Wild Greenwing at Rescue - clicker training?

[PCash]

Backstory - I've visited and volunteered at a local bird rescue just a few times in the last two weeks. I've been clicker training my two GCCs (and clicker trained a dog for two years), so I understand the underlying principles of clicker training and target training, etc..

Today at the bird rescue, I met Roger, a beautiful Greenwing macaw. He's interested when you come near the cage, but I asked the volunteer about him and she said "Oh, you don't want him. He's wild and bites." (I don't necessarily want him, but I guess she thought the questions were stemming from interest.) The story she gave me was that Roger and Misty (another macaw) were owned by a trucker who kept them in their cage all of the time. Misty found a home. No one has been able to handle him, though apparently he's come a long way since coming into the rescue.

I asked if they do any clicker training there and the lady said, "We don't have time or interest, but people keep telling us too."

He was fully flighted when he came into the rescue. I'm not sure if he's clipped now. I forgot to look. The female that was with him knew how to fly, so I'm hopeful that he does too. The volunteer said she thinks he might be ten.

Anyhoo, I think the rescue is open to allowing me to try clicker training with him. Is it worth a shot? Going into the rescue maybe twice a week and while I'm there cleaning cages and such, try maybe two or three mini sessions (two to five minutes spaced out over an hour to an hour and a half) with him?

Any guidance on what to work on first? I was thinking target training, after charging the clicker.

Is this a bad idea? I'm not planning on opening the cage door or attempting to get him out until I'm confident that we're ready, if ever, for that. I have a heart for the hopeless cases, or the tough ones, and I would love to get some experience working with macaws.

 

[chris-md]

Clicker training can be a wonderful beginning to retaming him. You’re right, targeting is a logical start.

 

[Scott]

Thanks for showing an interest and possibly "rescuing" this bird from a bleak existence. Greenwings are among the more mellow of macaws, and he may respond well to you. First, determine if he shows an interest, keeping in mind birds often "choose" their humans. If favorable engage for short periods of time and reward post-session.

While macaws have powerful and dynamic beaks, they are more likely to bluff than other parrots. That said, the potential for a serious bite is high! A thread worth reading: http://www.parrotforums.com/macaws/56384-big-beak-o-phobes-guide-understanding-macaw-beaks.html

Good luck to you both, let us know if you make progress!

 

[PCash]

Thanks for the thread link and encouragement. I've read through that thread before, but I think I'll go back and reread it.

I was thinking of taking a few different types of "special treats", but what should I take? Any known favorites for Macaws? Pine nuts? Almonds? For a macaw that's known to bite, should I get the whole almonds, or the littler pieces? Maybe I'll take some grapes too.

Thanks!

 

[Scott]

Macaws are capable of cracking macadamia nuts, so I'd get something that is beloved and challenging. Almonds and walnuts in the shell are favorites and readily available depending on your location. Grapes for sure, as long as have not been deluged with pesticides and are rinsed!

 

[PCash]

I was at the rescue this morning and spent a little time with Roger, the Greenwing. I offered him both walnut pieces and almond pieces. He seemed a little more interested in the almond pieces. It's almost funny how "laid back" the macaws are compared to my two conures. Of course my birds trust me and know me, but anyone pops their favorite treat out and they start going crazy. Roger and Sabrina (a blue and gold) were very slow and deliberate about coming to get the treat. Both birds were perfectly calm with taking the treats and didn't seem suspicious or hesitant or anything.

I only offered treats through the bars (no open doors yet) of the cage and tried to encourage them to come to get the treat, rather than offering it to them right where they were. Sabrina was fine and kept saying "cracker" when she finished her last piece and wanted another. She would move across the cage horizontally, but if I put the treat lower than her, she wouldn't get it, and when I moved my hand a little higher than her, she came over, shrieked and put her beak on my fingers. She didn't bite down hard, but I can't really remember if the cage bars were in the way or if she was being gentle. I only had the tips of my fingers holding the treat close enough for her to get anyway. In any case, she seems to have issues with hands above her head (and/or she got annoyed that she had to go to get the treat). When I go back, I might try to experiment standing farther back from the cage and putting my hand up and seeing what her reaction is to that.

