Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

[ChristaNL]

for fun: Toxoplasma - the brain parasite that influences human culture - Not Exactly Rocket Science : Not Exactly Rocket Science

 

[LaManuka]

“Any cat owners in the audience? Your houses stink!!” (Excerpted from a British comedian whose name escapes me.....)

But seriously for purely selfish reasons you’d think cat lovers would be way more interested in keeping their felines indoors as those left to roam outside are far more likely to pick up a disease, get hit by a car, be attacked by a dog or another cat etc etc ad nauseum.... Don’t even get me started on how many native species of mammal, marsupial, bird, reptile that feral cats are responsible for killing in this country and many others, take some responsibility people!!

 

[noodles123]

When I was growing up (9 or so), a neighborhood cat was terrorizing all of the creatures within a 10 house radius (probably farther)..I remember sitting on my porch until 9:45 (past my bed time) to fight him off when he kept coming after 4 fledgling doves in a tree by our porch...I surrounded the base of the tree with branches from a thorny rose bush.. and for many weeks, I kept watch in the evenings after school--- One morning (when they were about to fly), I woke up for school and their bodies were all over our lawn- decapitated for sport--INCLUDING the mother bird! In one week, I counted 12 different animals---killed in our yard alone. He killed an adult robin right in front of me that same week, and some rabbits the next day.

I had had enough. My parents had called the owners (friends of theirs) and spoken with them about the problem, but nothing was done. After the dove incident, my 9-year old self picked the cat up (not a very nice cat either- it was not easy), carried him down the street to his owner and rang the doorbell. The owners (who knew me VERY well answered the door--their daughter was my age and went to all of my birthday parties) answered the door.

In tears, my best friend and I begged them to keep the cat inside and explained all of the recent incidents. Picture 2 sobbing children explaining what your cat had done...Even a sociopath might humor them and then let the cat out the back door right? NOW, imagine looking 2 crying little girls (friends of your child) dead in the eye, taking the cat from their arms, and saying "I'm sorry girls, that's just nature," and letting the cat go in front of them!!!!! That is exactly what happened. I should add, this cat did have litter-boxes in the house and often spent time inside as well.

We asked for them to get a break-away collar with a bell and that was also refused.

That cat lived for over 20 years (15 of which, he was a killing machine) and my parents never really looked at the owners the same way after this.

I was so mad--I felt like going and getting a bunch of poisonous snakes and setting them free in their yard so that I could explain the ways of nature LOL. Obviously I didn't- I'm not a monster...plus, that wouldn't have been fair to the snakes

To start with...there is nothing natural about a domesticated cat who is fed inside and runs around killing for sport all over town...I could go on all day...

Anyway, we called the city to find out if there was anything we could do and apparently there are leash laws for cats as well, but they are never enforced...It was quite literally ILLEGAL to let your cat hang out outside without a leash!!!! SO, why is it socially acceptable, and what is the point?

We never actually called animal control (because these people were family "friends"), but that same year, our dog was in the front yard with us (laying there doing nothing) and some jerk walking by made a bunch of threats about leash laws (not the same people...but it just goes to show what a stupid double-standard it is!!!)

If you are going to have a pet, you are responsible for its behavior and well-being. Feeding a cat and allowing it to run free is WORSE than me getting a dog, feeding it and allowing it to run free- dogs are WAY less capable of getting into things because they can't climb like a cat...at least you can (for the most part) keep dogs out of your yard with a fence! I know this is probably offensive to those people who own cats and allow them to run around like this, but if you wouldn't want strange dogs killing things in your yard and pooping in your sandbox and garden, then it shouldn't be okay for cats to do the same thing! If you live on a farm with a spayed/neutered barn cat (and no close neighbors), that is one thing, but many people who do this live in suburbia or even the city...So very frustrating...Then there is the disease issue...yet another rant-worthy point.

 

[Feathered14]

Everyone is going to hate me for saying this but I'm going to share my opinion.

