Why are pellets supposed to be so awesome?

[Kiwibird]

I bet you didn't realize just how big of a "can of worms" you opened when you asked this question :09: The great seed/pellet debate has been raging on for years, and just about everyone is strongly opinionated one way or the other. Its like asking everyone how they feel their kids should be raised! At least you have the opportunity to read lots of information and opinions so you can decide what's best for your bird.

I just wish more people knew about the relatively unheard of "3rd option" of cooked/sprouted grains. I never had until our vet brought it up as we struggled to get Kiwi to try any kinds of new foods. When we adopted Kiwi, he had never eaten anything BUT pellets, wasn't in great health, and I immediately wanted to get him off them and onto seed and produce (same diet my parents older, and still very healthy birds have always been on). Once the vet suggested looking into the cooked mixes, I tried him with it, and he gobbled it up! With a single bird, sprouting wastes a lot of food, so I cook it since it can then be frozen. Sprouting would be a great alternative for larger flocks though! It's really not THAT much extra effort, and I have to agree with my vet that it surpasses pellets and seed as a dietary staple.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I wish I could use all fresh foods but my amazon is so picky and I don't think I could get the right balance of what he needs into him.He only likes certain veggies and seems to have no use for fruit. I only use about 50% pellets(vet recommendation)and even that's been a struggle until I recently found one he will eat.

That's why I make a chop mix for Rosie, I use a food processor for much of the veggies, this way they are so small she can't help but eat it when she picks out her favorite parts. It took a while, but now she loves her chop mixes

 

[khaiqha]

... And while the most of the produce available in stores isn't native to the jungle, it's still much much closer to a natural diet than pellets will ever be. Even seeds are far more natural (I would assume they find and eat some kinds of seeds in nature) than pellets. I mean, how would you like to eat nothing but bland, dry, vitamin fortified bread with a piece of fruit thrown in here and there? That's basically what the "suggested" pellet diet is. And even if they have weaker taste buds, they still have some ability to taste. Imagine eating something that tastes gross, or at least very very bland, day in and day out with absolutely no choice in the matter. That would suck. It is quite a bit of extra effort and cost to feed them a balanced whole foods diet, but IMO, pets aren't about your convenience when you have the choice NOT to own one and have to go to all the trouble. Plus, pellets are still relatively new, and no one really knows just how much they may contribute to health issues or reduced lifespans in animals that live 60+ years yet. Just look at what we're just finding out about the "food" that is GMO, antibiotic/hormone laced, and is processed to the point it no longer resembles something natural in human populations. Why would I risk my birds health to feed him similar substances, and at 80% of his diet none the less?

I still don't buy the taste argument. Just because it tastes bad to us, does not mean it tastes bad to birds. For starters, I'd be willing to bet that birds have individual preferences just like we do. Ask a bunch of people if they like cilantro and you're going to get a wide range of preferences and dislikes.

Secondly, even if a bird likes something, that doesn't make it good for the bird. They're attracted to salt, sugar, and fat just like we are.

As for GMOs and what not, I'm fine with eating them, but I have a feeling talking about that will just hijack the thread.

 

[Kiwibird]

I agree with staying off the subject of GMO's, as i am passionately against them and could debate to till the cows come home on the matter. As for the taste argument, Kiwi only ate pellets the first 10 years of his life (the cardboard colored kind). After getting over the hurdle of getting him to actually try new foods, he will no longer eat them, period. There always seems to be a few mixed in with his seed mix and he flings them. His choice, not mine and I imagine if he actually liked the way they tasted, he would eat them. He does have other foods he simply doesn't like too (peanuts, carrots and peas being the main offenders). I also notice he has a particular fondness for squash, brocolii, pineapple and bananas. I challenge you to explain what about him chowing down on the fresh produce is unhealthy? To me, this obviously indicates he does taste, and like a good amount of birds, does not choose to eat pellets voluntarily (probably because they taste bad to most birds). As a responsible pet owner, I obviously don't give him foods with added salt, sugar or that are especially high in fat, though I'm sure he would love junk food. That said, if 80% of what the bird has to eat are pellets, does it really have a choice at that point to eat them or not simply based on flavor? Also, cilantro is also an unfair comparison IMO, since it does have a strong flavor. How about asking the general consenus of plain white bread with nothing on it 3 meals a day?

 

[haleybird]

I'm interested to read more about cooked sprouts/grains...that actually sounds delicious for people too! (I'm one for eating sunflower sprouts as a snack though )

I was actually thinking about this the other day after reading the ingredients of pellets...how can corn, wheat and soy products compacted into a cardboard colored pellet be healthy again?? Lol. GMO issues aside (I eat and feed all my creatures organic whenever possible), those ingred's have been proven in dogs (and some people too!) to cause allergy and other negative reaction. One of my dogs had chronic ear infections to the point of needing surgery and going deaf in his other ear...switched up the diet to a grain free, pretty much organic alternative and his hearing, within a few weeks, seemed normal. I think its related completely to diet.

