horse crap was piling up so high, it was becoming a public hazard. Cars were regards as the answer to everyones "pollution" woes at the time Basically, to date EVERY type of "alternative" power has just as negative (albeit different) impacts no one wants to address BEFORE implementing them on such a large scale we can't "live without them" anymore. Solar and wind are no exception. Sure, they are clean in the sense there is no pollutants being released into the air, but have you read about what is happening to local wildlife living in the vicinity of large-scale wind and solar plants? Birds are literally falling from the skies over solar plants because the heat coming off thousands of reflective panels on a sunny day is burning them alive. Birds are flying into the windmills and dying. As these solar and wind "farms" become more common and grow bigger, the negative impact is becoming more apparent. Hydroelectric is one of (IMO) the best in CERTAIN areas where the geography is conducive, but when massive redirection of naturals water ways is going on (such as the three gorges dam), severe ecological ramifications are happening. Hydrothermal energy is in it's infancy, but preliminary findings have shown a very real probability that if implemented on a large scale in certain areas with shallow fault lines, the process has potential to cause man-made earthquakes.

I honestly think that nuclear (at this point in time) has the potential to be the safest "clean" energy option. However, building a nuclear plant by the ocean in a KNOWN tsunami and earthquake prone area with NO REAL forethought into special safety measures is absolutely unacceptable. The fact they have been "unable" to stop the flow of contaminated rainwater flowing into the Pacific for 3 YEARS with no end in sight is "riot in the streets" level of unacceptable. That has global impacts, and they are in fact starting to find abnormally and dangerously high levels of radiation in sea life and it IS reaching OUR shores (take a long time for it to drift across the ocean, but it is, and theres more to come). Personally, I place my bets on some of the exotic particles they are discovering at CERN and LHC. Of course, all of that is very much in it's infancy, but I think they are still debating whether or not they have found the higgs boson and either have it in their grasp or are *almost* there.Imagine the potential of refining our technology to be able to control the point at which certain particles are matter or energy? And as corny and sic-fi nonsense as it sounds, I think antimatter has HUGE potential as the answer to limitless energy.

And I do try to be a respectful vegetarian I've been one long enough, I get annoyed by some of the "vocal" ones. Get real, locking yourself in a chicken coop makes you look crazy, not someone people want to have a intelligent discussion with where they possibly take something positive away from it. Those whack-jobs over at PETA make ALL veggies look crazy. The funniest thing is, most of the VERY vocal vegetarians are ones who haven't been so for very long, and will go back to eating meat within a few years max. I do it because I believe in it, not because it's "cool" or I want to "fit in" somewhere...

It's clearly not for everyone, and I get that. I also get some people have never made the connection before of where all this meat and dairy and eggs are coming from, nor the ramifications (for the animal, for their health, and for the planet). What I don't get is people who DO know the facts and choose to do absolutely nothing or even worse, take this "defiant" stance of "I'll eat factory farmed meat 3 meals a day just to prove a point":20: I have a "starred out" response for that stance because it's just plain ignorant...

 

[pycthedragon]

I've heard of the wind turbine thing, but I've never heard of the solar panel thing. I guess it's not gotten a lot of headway. One thing I like about the solar panel roadways is that it would probably reflect a lot less heat, and it would simply be reflecting the heat that current roadways do already (not the best thing in the world but certainly not the least).

Hydroelectric power unfortunately isn't the solution either. The creation of such dams can cause immense change to an environment - almost as much as digging for oil. You're essentially transforming the entire terrain to support a huge reservoir and waterfall where it wasn't before, causing huge effects on the river system and surrounding areas. I would personally say that all three though are much better than the most common fuels like coal or natural gas.

I really do believe that Fusion power is the way of the future but it's not in a usable state yet. Fusion, unlike Fission (our current "nuclear" power) does not produce any bad substances (just Helium, which could be used in alternate applications). It has a much higher output than Fission but the only problem is that it requires such extreme conditions that it has been difficult to sustain a reaction that gives more energy than it expends. They apparently made very recent advances in this part though, so who knows, fusion energy may be coming our way in a couple of decades.