I have a cat, have had one for most of my life. I never restrict a cat indoors if they are comfortable with going outside. My cat, who is neutered and microchipped, is free to go in and out of the house whenever he likes. We've spoken to the neighbours and they are fine with it. Sometimes their cats come in our yard as well. If anyone has a problem with him, they can contact the number on his collar.

In regards to catching wild birds, I don't think that is something easily preventable. While I discourage cats from doing it, it's completely natural and healthy for cats to hunt. It's not something I would keep a cat inside for. Besides, how are you supposed to keep windows and doors shut 24/7?

My cat spends about 50% of the day outside. I will usually see him on the roof laying in the sun, climbing up trees, sprinting down the garden or casually exploring. He is happy that way and wouldn't stand a day inside. We live in a busy area but he has never gone onto the road or gotten himself hurt.

For the people who are worried about cats harming their pets, I think that if you own vulnerable or prey animals, it's your responsibility to ensure that they are in an enclosure or are protected. Even if pets do not have access to them, they are always at risk of being attacked by a stray cat or other predators.

I'm not completely against keeping cats indoors but it depends on your environment and your cat. In some places, there are dangerous animals and some cats are at risk of getting stolen. (Even if this is the case, you should give your cat time outside supervised or on a leash.) But on my side, my cat is safe and comfortable. I'm not saying you should keep your cats outside, but don't force the 'indoors only' rule on everyone's cat.

 

[Feathered14]

I do agree that if your pet is harmful to others, it's best to confine them to your home. I have a watch dog who will probably break free if she is taken out of the yard. But she has a spacious garden to run and play.
But like dogs, cats also need their exercise. Ever noticed your cat sprinting down the passage at random hours? Those bursts of energy are likely because they're not getting enough activity. If you are keeping your cat indoors, you need to make sure they either have a play gym and/or spend a healthy amount of time outside.

 

[Betrisher]

I think there can be a happy medium. I have three cats, but not by choice: some people are born with cats, some people achieve cats and some have cats thrust upon them. The two family cats, Genevieve and Reginald do not hunt. I know this because they spend about 80% of their days indoors by choice. Also, I don't find partial animals in the yard, front or back. The other 20% of the day, they spend lying on their designated pedestals out on the deck in the sun.

The third cat, Trant, I inherited from an old friend. She told me that he did, indeed, hunt, however I haven't seen him do it yet and he's been with me for just on a year. He spends his days sitting in the window of hubby's shed (again, in the sun). His nights, he spends on top of the hot water service. He *looks* meaningfully at the native birds that come for food and water on the shed roof (level with the deck whereon the cats bask), but so far he's never gone for one.

Maybe it's because our cats live with birds that they don't hunt them? I don't know. In the old house, I'd find the occasional mouse cadaver, but those had usually been caught by the dog, not the cats.

If our cats hunted, I'd have to find a way to enclose them as I couldn't be responsible for the deaths of innocent native birds and reptiles. Feral cats are an *enormous* problem here in Australia and I've been directly involved in studying their effects on populations of native waders. Some of the cats we caught during our study were *huge* (ie. you wouldn't believe a domestic moggy could grow that big). I've seen feral cats stalking hares and small wallabies. That's not funny.

It's really not OK to just let a top predator have free rein on native wildlife. Owing to their part in the many extinctions of songbird species and small mammals, I expect that, eventually, it will be impossible to keep cats in Oz unless they're suitably enclosed. I think that's fair enough.

 

[SilleIN]

I live on a farm surrounded by woods. I have a lot of animals on the farm and I NEED a cat to help combat the rodent population migrating from the woods to the lure of food on my farm.

I am very particular and do not leave food available for rodents, but a horse dropping is a delicious meal for rats, so no matter how careful I am, they will always be attracted.

I do have the option of poison, but any poison I leave out is at the risk of unintended victims.

My cats over time have all been trained to only pursue rodents and leave birds (starts indoors with my parrots).

The cat can't do it's job if it can't reach it's prey.

As for the cats safety there are no larger roads nearby- however I do have feral foxes living in the woods. I therefore only have larger breeds of cats, so they are too big to be eaten by the foxes.