Roger was perfectly calm until my son went on the one side of the cage (that was between him and another male greenwing). Then Roger started trying to scare off my son (fluffing, beak open and trying to reach him through the cage). The volunteer there this morning said he thinks maybe one of the other volunteers is going to take Roger. Since he was unsocialized with people for such a long time, I'm curious to see if he will be able to form a bond with a person or not.

Anyway, that's the update for today. I'm not sure if I will be able to go back tomorrow, but I want too. If you have any thoughts for this newbie to Macaws, send them my way!

 

[chris-md]

He absolutely can be 100% rehabbed to bond with people. Neglection over time doesn’t turn then feral pet se. Just means they LEARNED to not trust.

Learned behavior can be modified.

 

[PCash]

That's awesome to hear. I forgot to say that I learned today too that Roger was originally gotten with Misty (another greenwing) to be a breeding pair by the trucker. I don't know much more than that except human interaction was pretty much non-existent.

Roger did seem interested in the volunteer this morning, more-so than me.

 

[Scott]

Seems Roger is choosing "his" person. Hope it works out well, macaws are wonderful companions.

 

[PCash]

Well, I visited the rescue with my husband last night and while we were there I inquired about Roger (the Greenwing) again, asking if he was going to a home or not. The lady volunteer was very blunt and said again, "Oh, you don't want him. He's wild."

Again, I need to ask, am I completely crazy to try to work with Roger? The lady volunteer I spoke with is a macaw owner, is taking home the other greenwing soon and handles many other macaws at the rescue. But she doesn't know about or understand clicker training.

Roger took treats from my hand very gently through the cage bars. He has such an intelligent look on his face, and I really feel for him having lost his mate (adopted out a bit ago). To be honest, I feel like there might be a connection there. But he is a wild/never handled/breeder bird. (Wild as in not tame, not wild as in captured from the wild.)

Is this something only an experienced trainer should tackle, or should I try to talk to the rescue people again and ask them to let me work with Roger, first through the cage/targeting/etc. I don't know if my explaining what I want to do with him would help them understand or if they truly are against any "novice" working with him. I have watched part of Barbara Heidenrich's rescue bird movie and hope to finish the second half here this weekend.

I've been clicker training my two conures. My female was very hand-shy, but she's come along quite a ways and is gaining confidence. I can handle her and she just let me give her head scritches and even let me pick her up/hold her on her back to examine one of her feet. My male has learned how to wave hi and we're working on "eagles wings" in addition to step-up, targeting, etc. I've also clicker trained my dog to "service dog" level obedience and behaviors. I have experience clicker training, just not with a macaw. I'm usually very good with reading animal behavior (once I know what I'm looking for) and timing clicker and treats. I'm also kinda creative, so if something I'm doing isn't working, I come at it another way.

Do you know of any short video clips that show a transformation from a "wild" bird to a sweetheart using clicker training? Maybe I could show the people at the rescue something like that to show them what I'm hoping to do?

Or should this novice back away from this idea? Right now I don't have the space or set-up to bring Roger to my place just yet (and my husband's a bit leery of the big beaks so I need to make sure he's more comfortable around them before we bring a big mac into our home) and the rescue doesn't allow a bird to leave unless you can get them out of the cage by yourself, so I would be working with Roger once a week when I go to the rescue. More often when I could.

Advice?

 

[riddick07]

All rescue owners have their own personal quirks and policies. You can only push & make it clear you want the end goal to be adopting this guy after proving you can handle him. Honestly if it works in the end they should be throwing you a party for emptying an unadoptable macaw cage.