Antimatter would be interesting but very difficult to use - you can't really contain antimatter in a state that can be transported and unlocked controllable due to its very volatile nature - it combines with matter into pure energy. If you could though it could pretty much outclass all energy sources - but be careful. That much energy could emit large amounts of gamma radiation that would seriously harm nearby life and creatures. See, the highest energy light particles are gamma rays and they have such small wavelengths and high energies that they can cause cancer through mutations very easily. I almost believe that antimatter would be "too strong" since it would be extremely difficult to control. idk if the Higgs Field could be used to harness energy personally. I still think Fusion is the future. It essentially releases the most powerful force in all of nature - the simply titled "Strong Force" - and makes it on a macroscopic level. It's still in its infancy though.

Science is fun!

Here's a totally wild idea (that might work with your CERN thing). Have you ever heard of "Hawking Radiation"? It is a radiation of particles theoretically emitted by black holes due to quantum effects. Now that's just crazy, right? Well, basically, all the time in "empty" space, there are all these random changes where particles are created and then destroyed almost instantly later - this is because you can't measure what's going on and if there's nothing there, then you can measure it as 0. Anyways, at a black hole event horizon, one may shoot off away from the hole while the other falls in, emitting a particle. What if we got a crazy source of energy that way by simply extracting it from "empty space"? That would be crazy.

 

[Mekaisto]

I'm very proud of how much environmental groups have changed over the years (although there is still a LOOONG way to go!)
Rather than 'save the species', we are beginning to understand just how important it is to 'save the ecosystem'.

Yes, orangutans are endangered, but breeding a thousand and releasing them back into the wild is useless unless we stop deforestation, prevent poaching and illegal logging, and help preserve the plants and animals that traditionally inhabit the forest.

Breeding Spix's macaw is important, but what is even more important has been the buy-back and protection of thousands of hectares of Caatinga, the removal of goats and other feral animals, the planting of native plants and the gradual return of native animals. It has been a pleasure to watch the diversity of an area flourish, simply due to the passion and guidance of a few dedicated individuals.

On the other hand, I live in Australia where we are currently undergoing an extremely frustrating time with our current Prime Minister, who seems to care less for the environment than I had thought possible.
According to him, the Great Barrier Reef is a dumping ground, climate change is a myth, and solar power is folly

 

[Mike17]

I wish that the billions of dollars wasted on "climate models" had been put into nature conservation. A few weeks ago I watched a show on TV about park rangers in Zimbabwe chasing poachers around a game reserve there, with pathetic equipment and virtually unarmed, against poachers with AK47s. It's a similar story right across Africa, and of course we have deforestation across Asia, South America, PNG... needless to say, I'm a climate change sceptic, or should I say, realist- the climate has been changing since the Earth was formed. There is no "normal" climate for this planet, and I'm tired of the lies and alarmism from the "Catastrophic man-man climate brigade". I work in weather and have some background in climatology so my position is not formed from ignorance.

 

[Timothy]

I wish that the billions of dollars wasted on "climate models" had been put into nature conservation. A few weeks ago I watched a show on TV about park rangers in Zimbabwe chasing poachers around a game reserve there, with pathetic equipment and virtually unarmed, against poachers with AK47s. It's a similar story right across Africa, and of course we have deforestation across Asia, South America, PNG... needless to say, I'm a climate change sceptic, or should I say, realist- the climate has been changing since the Earth was formed. There is no "normal" climate for this planet, and I'm tired of the lies and alarmism from the "Catastrophic man-man climate brigade". I work in weather and have some background in climatology so my position is not formed from ignorance.