This may not be the "catpeople" you are talking about, but here they are a valuable part of the workings of the farm.

EllenD- I have tried to write to you- but your inbox is full. I would like to ask you some questions regarding rescue cockatoos

 

[Cardinal]

EllenD Thank you for bringing up this very important topic

An article from the latest issue of Current Conservation that may be of relevance to this topic . I strongly recommend reading the full article.

https://www.currentconservation.org/current-issue/

An Excerpt.

QUOTE""For over a century, naturalists have worried about the potential impacts of domestic cats on native wildlife, and their fears have only grown as improvements in technology have allowed researchers to paint an ever more detailed picture of house cat hunting behaviour. Despite the increasingly damning evidence that our feline friends are slaughtering an unsustainable number of native animals, pro-cat advocates have repeatedly lobbied against efforts designed to protect wildlife by minimizing the ability of house cats to interact with these animals—even where this mitigation involves relatively gentle measures such as mandatory pet registration and cat curfews. Conversations about potential management solutions have been strained, even violent; in at least one case, the discussion led to death threats against researchers who pointed out the harm that cats can do.
Cats, then, are seen by some not only as more important than wildlife, but even more important than humans. How did we get here—and where should we go next?" UNQUOTE
"

 

[Cardinal]

I live on a farm surrounded by woods. I have a lot of animals on the farm and I NEED a cat to help combat the rodent population migrating from the woods to the lure of food on my farm.

I am very particular and do not leave food available for rodents, but a horse dropping is a delicious meal for rats, so no matter how careful I am, they will always be attracted.

I do have the option of poison, but any poison I leave out is at the risk of unintended victims.

I do not know the specific nature of your farm but Possibly this could be a better alternative for you than having cats

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Pyu-Cj0gg&t=3s"]Ratting with terriers - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SilleIN]

I live on a farm surrounded by woods. I have a lot of animals on the farm and I NEED a cat to help combat the rodent population migrating from the woods to the lure of food on my farm.

I am very particular and do not leave food available for rodents, but a horse dropping is a delicious meal for rats, so no matter how careful I am, they will always be attracted.

I do have the option of poison, but any poison I leave out is at the risk of unintended victims.

I do not know the specific nature of your farm but Possibly this could be a better alternative for you than having cats

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Pyu-Cj0gg&t=3s"]Ratting with terriers - YouTube[/ame]

I have 2 ratters doing some of the job, but they NEVER take mice- only rats. They take the large ones the cat can't.

 

[LaManuka]

Oh I would LOVE a terrier, but first I’d need a fence around the house, and then I’d need to retire so I could be a bird/terrier mum full time ... mmmmmmm ... retirement

 

[Cardinal]

SilleIn

Are there any Dog breeds that are good at attacking Mice?

 

[noodles123]

Well, I mean, there are dogs that were bred to do just that (e.g., rat terrier).

 

[Betrisher]

Oh I would LOVE a terrier, but first I’d need a fence around the house, and then I’d need to retire so I could be a bird/terrier mum full time ... mmmmmmm ... retirement

Were you replying to me?

One thing they don't tell you about terriers (and by that, I mean 'terriers of any stripe') is that they dig. In the terra (earth). It can be somewhat disconcerting, depending on how and where they do it.

For example, our previous Bull Terrier (Miss Alice) was kind enough to exhume her good friend, Minerva, our sadly deceased cat, just to check that she was still there. She dug up all of my newly-planted capsicums and ate all the little fruits off them. We put in raised garden beds (and, by that I mean two-foot-six inches deep). Miss Alice went on a voyage of discovery and dug a hole big enough to disappear into. She came out black and very sneezy...

The pièce de résistance, though, was the time she chose to dig an occult hole under the clothesline during a period in which Old Dozo (my beloved husband) had neglected to mow the lawn for a few weeks. What had formerly been lawn had become undergrowth, thus concealing Miss Alice's ministrations. As mentioned above, she was capable of digging a pretty bloody big hole.

