Wing B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-barbering????????????

[GaleriaGila]

I guess I'll open a new thread on the subject. The Rb has finally had a health problem identified. I am struggling to get on top of it. Thanks to those who replied in my original thread on the initial vet visit!

In a recent evaluation by a world-class avian DVM (Dr. Jamie Lindstrom, Northview Clinic in North Ridgeville, Ohio) something was discovered which no other vet has ever found, thanks to the exhaustive feather-by-feather physical exam, I bet. The Rb is guilty of (I learned a new term) BARBERING (meaning CHEWING) the first few flight feathers on both wings... down to the base. It's not readily visible; it's the first few primaries at the base, not the outer primaries. He still flies!!!!!!!!! You can't see the damage, but it's there!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dr. L. let me see and feel it. His best guess was a bit of arthritis in the mid-wing which Rb addressed by chewing. But he couldn't be sure, and advised that this will be an ongoing priority starting now. As he advised, I am watching closely, and attending to the usual stuff... lots of toys, lots of love, keeping an eye out for all stress/changes/etc. Dr. L. will see him next July (in six months), when Rb begins his yearly wing/tail moult.

Dr. Lindstrom actually saw the Rb about 15 years ago (when the Rb was about 15) when we first moved from New Mexico to Ohio, and there was no barbering at tht time. How I wish I had stayed with him, but the 2-hour drive dissuaded me. No more!

I've SEARCHED this site for relevant threads, which were helpful, but still...

Every time the Rb preens his wings, I watch and cringe.

Any thoughts, please, my friends?

 

[chris-md]

Aw shucks, I'm sorry Gail! I know how wrenching this can be.

Honestly, yours sounds like a mild case. It went unnoticed for lord knows how long. For all you know it's a one time thing!!

My advice would be don't lose sleep over it. It's a couple hidden feathers you didn't even know about. Monitor it, and if it doesn't get worse I'd say it's nothing to worry about, assuming there are no underlying health issues.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Thank you, Chris... 'wrenching' *IS* the word...

You just ramped my stress down a notch or two.

xoxoxoxo

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

Thanks in advance to all repliers. The Missus is worried. If choking the bird would help, the problem would be solved.
Kidding. Many thanks anyway to all.

 

[wrench13]

Hey hey now, lets not give 'wrench' a bad name ! How about heart rendering?

 

[EllenD]

Oh I'm sorry Gail, that would be stressful to watch. I've read a lot on barbering, but I've never had any personal experience with a bird that was doing it. It's my understanding that they do it for just the reason you stated, they have something physically causing discomfort in the area of the wings they are doing it to, so addressing the cause of the discomfort is the way to stop them from barbering.

I agree that it does sound like a minor case, and from everything I've ever read it's very common practice for birds as they get older. He's not plucking, and that's fantastic, so I'd just keep tabs on the progression of it. If he starts doing it more and more or to the point that it does become visible then don't be afraid to take him back before his July appointment to see if he might need to pain control.

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[Kentuckienne]

RB, stop it! But Gail, don't borrow trouble just yet...I know the fear, the same I have with Gus watching him pull and barber little feathers, that the next step is a naked parrot. I just hope that it doesn't get worse, for both our birds, that it's just a minor bad habit that doesn't snowball into a neurosis. RB doesn't seem the neurotic type. Maybe he would be satisfied with chewing on The Rival! Rival, you'd give up a couple of digits for the RB, right? At least you'll offer up one digit on each hand?

 

[SailBoat]

The 'Event' that launches the 'Need' to remove feathers, whether body, downy, or flight feathers when removed from a Parrot in its Natural World (the Wild) halts the activity. Its only captive Parrots that seemly continue this activity once the 'Need' has ended. At this point, it becomes a behavior (a neurosis). And the longer it continues the less likely of it halting.

Parrots Barber, Pluck and Mutilate. Some Parrots only Barber, others only Pluck. Those the Mutilate may also combine this with either Barbering, or more commonly Plucking. In rare cases, the Parrot will Pluck and Mutilate in one area and Barber in another.

The beginning, i.e. the 'Event' is commonly based around an injury, infestation, illness, a stressor, or etc, etc, etc... Since, the 'Event' in many cases is medical, seeing a Certified Avian Vet (CAV) as soon as noticed is highly advisable. In addition, even if the 'Event' is emotionally driven, in either case once it builds to become a behavior (a neurosis), the Parrot will need to be seem just as often by a CAV. This to support the infection(s) that commonly occur in and around the sites of Plucking and Mutilation.