Mike, i also am a huge skeptic about so called "Global Warming" However, regardless of the effects our civilization is having on the earth's climate, there are still major issues as stated above of birds that drink from puddles filled with waste from cars etc. I Used to live in Trenton NJ and have been to NY. I have been to Lancaster PA and way out in farmlands all over the east coast. I definitely can tell a difference in the breathable air. Just the thickness to it. I do agree with you, too much money is going into research and time models, not enough is going into actually doing something. I go around my neighborhood once every 2 weeks with a box of trash bags to clean up litter. And this isn't a bad neighborhood. And yes i need a Box. It's as if i'm the only one who does something about it. (I know that isn't true)

 

[Betrisher]

Mekaisto, I couldn't agree with you more! It's the Big Picture we need to see: the forest rather than the trees.

Extinctions will happen no matter what. It's part of evolution or, if you will, the unfolding of Life on Earth. If we acted to prevent every single extinction, then no new species would evolve because the earth would already be full enough and diverse enough. In a nutshell, what we need to do is try to minimise our imprint on the planet.

One little factoid we Nature Lovers often forget is that human beings are part of the equation too. Along with all the other species, we take our chances with the way our biology pans out. We also grow and evolve. It could be that we'll evolve ourselves out of existence in the end, with our quest for ever more wealth and power. Who knows?

BUT - we do have a place on earth and because, like it or not, we're the Top Predator, we will have unfortunate effects on other species. That's just the way Nature works. Our job is to work out how to husband our planet so that all species are given the best possible chance to live out their roles.

Regarding food animals: hmmmmm... That's a hard one. I, for one, enjoy eating meat. I doubt I'll stop eating meat any time soon. I'm aware that most of the creatures who provide my meat were bred specifically to do that and that alone. The beasts we eat no longer exist in Nature because, by and large, they've been bred up solely to serve as food items. I don't have a problem with that.

My problem, of course, is with the ways in which these food animals are treated. Feed lots, for example, and battery hen houses and piggeries are all apostasies against Nature and ought to be banned. The great autistic animal behaviourist, Temple Grandin, has it right: we owe those animals the very best in care and housing and a gentle death because they lay down their lives for our table. My personal opinion is that fast food outlets (especially McDonalds and K'Chucky Fried Chicken) are the worst consumer in terms of wanting battery-produced animals for quick processing, transport and consumption. Do we boycott those food outlets, though? Largely, no.

(Well... I do... the stuff they sell tastes about as much like food as my stinky old riding boots do!)

Getting all humid about the decline of the Strix Macaw or the plight of the Orangutan is one thing. Sadly, those creatures will probably be casualties of evolution BEFORE humanity saw the light. It's our responsibility to make sure the following generations do see the light and make changes to prevent the kinds of human excesses that cause the loss of habitats.

Remember: the advent of the dinosaurs saw the extinctions of many creatures that were either eaten or out-competed by the massive lizards. BUT - the dinosaurs were subject to extinction as well. Just because we observe the decline of species, it doesn't mean every one of them is our fault. All we can do is what we can do and it requires education of every human being on the planet to make better decisions.

Oh, and FWIW, my jury is still out over global warming.

There's no doubt the world is undergoing a warming period. But it also did that during the Dark Ages and again during the reign of Queen Elizabeth the First. There have been periods of inexplicable warming throughout the world's history. Just because things are getting warmer doesn't necessarily mean we really know why. Greenhouse gases are definitely bad - that's a no brainer - but I've read of studies that indicate human gaseous emissions are still less than those of the animal hordes of Africa. Now, no one would advocate the removal of all wildebeests from the planet, would they? LOL!

I reckon the world's most pressing problem is solving the fuel problem. We had the technology to produce clean, renewable fuel when I was at Uni back in the seventies. The only reason we didn't pursue that was that petro-dollars ran the world's economies. Now, all these years later, the Middle East has a bit of a stranglehold on petro-dollars as well as a leetle - erm - unrest? going on. Now would be a great time to finally free the world of hydrocarbon consumption and opt for cleaner energy at last.