I wonder if it would be possible to create your own organic pellets, combining things your parrot loves (pureed spinach, papaya, nuts, beans/rice/quinoa, flaxseed, spiruolina, probiotics as a start) making little cookie/pellet shapes and dehydrating them? Technically this process keeps the ingredients "raw" and unprocessed, while creating a longer shelf life. Has anyone ever thought of doing this, or if it would even work?

With a balance of fresh veggies and fruits of course...this could be one of those things you could put in the food bowl in their cage to ensure that if they're hungry, they have something to munch on.

 

[khaiqha]

My birds love pellets, and I struggle to get them to eat veggies prepared in a ton of ways. Comparing pellets to bread as opposed to cilantro is still viewing taste from a human standpoint. Snakes like live rodents, polar bears like the taste of blubber, and my Alexandrine will lick his own dried up poop if I let him. Not saying birds can't taste, but that we can't look at their sense of taste from a human viewpoint.

I think I would be more open to grain/veg diets if I saw them listed nutritionally as opposed to ingredient based. How much potassium is in the diet? How much complete proteins? If my bird hates this one ingredient, is it going to deprive it of an essential nutrient if it doesn't eat it? I feel like just feeding a bird "healthy" food doesn't gurantee anything.

Ideally I would like to see diets specified to specific species as opposed to all parrots. Alexandrines are known to actively hunt bugs in the wild, so many owners feed them extra protein. How much extra is needed? Is it even needed, or do wild alexes eat insects only during breeding much like toucans eat other baby birds during their breeding? There are just so many questions. It would be nice if there was a database from breeders on diet/environments that their birds were raised in compared to lifespan. Of course, individual genetics play a large role as well, as there's always that person that eats unhealthily, smokes, and drinks and lives to be a 100+.

 

[HalfInsane]

I'll be honest, I don't have a specific ratio in which I feed Pixel certain foods. I don't think pellets are the be all and end all, and really... They're like vitamin infused bread. Typically I offer Pixel veggies, beans, whole grain rice/pasta/bread, fruit and all that good stuff in the morning for the first half of the day when she eats more (and I'm fortunate she's a little pig and will eat ANYTHING and is not one to leave a certain food because its not her 'favourite') and pellets in the evening. I'll also add seed to the pellets every three(ish) days, because while I recognize they're high fat, you need some fat in your diet!

Moreover, 'parrot food' is not like 'dog food', dogs are all the same species and therefore have the same nutritional requirements. Parrots are all different species... And not even from the same continent!! Is it fair to assume the African species have the same nutritional requirements as New World parrots? I personally don't think so, but I also don't know what the difference would be, and in general, these two groups are fed very similarly. And maybe they should be, and maybe they shouldn't... I personally don't know.

I know how I feed Pixel isn't perfect, but no matter how much I read... There's no agreement on what is! Of course I'm always open to suggestions, because I can't claim to be an expert and there's no exact science on feeding birds... But wouldn't it be nice if there was? Okay. Rant done.

 

[Kiwibird]

Half insane brings up a very good point about new world and old world parrots having different dietary needs. I actually did some research into what Kiwi (amazons) would eat in nature, and as I always thought, amazons are opportunistic omnivores. They eat fruits, seeds, nuts, bugs and even occasionally scavenge off dead things. Their diet and nutritional intakes varies widely throughout the year as their food sources change. As in, they may get more of a certain nutrient during, say, the rainy season, while getting almost none of it during the dry season (I actually never thought about this before). It makes me very seriously question if it's even good for them to get a steady stream of every nutrient year round since they evolved to have peaks and lulls in individual nutrients being in their diet (perhaps old world parrots natural environments are different though). That makes me even more confident the varience Kiwi gets is indeed good for him. Especially since we try to only eat in season produce, it may unintentionally be even better for him to be cycling through different kinds of fruits and veggies (with different nutritional contents) throuout the year. What really blew me away though was learning more about the "Manu clay" macaw and amazon owners are encouraged to give their birds blocks of. I always believed it's primary function was essentially a natural birdie multivitamin and grit source. Apparently, during the dry season when food is scarce, they eat toxic seeds, and the Manu counters the seeds effect! I won't be feeding Kiwi any toxic seeds, but it am very surprised to learn that's the primary reason they eat the clay in nature! You learn something new everyday I guess...

 

[henpecked]

I use pellets. Maybe 60% of their diet. The best part about pellets is the control you have over a "balanced " diet. They get the vitamins,minerals ,etc that's hard to control with fresh. It's so easy to miss something intheir diet. Pellets help you to cover all the bases. With the zons controlling their fat intake is tough ,pellets help there too. I spend ( my wife mostly) hours a day fixing fresh foods for our flock, But the pellets are a large part of their diet. Yes i think by zons are healthier and will live longer with the help of a pelleted diet. If seeds are important to you ,look into sprouting them.