Picture it: my Hunn is puffing and blowing, straining to carry a small bar fridge down from the shed at the other end of the yard. He's stepping carefully because of the undergrowth. He approaches the clothesline and I call out 'Be careful! You don't want to catch your thongs in the grass and - '

He plummets.

'- fall over!'

Poor Hunn nearly dislocated his kneecap owing to the profound depth of Miss Alice's hole! What happened was that he trod his foot directly into it, stepping down abruptly by about eighteen inches. His weight and that of the fridge carried him forward so that he nearly bent his knee joint backward.

It was pretty unpleasant all round, really. I've *never* heard language like that come out of the mouth of my dear Hunn! I was thoroughly appalled!

Miss Alice continued to dig holes for all of her life, but that one under the clothesline beat all. Since her sad passing a few years ago, Miss Roxanne has come to grace our family. She was an abuse/neglect case (left locked in a flat after her family vacated and left her there). She came to us very slender indeed and very, very timid. The only thing she felt able to do without whining and crying was to dig holes.

How could we resist? Especially when faced with that particular bully grin? So Rox has dug manymanymany holes around the yard and my dear, long-suffering son goes around after her and fills them in with the second-best shovel.

Recently, Rox gave us a scare when her tunnel almost managed to connect with that of the rottweiler who lives over the back. Now, the rotty is a very nice dog indeed, but Rox is a Damaged Personality and has a dreadful habit of jumping with anxiety and slobbering over dogs she meets. This rotty would've made mincemeat of her (he has a pretty bad reputation for biting other animals).

So dear Hunn has situated a whole row of railway sleepers along the fence so that Miss Rox can no longer burrow toward her boyfriend. Instead, they call to one another through the fence. Loudly.

So, yeah. Just be aware of what 'terrier' means before you commit to one. :22_yikes:

Only kidding. Both Alice and Roxanne had/have the sweetest natures and are the perfect kind of dog for an older family. I would add that they're *extremely* tenacious and so I wouldn't recommend them to a family with young kids. A bite from a bully would easily break a small child's limb (and it wouldn't let go in a hurry).

 

[LaManuka]

Don’t encourage me Trish I think these people are trying to have a serious conversation and I will add nothing constructive I can assure you!

What they need for mice eradication is a tiger quoll. Ferocious little beggars but they’re so cute!

 

[Betrisher]

Oh I would LOVE a terrier, but first I’d need a fence around the house, and then I’d need to retire so I could be a bird/terrier mum full time ... mmmmmmm ... retirement

Were you replying to me?

One thing they don't tell you about terriers (and by that, I mean 'terriers of any stripe') is that they dig. In the terra (earth). It can be somewhat disconcerting, depending on how and where they do it.

For example, our previous Bull Terrier (Miss Alice) was kind enough to exhume her good friend, Minerva, our sadly deceased cat, just to check that she was still there. She dug up all of my newly-planted capsicums and ate all the little fruits off them. We put in raised garden beds (and, by that I mean two-foot-six inches deep). Miss Alice went on a voyage of discovery and dug a hole big enough to disappear into. She came out black and very sneezy...

The pièce de résistance, though, was the time she chose to dig an occult hole under the clothesline during a period in which Old Dozo (aka Dear Hunn, my beloved husband) had neglected to mow the lawn for a few weeks. What had formerly been lawn had become undergrowth, thus concealing Miss Alice's ministrations. As mentioned above, she was capable of digging a pretty bloody big hole.

Picture it: my Hunn is puffing and blowing, straining to carry a small bar fridge down from the shed at the other end of the yard. He's stepping carefully because of the undergrowth. He approaches the clothesline and I call out 'Be careful! You don't want to catch your thongs in the grass and - '

He plummets.

'- fall over!'

Poor Hunn nearly dislocated his kneecap owing to the profound depth of Miss Alice's hole! What happened was that he trod his foot directly into it, stepping down abruptly by about eighteen inches. His weight and that of the fridge carried him forward so that he nearly bent his knee joint backward.