It won't happen, though. We're too greedy! Companies, shareholders and individuals want their just deserts. There's no profit to be had in clean fuel. (To my mind, the notion of actually placing a dollar value on what comes from the sun and the earth is kind of mental anyway...) So, we'll be enthralled by the oil-rich nations until it runs out and someone finds a way of charging people for sunlight. :22_yikes:

 

[Scott]

Great thread! :smile049:

It all begins with adopting the mindset to respect our planet by caring for our fellow creatures, conserving resources, reducing pollutants, eating healthier, etc. Some of the things I do such as adopting a mostly vegetarian diet, turning off the water when brushing teeth, driving a highly efficient auto, recycling as much as feasible, etc are lifestyle changes that are motivated by altruism, a spirit of community, and yes, even a modicum of personal gain. Others are more aspirational for the post-retirement years, such as complete vegetarianism, driving an electric (or hydrogen) car, and donating far more time to animal welfare beyond my pets.

While uncoordinated individual efforts are helpful, it will take collaborative and even national efforts to tackle the really large issues of our time.

 

[Timothy]

There are 1,000-1,500 Sun Conures left in the wild as of 2012 (Don't see any recent article) The Spix Macaw is Extinct in the wild. There are less than 37 Blue Throated Macaws left in the wild. That doesn't even Begin to touch the surface of the list. Something as silly as this can help with a solution: Next time you water your potted plants, Keep your plant in a bucket so that the water that would normally drip out the bottem gets pooled, and use it to water a different plant. it sounds silly, and really small. I mean were talking like what, half a litre? half a cup? of water? Yeah but lets say every one in south america did this. It would probably cut water usage by like a guestimated 5%. That's 5% less fuel to prepare and move the water. 5% is a lot. especially when were talking 5% of the general macaw population.

You guys are definitly better at making points than i am on this matter, but that's why i started this thread. I'm not a good arguer. Im bad at making points. But i do try to make a difference. i turn lights off when i leave the room. I turn my ac off an hour before i leave, and while im out of the house. I'm only one person, But there are alot of people out there. Let's start changing our ways. It will trend. We can get it to go viral. Just spread the word.

Keep up the good work guys! You are awesome

 

[Scott]

There are 1,000-1,500 Sun Conures left in the wild as of 2012 (Don't see any recent article) The Spix Macaw is Extinct in the wild. There are less than 37 Blue Throated Macaws left in the wild. That doesn't even Begin to touch the surface of the list. Something as silly as this can help with a solution: Next time you water your potted plants, Keep your plant in a bucket so that the water that would normally drip out the bottem gets pooled, and use it to water a different plant. it sounds silly, and really small. I mean were talking like what, half a litre? half a cup? of water? Yeah but lets say every one in south america did this. It would probably cut water usage by like a guestimated 5%. That's 5% less fuel to prepare and move the water. 5% is a lot. especially when were talking 5% of the general macaw population.

You guys are definitly better at making points than i am on this matter, but that's why i started this thread. I'm not a good arguer. Im bad at making points. But i do try to make a difference. i turn lights off when i leave the room. I turn my ac off an hour before i leave, and while im out of the house. I'm only one person, But there are alot of people out there. Let's start changing our ways. It will trend. We can get it to go viral. Just spread the word.

Keep up the good work guys! You are awesome

Don't underestimate yourself - some folks are capable of rattling off talking points, others donate money but not their time, while a few are excellent facilitators that can inspire. You created a terrific thread, and some of the ideas presented will be adopted and propagate.

Just thought of another item: My 6th grade teacher took the class on a field trip one day..... armed with grasper poles and large plastic bags. Our mission was to remove litter from the entire perimeter of the school. It was an arduous and unpleasant task, but to this day I DO NOT LITTER! When walking around or on a run, I always stop to pick up and tear apart those nasty plastic 6-pack rings. They are especially dangerous to our feathered friends and small mammals.