I’ve adopted a bird labeled unadoptable by a rescue. I had to push and make it clear I wanted to meet this bird no matter what they said. He was nicknamed vampire bird. I was told he neurotic and psychotic but fine they would bring him out. I still bled during visits but it was obvious that he was my bird. I haven’t been bitten since he came home but he IS psychotic & neurotic haha

I’ve worked with plenty of birds labeled unadoptable and labeled them that myself. But there is always someone that comes along that can make that bird work for them because for some odd reason the bird has decided that this random person is trustworthy. Sometimes it’s instant and sometime it takes work to earn the trust. If you keep coming back to this bird then you can only push to take him home & continue working with him in the rescue. Novice or experienced doesn’t necessarily matter if you are willing to learn and aren’t afraid of the beak.

She might understand and have heard of clicker training. She might not necessarily like the method though. A lot of people with a large load of rescues coming and going don’t have the time to do consistent clicker training with every single bird. Most of the time people pick a few semi problem children and work with them to try and quickly turn them around to get them out. Clicker training is effective but can just take awhile, so it isn’t always the most popular method with them. A lot of the time birds labeled unadoptable get pushed to the side to work with the quicker turn arounds too. Occasionally a volunteer will decide to take one on to train them but rescue is just time consuming honestly and there is a long list of birds waiting to come in. They really should be grateful you even want to try...

 

[Scott]

All rescue owners have their own personal quirks and policies. You can only push & make it clear you want the end goal to be adopting this guy after proving you can handle him. Honestly if it works in the end they should be throwing you a party for emptying an unadoptable macaw cage.

I’ve adopted a bird labeled unadoptable by a rescue. I had to push and make it clear I wanted to meet this bird no matter what they said. He was nicknamed vampire bird. I was told he neurotic and psychotic but fine they would bring him out. I still bled during visits but it was obvious that he was my bird. I haven’t been bitten since he came home but he IS psychotic & neurotic haha

I’ve worked with plenty of birds labeled unadoptable and labeled them that myself. But there is always someone that comes along that can make that bird work for them because for some odd reason the bird has decided that this random person is trustworthy. Sometimes it’s instant and sometime it takes work to earn the trust. If you keep coming back to this bird then you can only push to take him home & continue working with him in the rescue. Novice or experienced doesn’t necessarily matter if you are willing to learn and aren’t afraid of the beak.

She might understand and have heard of clicker training. She might not necessarily like the method though. A lot of people with a large load of rescues coming and going don’t have the time to do consistent clicker training with every single bird. Most of the time people pick a few semi problem children and work with them to try and quickly turn them around to get them out. Clicker training is effective but can just take awhile, so it isn’t always the most popular method with them. A lot of the time birds labeled unadoptable get pushed to the side to work with the quicker turn arounds too. Occasionally a volunteer will decide to take one on to train them but rescue is just time consuming honestly and there is a long list of birds waiting to come in. They really should be grateful you even want to try...

^^^^ This!! ^^^^

One never knows the deep connection an individual bird will make until attempted. Macaws are sufficiently intelligent to draw their own conclusions. The same courtesy ought be given to volunteers, as long as their procedures and contact is safe.

 

[EllenD]

I've been working at an Avian and Reptile Rescue for over 8 years now. I do mostly the medical/health/diet stuff, all of the intake exams, nutritional profiles and special dietary needs, etc. The other workers/volunteers who are the ones who clean out the cage, feed the birds, etc. are the ones who typically "work" with the birds, train the birds, tame the birds, etc., although I can certainly interact with any of them I want to, whenever I want to, and I do every time I'm there. It's very rare that a bird is actually labeled as being "unadoptable", and usually that is done by on a temporary-basis, as-in "They need training/taming before being adopted", or "They have health/medical issues that must be worked-out/resolved before they are adopted"...

