Wings clipped too short ! Please help

[bill_e]

Ellen, I'd be interested to hear your definition of a "show clip" and why it is deemed cruel and unusual.

 

[LeslieA]

Respectfully or no, I've lived it! Just like you, I currently have a Yellow-side GCC and without my knowledge, his wings were clipped and he flew well over 30yds! A bird before this was chasing me across the floor, I turned into a room and here he came flying to me. We're those 2 just rarities? Did I just find the only GCC's that could fly with only coverts. Wait, my birdsitter full clips his 2 GCCs and they still fly. Hmmm 4 rarities in one county. Hmmmm

 

[LeslieA]

bill e, I didn't know show clips had been deemed cruel either. Everytime I go to my new AV, he asks if I want one for my bird. My understanding is that the feathers less the outermost 2 are cut on both wings. Are we all wrong? Was this a recent change we don't know about? Geez, this is scary. I was asked that less than a month ago. I really need to know.

 

[bill_e]

Leslie, there must be a mix-up in what we call what. As I stated above, Nike has the first two feathers intact and the next 5 clipped just below the coverts. She has perfect control and would actually need at least one more feather clipped to prevent her from gaining altitude. If this is called a "show cut" or "cosmetic cut" there's no way it could be considered cruel and unusual.

 

[SailBoat]

To slow this down; Lets remember that there is no one 'clip style' (number of feathers cut) for all Parrots! The number of Primary feathers that would limit the distance of an Amazon's flight would have near zero effect on a Mac. This is as true for a fully active, fully flighted Amazon, which actively flies with distance each day and that of a perch potato.

Regarding the Show Clip. This clip 'was' defined by local or regional requirements of the Judges that over saw those Shows. Now, thirty years ago in my area that Show Clip was defined as the first (Leading Edge) 4 Primary Feathers are not cut! This to clearly define the Wing in the Rested Position! This definition is not possible with only two leading edge feathers on an Amazon and could easily cause the loss of points, which would likely result in the Amazon not placing. Understanding that the majority of Show Parrot are not allowed to fly much, if any, to assure that the feathers are in perfect to near perfect condition.

It is very important to remember that our CAV's rarely see Fully Flighted Parrots! Especially ones that fly with distance each day (From any place in one's home to any other place in one's home all day, every day). Anyone that has a Fully Flighted Parrot needs to assure that is Boldly Noted in the upper (repeated section) of their Parrots Medical File!. Our Amazon was in for a scheduled Vet Visit early this week and they had been training a CVT into the Avian sector. She serious underestimated our DYH Amazon's strength believing that his beer belly was fat not muscle. Had she opened the file, she would have seen the note.

 

[ChristaNL]

Sailboat: you made me laugh (and thanks for the warning & wise words about clipping on different species) - silly vet!

Here in NL it is not a common to clip a bird - some people do as a matter of fact, others think it is plain cruel. (Always an interesting topic)
(LOL as far as I can figure out it is the reverse with dogs- you hardly ever see a male with testicles on the street - because spaying and neutering is the way to go here, it is the norm...)
That is why I am amazed that in a country where clipping is the norm there are still "professionals" around that appearently have no clue how to do it propperly!

I am so sorry they mutilated this bird!

(and so sweet of someone to offer donorfeathers almost immediately! That would be the best way to "fix" this for now - but I understand clipping the other side and have a semi-flightless (the jury is still out on that appearently) bird for the next year or so is the easiest, safest and fastest way to go.


With this many feathers I would NOT PULL - one or two in an emergengy yes, but a full wingspan of them, no way - that would be torturing the bird.

 

[Davesgirl93]

The single wing clip is banned by the AAV! Your Vet is clearly not a member of the leading organization for Avian Care in North America. Certificates from that organization: CAV - Certified Avian Vet, AQV - Avian Qualified Vet, AV - Avian Vet (member status).

If you paid for this service, there is no reason you should not be able to get your money back. The accepted goal of a Clip is for the Bird to glide /flap to a safe landing! A removal of near all flight feathers from a single wing cause the bird to drop quickly and exposes your bird to possibly breaking a Wing.

What to do:
- Sadly you have to clip the other wing to balance the two wings.
- Your Bird is now classified as: Has the Flight capacity of a Dropped Rock.
- You will have at least a year to as long as two+ years before your bird will have enough flight feathers to glide /flap to the ground
- You will need to train your bird to accept that it can no longer fly (near impossible)
- Move your bird to very low (floor level) cage, perches, water and food sources.

Once you get your money back, start looking for an AAV membered Vet!

Wow, a year?? I never knew. My conure has lost his tailfeathers (all of them) in a very unfortunate accident once but it only took a few months to grow them back. I had no idea wing feathers were different. Thanks for sharing that. I'm pretty sure I'll never have comet clipped again now. He hasn't been clipped since I got him at 4 months (he was already clipped), and I don't think I want to do it now...