 

[sodakat]

Chops took the places of "mashes" I think. There are lots of good chop and mash "recipes" on various web sites. Some are not appropriate for my species (Eclectus) because they contain enriched pasta, but for the most part they would work for any species, within reason.

I sprout lentils, garbanzo beans, mung beans, quinoa and buckwheat. All except buckwheat must be soaked about 12 hours before sprouting. Buckwheat only needs to soak 15 minutes.

With small pulses and grains as well as seeds, once they have soaked, they are ready to eat, even before the "tails" appear.

If you haven't tried it, check out Phoenix Foraging Rolls' "unpellet". This is an outstanding product that makes a nice dry food to leave in the cage all day. UnPellet Mix

 

[Abigal7]

I think we can all at least agree a bird should not eat nothing but pellets. It would be as bad as having a bird on a all seed diet. Clover will eat a little bit of scabbled egg, or a little bit of fully cooked skinless chicken. This morning she at pretty much all of her cooked rice meal. She loves fruit and we are working on expanding the veggies. She will eat carrots and brocoli. I also think the species of parrots should be considered too. When I was a child the mentality was the diet for birds should be seeds. While budgie and cockatiels need variety they do eat alot of seeds and grains (and that is fine). My budgie lived his lifespan and so did my cockatiel but my green cheek conure was still young when it died (I was in college at the time) and I do think a all seed diet did play some part in his early death.

 

[MonicaMc]

In regards to the grains, nuts and seeds in pellets, and how it's been proven that these foods are not healthy for dogs... well, that's true. Dogs should eat a meat based diet, not a grain one... because out in the wild, wolves eat a lot of meat!

But parrots aren't dogs. Most parrots don't eat meat. They are designed to eat seeds and fruits! Parrots can process seeds, grains and nuts a lot better than we can! But that's not to say that they can't form some type of allergy against some sort of item within their diet. (i.e. corn, nuts, grapes, etc)


Seeds vs pellets? Well, when comparing them for the average medium to large parrot (that doesn't eat a nectar based diet or have a longer digestive tract), pellets are definitely healthier! Why? Because pellets have more nutrition in them than seeds do, and seeds can never be a "complete diet". That's what pellets were designed to be. When pellets were introduced into the parrot world, we saw a lot less birds with health problems related to a seed only diet - i.e. malnutrition, obesity, liver failure, illnesses related to a poor diet (i.e. vitamin A deficient diet may lead to respiratory infections), etc.

In regards to seeds vs pellets in small species? Seeds are better. That's not to say that pellets are bad, but that small species can't handle eating pellets like the larger species can. We see more kidney problems in these birds... but...... a diet of both kind of helps to "even" things out.


When we introduce fresh/cooked foods into the equation, well, it's hard to say. Just because you provide fresh/cooked foods doesn't mean that your bird will eat them. Just because you provide them doesn't mean that you are providing the *right* quantities to fulfill the entire dietary requirements... When people think of fresh foods, they often think of fruits and vegetables. They often forget that grains and legumes and sprouted seeds are also important in this fresh food diet. Where else are they supposed to get the protein?

Lets be honest, "live" food (i.e. fresh food) is better than "dead" food (i.e. anything processed or cooked), however, not everyone is capable of providing the correct fresh food diet. That's where pellets come into play.


For those of you interested in looking into a fresh food based diet, these links may be of interest to you.

For A Naturally Healthy Pet with Alicia McWatters, PhD, CNC


Mikes Manna Mash used to be a huge thing. It has over 30 ingredients in it! (I don't agree with all, but it's pretty big! there's full, half and quarter recipes)
mikes_manna_mash : Mike's Manna Mash

There's another one that was designed by Shauna Roberts.
FeedingFeathers : Feeding Feathers
http://www.avianmedicalcenter.net/Portals/0/Mash Recipe by Shauna Roberts.pdf


Enjoy!

 

[Sasha2]

I think I get it now.
The sun conure I just got is an awful eater.He wants only sunflower seeds,peanuts and corn.He will eat an occasional colored pellet out of the food mix he came with.He does like fresh fruit so thats a plus.
So I have to go buy some Zupreem fruity colored pellets now.Its what our Greenie ate at first too.But she is on the natural pellets now.

If he ate pellets at least he would get some decent vitamins out of his food.
Pellets are better then Seed...Fresh is better then Pellets. Set out all three and its a winner.

 

[haleybird]

Monicamc, those articles are really awesome! I'm printing them out to add to my binder. I want to buy that book too! Looks like an amazing resource.

Of course adding fresh mac/palm nuts to the hyacinth diet is essential too...but I've been looking for that kind of basic recipe information for a bit now.

 

[henpecked]

Palm Nuts ??? i have palm nuts.

http://www.parrotforums.com/recipes/29436-fresh-palm-nuts.html

 

[haleybird]

I've got a fairly decent selection of palms here too, but I'm looking to buy some of the Attalea species...they're mostly in Florida though....thats one of the Brazilian palm groups that Hyacinths eat in their native habitat. And very hard to find in CA!