That all being said, I've never seen the owner or the general manager, or for that matter any of the trainers EVER discourage another worker from working with any bird, certainly not if they are willing to take the initiative on their own, using their own time to work with a bird that is "wild", so to speak. If you came to me and asked me if it would be alright if you started trying Target-Training with one of the "unadoptable" birds, or one of the birds that has made no behavioral/taming progress at all, and you wanted to do it on your own time, I'd literally hug you, lol. It's funny how Rescues are so different from each other in the way they do things, but one of things that people are always saying when we have meetings to discuss the status of the birds/reptiles we have is "I think they have a very good chance of becoming tame/friendly IF we had enough time to work with them one-on-one every day". I mean that statement is made at every weekly meeting we have to discuss the status of each bird/reptile that we have. It's extremely rare that anyone says that a bird or reptile is "unadoptable", or "hopeless", or "will never be tame or be able to go home with someone". That is usually only said when there is a serious medical issue that has to be watched carefully every single day and will cost a fortune to treat, those are the ones that usually end-up going to sanctuaries. We've had some birds who have been there for years, only because they were not yet "ready" to be adopted; it's not EVER that they will never be able to go to a home, it's just that they're "not yet ready"...

So I can't imagine that whomever runs this rescue that you volunteer at would simply tell you to not even try Target-Training, or simply just "working" with any bird that they actually consider to be "wild" or "unadoptable"...I mean, what harm is there in someone willing to try to work with a bird that has already been labeled as a hopeless case? That doesn't even make any sense...

The only issue I can see you running into is what has already been mentioned by Scott, which is that every bird is going to choose their "person" or "people" on their own, and it's pretty much impossible to change their mind about who they choose. So if this Greenwing doesn't "choose" you, or frankly just doesn't like you for whatever reason (not your fault, there is no rhyme or reason to how they choose the people they bond with), then it may be very difficult or impossible to get him to participate...Although it already sounds like he's willing to work with you if he's taking treats from your hands through the cage bars. If there is another volunteer there that this Greenwing seems to be bonded with, and they are actually going to adopt him themselves, then you should probably speak to them directly and ask them what they think about you starting Target-Training with him, as if it's okay with them, then it should be perfectly fine with everyone else...And if that volunteer isn't going to adopt him, then I can't imagine why they wouldn't at least let you try...

Maybe you should approach this with them as it's on a "Trial-Basis", just to see how and if he responds to clicker/Target Training. Tell them you want to simply try to work with him as much as you can for a month, and at the end of the month you'll re-evaluate him and gauge his progress. It certainly cannot hurt to try, and there is certainly no reason for them to discourage you from at least trying...It's not like anyone else is trying to work with the bird, and as people that work at/run/own an Avian Rescue, they should be well-aware that there isn't any bird that cannot be rehabilitated, tamed, and socialized back into life with people. That's just BS if they are actually willing to simply write-off any bird as being "wild" and "unadoptable", especially if they've never once tried working with him! That's the lazy way out, and shame on them if that's how they "Rescue" birds in need...

 

[Jen5200]

I agree with all of the above! I have been a rescue volunteer for a couple of years, and have never been discouraged from interacting with a bird to socialize, interact, etc. The rescue that I volunteer at has mostly cockatoos, but there are a few macaws as well. I have smaller birds at home, and don’t have big beak experience at home - but I wouldn’t let that deter me either . I sincerely hope you are able to give it a try and it gets him a step closer to a new home!

 

[PCash]

Thanks for the encouragement and thoughts. I was confused by the one volunteer's response, so negative towards me, and Roger finding a home, but it seems like that's not particularly the whole story. I called the rescue this afternoon and talked to a friendly, helpful lady this time. I think I'm starting to realize that with volunteers, you might get a different story each time. I'm a young looking, small in stature woman, so its easy for people to underestimate me sometimes when they see me in person.

Anyway, this different lady was more than okay with me asking to work with Roger and told me that no one is interested in him. (So, the other volunteer saying before that someone was going to take him wasn't accurate.) He has no prospects as of right now.