 

[LeslieA]

Leslie, there must be a mix-up in what we call what. As I stated above, Nike has the first two feathers intact and the next 5 clipped just below the coverts. She has perfect control and would actually need at least one more feather clipped to prevent her from gaining altitude. If this is called a "show cut" or "cosmetic cut" there's no way it could be considered cruel and unusual.

That's what I'm talking about. I don't see how this could be deemed cruel either.

(I know this is a late reply, but I, as usual, did something dumb and had to go to the ER.)

 

[EllenD]

Ellen, I'd be interested to hear your definition of a "show clip" and why it is deemed cruel and unusual.

I meant doing a "show clip", or any clip at all on only one wing...Sorry if that wasn't clear...I took what Leslie said as some people do a "show cut" on only one wing/side for whatever reason, and that's what I totally deem "cruel and unusual"...

Breeders/Vets used to only clip one wing all the time, and this was considered the right way to do it, I have no idea what the logic behind it was, I'm sure there was some, or they thought that there was...But after it because quite obvious that clipping only one wing puts the bird completely out of balance, causing weakened muscles on one side of their spine, and often causing actual damage to their spine/discs. Fortunately it's rare to find anyone only clipping one wing anymore, although there was an Ekkie breeder that did this last month, so it still happens...

 

[LeslieA]

Please know that a "show clip" is on BOTH wings!

I'm curious, should feathers be rounded for aesthetics?

I found the following quite informative. (I would add "certified avian" to vet references though.)


The First Clipping

Baby birds should not be clipped until they have learned to fly. Learning to fly gives birds confidence, enables them to properly develop their chest muscles, teaches them balance and enables them to learn how to turn and to land safely. Being able to manuever and land properly is very important. Birds have very light, fragile bones which can easily be injured by a clumsy landing or a fall.

When to Clip

Birds should be clipped when their feathers have grown back enough so that they can fly more than a few feet. This is usually after a molt and for most birds about once a year. If clipping is done during a molt, then some of the clipped feathers may still continue to grow out. New feathers may also grow in as well. If you wait until the molt is complete there should be a need for only one clipping. However, if your bird is flying, you may not be able to wait and can do multiple clippings.

What and How Much to Clip

After clipping a bird should still be able to fly a few feet. This enables him to protect himself from a fall, by giving him enough lift to land safely. If clipped too drastically, he won't be able to maneuver to avoid hitting something dangerous or to break his fall. As a result he may injure his beak, breastbone or wings or even break a leg as he plummets to the ground.
<img src="content://com.samsung.android.memo/file/ec60b4ac-7b67-1821-0000-0166c0fef9ef" orientation="0" altText="wingsm.gif" width="608" />
The only feathers which should be clipped are the primary flight feathers. These are the ten long feathers on the outermost part of the wing. Start at the 10th primary (the one furthest from the body) and progress inward. How many primaries you need to clip varies by species and bird.

Feathers should be trimmed back so that the cut end is just under the major coverts. The coverts will thus surround the rough edges and help prevent them from irritating the skin. This is very important, as birds may begin feather plucking if the trimmed feathers are irritating.

Don't clip the feathers on only one wing. This can cause problems with balance, resulting in injury when trying to fly or land.

For aesthetic reasons, some people leave the last one or two outside primaries and clip the ones closer to the body.

Experienced people have a good idea of how many feathers to remove. If in doubt, clip a few feathers. If your bird still retains too much flight capability, then clip a few more. Repeat this process until your bird can fly only a few feet.

Some species of birds require clipping of more feathers than others. In general the more aerodynamic the species, the more feathers need to be trimmed. Conures and macaws are very aerodynamic. Amazons and Greys are not as aerodynamic, so fewer feathers need to be clipped. Even within bird families, species requirements vary. We own both a green cheek and a dusky conure. We clip all ten primaries of our green cheek, while our dusky is fine with a clip of eight or nine primaries.

Be very careful when clipping, not to trim a blood feather, a feather that is still growing and receiving a blood supply from the body. You can recognize a blood feather by the blood in the shaft. If cut they will bleed and can become an emergency situation.

How to Clip

Your vet will clip your bird's wings. If you wish to learn how to do it yourself, then ask your vet or an experienced person to show you how.



Copyright © 1998 Carol Highfill
All rights reserved.

 

[Davesgirl93]

Funny discussion, I have a friend with a black capped conure and it seems no matter how many feathers get clipped he can still fly and get some height. They're afraid to cut more but the bird attacks some of the family members and bites them right on the neck or backside of the armpit! (its like he knows exactly where it hurts the most )

 

[LeslieA]

On ParrotForums, see this Link: Vets in your area !!!!!!!

Note: CAV's are common in 'major /larger' Cities. An Avian Vet, which is a member of AAV (Association of Avian Vets) is likely more common in your area. Call the Zoos and ask for recommendations. For years our only Avian Vet was also the Zoo Vet. It is likely you are in farm country and it is very possible that you have a Large Animal (Farm) Vet! This group of Vet's work with all the animals on a Farm and that includes the Birds. Yes, there are major differences between Birds and Parrots, but they at lease know not to cut all the Flight Feathers off both winds and certainly not a single Wing!