Parrots that Barber may or may not transition into Plucking and than into Mutilation. In cases of injury, a reverse path is just as possible. All of which supports seeing an CAV, ASAP once noticed by the Owner.

There are several medications available with differing levels of success with different Parrots, which target specific causes. Point being, your CAV will likely provide /recommend several options based on what is believed to have first caused or now extending this behavior. It is important to be open to the suggestions of your CAV. As stated above what 'may' help differs between Parrots.

An early indicator of both Barbering and Plucking is over preening a specific area of the body or set of flight feathers. Investigation of those areas is always advisable as you may find the driver of this process. Correcting it early is very important.

My Parrot Is A Barberer! My Parrot Is A Plucker! My Parrot Is A Mutilator! Saying it loud and clearly is the first step in helping your Parrot. Accepting your Parrot as who they are helps take the emotional stress down several levels for both of you! Accepting you have a Special Needs Parrots allows you to be far more open to the Special Needs of your Parrot! They need your Love and Understanding! Get over the Worry, its a waste of your Time, Energy and only builds Stress when what is needed is Love and Understanding. Start by simply Accepting!!!

 

[GaleriaGila]

Heart-rendering it is, Mr. Wrench!

Ellen, thanks... I will be vigilant. After the wonderful experience I had, I won't hesitate a nano-second before going back to see Dr. Lindstrom. It may sound funny, but watching him handle and examine the Rb was like watching a world-class pianist in concert.

Ms. K., I agree! And I thought the Rival really loved me. *pout pout pout*

Mr. Boat, a very scholarly essay, as always, and thank you. I will definitely take your advice. Do my best to watch/intervene, and meanwhile, just love him. I realize suddenly and soberly that the Rb has made it pretty easy for me all this time. My first reaction to this developement was shame, and then panic. Thanks to everybody here, I'm getting it together, though, and putting Rb first. I knew I needed to post the situation and reach out, and I'm glad i did.

Dr. L. was pretty persuasive about the mid-wing pain/arthritis/trauma issue, given the systematic barbering (ugh, I said the word again) of the same hidden feathers on both sides. He specifically wanted to see the Rb during his next big moult (July-ish) to see what he can find.

Thanks, everybody.

 

[EllenD]

I have to totally agree with your new avian vet, if it's a bilateral barbering in one particular spot on both sides, then it's generally the bird trying to stop the pain or trying to get at the pain. Luckily RB is only doing it a bit, hopefully it won't progress, and if it does it should be pretty easily controlled once the source of his pain is identified.

It really is amazing to see the massive difference between a certified avian vet that has a lot of experience and really is a bird person, and a vet who "sees birds". It's like watching an artist at work. I clearly remember the feeling of relief and finally confidence that my baby was going to be OK the first time I took my Quaker to my current certified avian vet. I could immediately see the difference in him vs. the woman I took him to prior. Just the general exam was an entirely different experience. And when he told me he was going to take blood I felt my typical nervousness and thought "OK, here we go" as he was always so upset and stressed by this at the other vet. My new vet just had my Quaker step up, he spoke to him softly and scritched his head a bit, then just picked him up, laid him on his back in his left hand, picked up the swab with the other hand, swabbed his neck, picked up the syringe and put it right in his neck, drew the blood out, pulled the needle out, swabbed his neck again, and he just jumped right up and jumped onto the vet's shoulder! I'd never seen anything like it! He didn't make a single noise or move a muscle. No pain at all, wasn't at all scared, and loves him to death!

It's such a good feeling to know your baby's doctor knows what he's doing and can help them!

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[Taprock]

I'm sorry Mr. RB has started in on his feathers. Now to preface what I say - our Buzz had a wonderful home for 18 years, owner got sick, he got shuffled to non bird loving relative, and we ended up with him. His plucking started in a two month time and has continued with us. I'm guessing from my experience...
..like any good parront you may be watching him...like a hawk, hovering to see if he's grooming or something more. The one thing our vet told me that has stuck with me is to be sure while distracting him you don't end up rewarding or reinforcing the behavior because of your attention.

I hope you get to the bottom of why and if it's the arthritis to be able to help him. You are a GREAT parront and you just have one sneaky bird.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Ellen... YES! It really was a matter of watching a master craftsman at work. Oh, Rb screamed and flapped at first, but quickly found it futile and just caved. I do believe the mid-wing symmetry is persuasive. I had a funny reaction when we were getting ready to leave. I wanted to cry. Not because of the barbering (although that would sink in later)... just because I was so grateful and happy. I'm sorry I ever stopped seeing him.