She said that they let him out of the cage on the weekends. He climbs out himself on top of his cage and goes back in himself. No one picks him up.

She also said that Roger is really drawn to other greenwings there at the rescue. One of the times I visited, my son got between Roger's cage and Rusty's (another greenwing) cage, and Roger got really upset, fluffing big and trying to snap at my son through the cage bars. I doubt I'll ever be able to have more than one macaw (though who knows). I can see pros and cons to this. On the one hand, if I brought Roger home, he would have to form a relationship with our family since there wouldn't be another macaw for him to attach too. At the same time, I wonder if living in a one macaw household would be too stressful/lonely for a bird who has always been with other macaws (with his mate before and then with all the other birds at the rescue). Thoughts?

And as a sidenote, my husband was impressed with Roger even though he was intimidated by the big beak. My husband is not impressed easily, so this says something to me. Roger just has this look, deep and soulful and very intelligent. I dunno how to explain it. Perhaps I'm just wishing to see something and imagining it. We'll see. I'm looking forward to going back and hanging out with the big guy.

 

[riddick07]

Thanks for the encouragement and thoughts. I was confused by the one volunteer's response, so negative towards me, and Roger finding a home, but it seems like that's not particularly the whole story. I called the rescue this afternoon and talked to a friendly, helpful lady this time. I think I'm starting to realize that with volunteers, you might get a different story each time. I'm a young looking, small in stature woman, so its easy for people to underestimate me sometimes when they see me in person.

Anyway, this different lady was more than okay with me asking to work with Roger and told me that no one is interested in him. (So, the other volunteer saying before that someone was going to take him wasn't accurate.) He has no prospects as of right now.

She said that they let him out of the cage on the weekends. He climbs out himself on top of his cage and goes back in himself. No one picks him up.

She also said that Roger is really drawn to other greenwings there at the rescue. One of the times I visited, my son got between Roger's cage and Rusty's (another greenwing) cage, and Roger got really upset, fluffing big and trying to snap at my son through the cage bars. I doubt I'll ever be able to have more than one macaw (though who knows). I can see pros and cons to this. On the one hand, if I brought Roger home, he would have to form a relationship with our family since there wouldn't be another macaw for him to attach too. At the same time, I wonder if living in a one macaw household would be too stressful/lonely for a bird who has always been with other macaws (with his mate before and then with all the other birds at the rescue). Thoughts?

And as a sidenote, my husband was impressed with Roger even though he was intimidated by the big beak. My husband is not impressed easily, so this says something to me. Roger just has this look, deep and soulful and very intelligent. I dunno how to explain it. Perhaps I'm just wishing to see something and imagining it. We'll see. I'm looking forward to going back and hanging out with the big guy.

Volunteers don’t always get all the info or it’s old or they are remembering the birds wrong. As long as you are providing a lot of interaction he should be fine being without another macaw. Some birds do just love being in the shelter environment. It’s loud and crazy and they just seem to thrive on the energy but it doesn’t happen all that often and honestly tends to be cockatoos lol. He might need to stay with other birds to be happy but if his mate is gone & he hasn’t bonded yet with another you should be alright. You might never be able to have another macaw or maybe just another greenwing. Or he might be fine if he has had a few years to bond with family. Or he might be aggressive to another macaw edging in on his people at that point. You won’t know until you try really.

I looked at my cockatoo Folger for a year on Petfinder. My mother in the mean time bought a cockatoo at the petstore and I went overseas to study abroad. When I came back I kept looking at him on petfinder again and finally decided to contact the rescue. Told he was psychotic & neurotic but to come out and meet everyone. They literally introduced me to everyone but the bird I contacted them about until I finally asked to meet him like I wanted. Even the amazons which I was majorly intimated by back then since they just looked mean and ain’t no way Im owning one of those. (HA not even a year later and my mean green demon came home LOL) There was just something about the plucked mutilated little monster that clicked even on a picture. He always just looked so sad and depressed in that one picture on petfinder. Sometimes you just get a feeling that they are meant to come home with you maybe it’s the same for you!