It was pretty unpleasant all round, really. I've *never* heard language like that come out of the mouth of my dear Hunn! I was thoroughly appalled!

Miss Alice continued to dig holes for all of her life, but that one under the clothesline beat all. Since her sad passing a few years ago, Miss Roxanne has come to grace our family. She was an abuse/neglect case (left locked in a flat after her family vacated and left her there). She came to us very slender indeed and very, very timid. The only thing she felt able to do without whining and crying was to dig holes.

How could we resist? Especially when faced with that particular bully grin? So Rox has dug manymanymany holes around the yard and my dear, long-suffering son goes around after her and fills them in with the second-best shovel.

Recently, Rox gave us a scare when her tunnel almost managed to connect under the fence with that of the rottweiler who lives over the back. Now, the rotty is a very beautiful-looking dog, albeit a bit barky, but poor Rox is a Damaged Personality and has a dreadful habit of jumping with anxiety and slobbering over dogs she meets. This rotty would've made mincemeat of her (he has a pretty bad reputation for biting other animals).

So dear Hunn has situated a whole row of railway sleepers along the fence so that Miss Rox can no longer burrow toward her boyfriend. Instead, they call to one another through the fence. Loudly.

So, yeah. Just be aware of what 'terrier' means before you commit to one. :22_yikes:

Only kidding. Both Alice and Roxanne had/have the sweetest natures and are the perfect kind of dog for an older family. I would add that they're *extremely* tenacious and so I wouldn't recommend them to a family with young kids. A bite from a bully would easily break a small child's limb (and it wouldn't let go in a hurry).

 

[SilleIN]

SilleIn

Are there any Dog breeds that are good at attacking Mice?

Not to my knowledge- if I knew, I would have one.

My dogs are 2 mix-breeds- one chihuahua/Czech rat terrier mix and one chihuahua/Danish-Swedish Farmdog mix- both bred for the small size mixed with the rat killing instinct. They both go gaga when they get the scent of a rat, but if I hold a mouse or baby rabbit and they just look at me funny. I think something in their genes tells them when it's a rat and when it's not.

 

[bill_e]

My rat terrier mix will hunt rodents and he's most successful with chipmunks. I brought him to a pig roast at my daughters a few years ago and he piled 4 chipmunks at my feet in like an hour....then they started carving the pig and his attention went elsewhere He tends to leave the mice to the cats

 

[SilleIN]

My rat terrier mix will hunt rodents and he's most successful with chipmunks. I brought him to a pig roast at my daughters a few years ago and he piled 4 chipmunks at my feet in like an hour....then they started carving the pig and his attention went elsewhere He tends to leave the mice to the cats

We don't really have chipmunks here. They usually live in residential areas in Denmark, not the woods for some reason?

And we don't have any large reptiles in Denmark at all, so cats and dogs only really get to catch mice, moles, voles and rats. I think the moles and voles are cute, but my neighbour is really happy my cat takes his (the furthest he goes), as he used to have a mole/vole heaven, now he has a flat green lawn.

 

[bill_e]

My rat terrier mix will hunt rodents and he's most successful with chipmunks. I brought him to a pig roast at my daughters a few years ago and he piled 4 chipmunks at my feet in like an hour....then they started carving the pig and his attention went elsewhere He tends to leave the mice to the cats

We don't really have chipmunks here. They usually live in residential areas in Denmark, not the woods for some reason?

And we don't have any large reptiles in Denmark at all, so cats and dogs only really get to catch mice, moles, voles and rats. I think the moles and voles are cute, but my neighbour is really happy my cat takes his (the furthest he goes), as he used to have a mole/vole heaven, now he has a flat green lawn.

I have a big problem with moles but since I keep the cats inside they are of no help. I live in the woods but have plenty of chipmunks...I could send you some if you like

Today I was down in my shop and needed some sandpaper which I have dozens of boxes of in my cabinet. I opened the drawer only to find that the friggin mice had been nesting there and had consumed 4 of the boxes to make a nest...luckily the sandpaper was unharmed....b@$#@$&#!