Ask lots of question as to their Anian knowledge.

I have spent the majority of my life in " the country." My certified avian vet is closer than my nearest zoo anyway.

Large Animal Vets know poultry birds which in many ways have very different requirements. I have 3 different vets:
1. Large Domestic Animal Veterinarian,
2. Small Animal/Exotic Veterinarian,
3. Certified Avian Veterinarian.

My farm animals are seen by #1, who generally travels/visits by truck and refuses to deal, including trim, with my pet parrots but will trim and is familiar with my chickens and ducks.

My dogs and cat are seen by the cheaper and "brick and mortar" stationary #2, who destroyed my Sunday's wings and nails but is good with the cat's nails.

My parrots are seen by my also stationary CAV, #3, who understands the needs of my parrots. He's further and too expensive for my dogs and cat.

I find that each is most familiar with the illnesses, treatments, etc. of each category. While my CAV is qualified to treat my dogs and cat, he's cost- prohibitive and further away. My CAV isn't qualified to examine my farm animals and my LDAV isn't qualified to examine my parrots.

Please do not expect a local Small Animal/ Exotic or Large Domestic Animal vet to treat or trim your parrots correctly and vice versa. Parrots are not domesticated animals.

 

[reeb]

Okay, just wanted to add my experiences. Berry came to me with terribly clipped wings. The breeder didn't even ASK MY PERMISSION to clip them, he just did it, and did a REALLY bad job. At least both her wings were clipped in the same way, thankfully. She was only left with two flight feathers on each side, and the rest clipped. She could barely fly. I felt so bad for her. However, I knew that her wings would grow back over time. So I just made sure that she could still access everything without her wings, on her playgym, in the room and in the cage of course.

Her first big molt brought in the innermost feathers, closest to her body. She could finally get lift (hallelujah) after about 3 months of being practically flightless. A few months later, the second big molt, the longer flight feathers at the tips of her wings. With these feathers restored she began to fly pretty well, and her whole personality lit up, it was incredible.

she has slowly lost and replaced the middle wing feathers over the past few months. I have had her just over a year now and she is still missing one middle feather on her right wing and two on her left wing. I am hoping that her next molt will completely restore her feathers.

So, yeah, I agree with everyone to trim the other wing to match the botched one. The feathers WILL come back, but it takes a long time. In my situation I thought "hey, it'll take like six months", but she is still missing the last three feathers a year in, so it is entirely dependent dependent on the bird, you know.

There are a lot of useless vets out there. I once had a vet tell me that, if I don't clip my budgie's wings, she will likely crash and damage her breast bone. I just cocked my head and was like "you know wings allow birds to fly, AND NOT CRASH, right?!" You better believe I never went back there!! At least your experience has taught you what to look for in a vet in the future!

Good luck with your baby. It WILL be okay!

 

[EllenD]

I know that a "show clip" is both wings, lol...You had mentioned doing a "show clip" and "clipping one wing" in the same sentence, and I misunderstood what you were trying to say, and I apologize for that...I don't think the two of us have any problem with agreeing that it is totally cruel and bad for the health of the bird to clip only one wing. That's all I was trying to say.

I have owned birds since I was 6 years old and grew up in a family of parrot-breeders, and started breeding when I was 16...No, I never spent any time at all in the "show world" except the occasional meeting with another breeder at a large show in Philly or New York, but that's it. Back in the day the bird shows were "cruel and unusual" themselves. I don't know if that's changed any or not, I certainly hope so...

Either way, I've been clipping my own bird's wings for decades, though my birds now are all flighted, I would clip the wings of any of the babies I bred upon the request of the new owners because I didn't want them taking their new baby bird to a Vet or a "groomer" and having what happened to the OP's bird happen to one of my babies. It happens all the time, we get posts on here all the time about breeders, Vets, pet shops, and groomers who either clip only one wing, or clip the wings down to nothing at all like this idiot did. That's the bottom-line to this post, the poor OP thought they were doing the right thing for their bird, they trusted a licensed Exotic's Vet to clip their bird's wings, and why wouldn't they, they are a licensed Veterinarian, and their bird's wings were butchered. We all should be able to agree upon that. So what matters here is that the OP has now been educated, they know what to ask for the next time they get their bird's wings clipped, they know how long it's going to take their bird's wings to grow back, and they know that their bird is going to drop like a stone to the ground now, because he already has, and that they have to be very careful about letting their bird climb up to high places and keeping his cage in a low place until enough feathers grow back that he is able to glide safely to the ground...And I'm terribly sorry that I misunderstood what you were trying to say, lol. Anyone who comes onto this forum and tries to tell people that it's "common" and "okay" to only clip one wing on their birds is going to be corrected by myself and many other members, and that's what I was trying to do...I misunderstood what you were trying to say, and I apologize. I know what a "show-clip" is, I simply thought that you didn't know what it meant, as I thought you were saying that a "show clip" is done on only one wing, or is sometimes done on only one wing...That's it...let's move on...