Taprock... oh geeeeeeeeeeeeez, you're right. I've been springing into "action" every time I see him put beak to wings. Gah. Okay, I'm on it. Thanks for that, and for your kind words.

 

[Scott]

One of my Goffins barbers, mostly on his chest. Abby is the second of my 3 home-hatched Goffins and lives with a family of 5. He is totally healthy but has a very high-strung personality. The rest of his family members have impeccable feathering and they have the same diet and environment. His AV finds nothing abnormal, so I presume it is a facet of his personality.

I try to distract him when holding him or perching him on my shoulder, but there are times he just compulsively begins to overgroom. Do you notice any of these behaviors with RB?

 

[GaleriaGila]

Scott... to my KNOWLEDGE, he doesn't do it in my presence. Only a time or two over the years, I have found a chewed-looking flight feather, and given how reckless and active and generally high-strung he is, I didn't think much about it. Rarely, I observe a bent wing or tail feather, and I can't recall if that was around the time of the chewed ones. And of course I can't tell by looking, and the Rb does not like to have his wings spread. We keep coming back to that high-strung thing, huh?
Those 'toos make a powerful argument for personality...

 

[GaleriaGila]

I forgot to mention this topic as I was chatting in the Rb Scrapbook about his recent vet visit.
I undertook several measures to address this problem after it was identified six months ago (at Rb's age, he goes in twice a year).

So here's what I did... really, just all the standard-time-tested-always-good stuff... more toys, more food variety, more time out, more baths...
And one more unusual suggestion from the vet...
He was speculating about mid-wing arthritis and suggsted that when the Rb begs for a "lift" as opposed to just flying (this is more common over the last few years) that I give in to him, as he may be barbering out of pain when he flies a lot. So I did that.

He's in the middle of his big flight/tail feather moult, so the jury is still out, but it LOOKS as if he is growing in new mid-wing feathers.

So maybe the improvements helped, or maybe the lifts helped, or maybe there was an unknown stressor that came and went... or maybe he'll barber the feathers after they grow back in!!!!!!!!!!

But the vet gave me a few takeaways.
***It's good to be patient and watch sometimes, as opposed to jumping to pain relievers or other intrusive measures.
***Barbering/plucking can be stopped (sometimes, maybe).
***As your bird ages, it may need some extra breaks.

I would add...
***As always, see your Avian Vet regularly (twice a year for seniors, if you can manage it), and catch stuff early when possible.

So, we'll see!

 

[SailBoat]

Thanks for the update!

Really good point regarding providing transportation for older flighted Parrots when they ask for a ride! Your CAV speculating about mid-wing arthritis is well founded when combined with barbaring in that area.

We have long used it as one of the signs (asking for a ride) of one of our Amazons dealing with an illness. Even our oldest Amazons, once they regained their flight status would fly anywhere they wanted to go. That said, if they suddenly changed to asking for a ride. That became a signal that something was outside of normal.

Being proactive regarding the health of our feathered companions is far more important than far too many owners' place it. Seeing a CAV twice each year is an important and needed recommendation for senior Parrots and/or Parrots with known health issues.

Thank-you, for the information and recommendations! Well stated!

 

[texsize]

So sorry tohear abut your RB barbering problem.
I don't have anything to add. I hope and pray it stays uner control.
Wes

 

[GaleriaGila]

Thanks, Mr. Boat. Yeah, when the Rb calls me, I don't make him fly if he doesn't want to.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boiwpElRWmM"]rickeybirdproductions: "GAIL!" - YouTube[/ame]
Despite the hassle and expense, I love seeing Dr. Jaime and "Nurse" Connie (his main assistant) twice a year.

Wes... I SO hope it stays under control, but...
Even if it doesn't, I'm grateful to feel so supported by the vet and staff AND this community.
I love getting AND receiving that support. I'm doing my best, and hopefully helping others to do the same. :smile049:

These creatures are just so ALIEN! It's challenging to meet their needs, fer sure. :30:

 

[wrench13]

Gale, Salty was barbering too during his very first molt. If anyone can help the Rb its you!

 

[GaleriaGila]

Wow....................... Thanks, Mr. Wrench.

Sooooooooooo... when you catch a feather issue, WATCH/MONITOR/UPGRADE GENERAL CARE, and...

Maybe it goes away.

There's hope. And if it DOESN'T go away, there's ParrotCommunityLove.