 

[EllenD]

It's a sad situation, but isn't uncommon at all, where the "volunteers" and/or the workers/mangers/owners in animal/bird Rescues decide that they know best about the needs of the animals, and they think that they're doing the birds a favor by "protecting" them from being adopted by certain people...Also, there can be a jealousy factor, especially when it comes to a parrot that maybe one trainer/worker really falls in love with, but the bird doesn't choose them, but rather a different worker. And a lot of Rescue workers are women, and though I'm a woman and hate to admit this, the readings on the "caddyness meter", as well as the "gossip meter" tend to go through the rood when a large number of women are working together (this is why my mom, who was an elementary art teacher for 30 years, used to stay out of the teacher's lounge, lol)...Sad but true, especially since they aren't doing any favors for the birds by keeping people away from them and from helping them.

As far as you adopting Roger, the fact that he would be living in a home where he would not have any other Macaws or larger birds to bond with isn't a bad thing, nor a selfish thing, nor any situation where he's going to become "lonely" or sad, just as long as you and your family become his flock and are able to spend lots of time with him every day, and include him in your family activities, and just your lives in-general.

Many people mistakenly think that it's cruel to not have at least 2 parrots, because they'll become lonely, sad, depressed, etc. The fact of the matter is that birds bond just as closely with people as they do to other birds, and not only that, but there is absolutely no way to know whether or not your bird would even get along with any new bird you were to bring home, let along if they would bond with each other...Very often when people think that their bird is "lonely" and they make the very WRONG decision to bring home another bird for their current bird, they simply end-up with 2 birds that want nothing to do with each other, sometimes can't even be together in the same room with each other, and now they have to be the flock for 2 birds instead of one, which is very difficult when the 2 birds don't get along.

The bottom-line is that in most-all situations where someone has a bird that they think is "lonely", sad, depressed, etc., and where they think that they need a "birdy-friend", the fact of the matter is that that person simply isn't spending enough time with their bird, they aren't including their bird into their family and their family activities, and they simply don't have enough time (and sometimes the "want") to properly care for a parrot that has the intelligence of a 4 year-old child, and who needs hours of their time each and every day. And in these situations, the person shouldn't have a bird in the first place, and definitely should't go out and buy a second bird.

***So if you and the rest of your family/people who live in your household are certain that you can make the kind of daily commitment to Roger that he is going to need to be happy, healthy, stimulated, and feel loved, and you are certain that you can be not only Roger's family but also his "flock" from now-on, for the rest of your lives/his life, then by all means, I say adopt him, because these birds need experienced homes with loving families. Roger doesn't need specifically a "Macaw friend/family/flock", he simply needs a family and a flock, period.

 

[ChristaNL]

LOL, al true, unfortunately.
I am one of those people who decided a flock would be a great idea because I felt inadequate to meet all the parrots needs -- and though I wil still stay with my opinion that 'nothing can really replace parrot-parrot interaction' ... I will add: 'for real parrots'.

Unfortunately there are so many parrots around who haven't even seen another fellowbird in their life or only a very short period and have absolutely no idea *what* they are or are able te relate to other birds/ same-species members -> they just do not 'speak the language'.
(Yup, you guessed it: I have 3 of those - so it's not just 'learning tricks' it really is "learning about interacting with those aliens with wings" for all 3 of them as well! )

So learn about the bird you are getting:
Is it a bird raised as a bird of was it raised "human"?
Because if it is the latter -- getting it into a flock of non-humans will really be a steep learningcurve instead of a home-comming.
I am still figuring out if they can learn to be birds again or if they are really better off as a half-human-bird (and I am not alone in that, I think).


Be the best parront you can be- make each other happy.

 

[PCash]

Thanks guys! This is encouraging. We'll see if Roger will "choose me" if I start working with him or not. I know he's recognizing that I bring "good things" as I've given him treats the last few times I've been there. I'm hoping to build on this. Hopefully I can get a picture or some video the next time I go in to share with you all.

I noticed that at the tops of Roger's shoulders/wings he is missing a few feathers, as in I can see bare pink shoulders, but only about 1/2 inch or so. Would this only happen if he was picking at them? They said that he is really healthy/has a clean bill of health.

 

[PCash]

I went to the bird rescue today and got to hang out with Roger!

Here's a video I made of Roger at the rescue today. (Pardon the sob music and the dirty cage tray. I cleaned it as soon as I stopped filming. Shoulda done that first, but didn't think of it.)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBA9bBSt4Ew&feature=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBA9bBSt4Ew&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

He had just gotten his breakfast (mixed pellets/nuts/and seeds). But he was interested in my almond pieces and targeted well with my kebab stick. He did seem a bit distracted, as in he would take a few almonds and then go to the other side of the cage and look around or play. You can see that a little in the video. I had my five year old son film one of my later sessions with Roger while we were there. (Please forgive the shaky portion of the video.) I did several targeting sessions spaced fifteen/twenty minutes apart. I know that's not optimal, but I was trying to get several in while I was there, since I can only go about once a week. This week I was able to go today and hopefully tomorrow too. We'll see.

Roger responded fairly well in the cage, touching the target stick for an almond. He would get distracted and I would step back and then offer it to him in a different way and he'd engage for a few more times.

Another volunteer offered to let him out of the cage since she was confident she could get him back in. Apparently all you have to do is hold this broom handle up against the one end of the cage and he calmly climbs back in. I was excited for a chance to work with Roger without bars in the way, but as soon as he climbed out and up on top of his cage, he had no interest in me or any treats. We tried banana and animal crackers in addition to the almond pieces I brought. He took one almond piece and dropped it on the floor and did the same with the animal cracker. So anyway, I gave up trying to get his attention then and just sat back and watched him and talked to him.

I filmed some of it.

Then another volunteer came in, the lady who had told me that I didn't want Roger cause he was wild and bites. Things got noisier in at the rescue. It appears she's a big hit with the other macaws. Roger seemed interested in her too, appearing to call for her once and position himself on his cage so he was closest to her. I didn't see any fluffing or eye pinning or anything that would appear aggressive, so I think it was genuine interest in her. She's a louder/no-nonsense type of lady. I'm not loud, but can have plenty of "no-nonsense" when its warranted.

Anyway, that's the update I have for today. I've offered treats and talking to Roger maybe three or four times on different days. I assume it's too early for a guy like him to connect with me. I was wondering how long maybe I should give it before I determine that I'm not his type? I'm willing to go as long as it takes with Roger, but I have to show "a connection" in order to bring him home. Since he was showing clear interest for this other lady (who's frequently at the rescue, but just adopted a different greenwing there), I wondered if there was anything I could/should be doing to win Roger over. I know building trust and a relationship take time and I've got that. Just looking for any advice I can get.

I haven't seen any aggression with him the last several times I've been there. He takes treats very, very gently and seems calm and laid back (at least as far as I've seen).

There isn't a separate room for training at the rescue, so I'll just have to be patient with all of the distractions there. Any advice on how to find Roger's kryptonite? I mean, like his favorite treats/toys? He really wanted my kebab stick. Actually got ahold of it once and tried to pull it into the cage. Strong bird. lol. That made me start wondering if maybe he would be more responsive/interested in toys? But I'm not quite sure how to train with them. Any ideas? Or resources? I need something that will hold his interest once he's out of the cage. (Hmm, or I wonder if maybe I need to let him out and let him stretch his wings and chill for a bit before I start trying to work with him.)

Anyway, I feel myself falling for this bird and just want to give him every opportunity to fall for me. He could use a home and family.

Alright, that's quite enough for now.