when will Martini stop being so *darn* nippy??

[crimson]

god love Martini, there are some great things about her....but honestly I wish she would stop being so bloody nippy!

she is just about 4 months old now, and if this doesn't stop I'm going to really hate to see her 2 months from now, never mind when she's in the terrible two stage

It's not just with me, it's everybody.
is this just a stage or testing us?....if you remember the very first time I met Martini, she beaked my pretty good, then again....and it hadn't even been 2 minutes at the guys house.

I'm wondering if this is a engrained habit with her. It's every time she is with us.

when I get her out of the cage, she no longer steps up, she just flies off

when I tell her to step up, she immediately beaks my finger, and squeezes pretty hard too.....and this is constant, not just sometimes. I take my time with her, I don't rush, but she sees my darn finger like "oh there it is, now I can bite it"...uggg.

ok, I get that she doesn't want to be scritched,sometimes, and she's letting me know 'hey, not now'....but it's almost like she is looking for something to beak, she's not biting, just squeezing her beak on my finger, and she's not picky which finger it is either

I read that if a Senegal doesn't like something, they will squeeze your finger(we haven't got to the biting stage yet-- thank goodness)

how am I suppose to interpret this? :54:

now I have been training her with treats, step-up, step-down, and that is working very well, but if I don't have a treat with me, she goes right back to the beaking again.

I don't want to use a perch, I feel that would be taking a step backwards.

any advice would be much appreciated!!!

 

[getwozzy]

I can't speak for sennies, but Chili was majorly beaky during the first couple months- she still is beaky, but she understands now.

What I do when chili beaks my fingers is if she's doing it on a joint I'll close up my finger so it kinda catches her beak -this stops some of the squeeze from her and prevents her actually from biting harder. Or I'll try to remove her beak with fingers from my other hand and push her beak away. I always tell her "no biting" in a stern voice (and she gives me a look lol)

I hope that made sense? I'm sure I could get it on video lol

A lot of it is Martini probably doesn't quite know what bite pressure is acceptable and also still exploring a lot of things with that baby beak

 

[RavensGryf]

Wow Beth, I feel for you. I'm sorry Martini is so nippy. and so young too! It's like she's telling you I don't want to be bothered now, but all the time? My Pionus Raven is pretty crotchety. It just might be a matter of individual personality too with Martini, since you see a big difference with her and Safari. Just like Raven, his natural personality is SO much different and not as nice as the Bronze Wing I had before him.

As for my Poi, Robin didn't get "nippy" as a youngster, but he got pit bull "bitey" when he was maybe 7-8? (I know, late bloomer) and up until his mid teens, he was serious like he intended to remove a finger when his hormones would hit hard :11: Knock on wood, but since he is 19 now, he is finally not bad, and this past Poi hormone season (winter) he was pretty tolerable.

How about always having a small foot toy with you when you go to handle Martini? That way she can bite the toy not you. If Martini has a positively enforcing "reason" to want to step up (like so you can take her to her favorite place and get a favorite treat) does she still bite? Hang in there Beth

 

[crimson]

I agree Shirre, I understand she is young and learning.

I just had a 'AHA' moment....

Due to her being hand fed and pulled from the nesting box at a crucial time when she would learn this from her parents.... she has no idea...does that make sense??
Even her breeder never corrected her when she beaked him either, he thought it was funny!

So what works with a Senegal, a firm NO? a gentle shake of the beak? putting her back on top of a cage? constant training with treats?

Julie- I thought the very same thing....she is doing this at such a young age.
I guess she really doesn't know right from wrong.
I'll try that idea about the foot toy, it will sure save my fingers, and hopefully it will help.

Dave went to her tonight(she adores Dave) and she did it with him too, exactly the same.

 

[getwozzy]

Makes complete sense to me! I would just be consistent with whatever method you choose- whichever one works best for her...but it may take a while for her to "get it", but just keep at it!

I would just grab the sides of her beak with the tips of your index and thumb and push her beak away -firmly but gently.

I think having something as a distraction like a foot toy is a great idea!

These days when chili is beaky it's because she's hungry, tired, scared, or bored lol but she hardly does it just to do it because she knows we don't like it.

 

[crimson]

well, now that I understand (I think I do) where Martini is coming from, I can be more patient, rather than frustrated.

thank you to both of you (shirre & julie) Now I have a positive outlook and a plan on how to stop this, or at the very least minimize it.

 

[Heidielise]

I do the same thing as Getwozzy with my little conure. Holding her beak & pushing it away works much of the time. Also, if she nips me unexpectantly, I blow into her face, firmly say, "No!" & put her down on the floor. As a lot of experienced parrotpeople have
noted, birds don't like to be on the floor-- they feel vulnerable. I put her down & walk away. She usually acts very contrite, very quickly. When I pick her up after a short time, she is all sweetness & light.

 

[crimson]

thank you Heidielise, that is great advice.
It seems that birds don't care much for their beak being held then being pushed away, so I will definitely try that tomorrow.
I also love the floor idea, I'll use that as a back up plan

 

[getwozzy]

Depends on the species though- my galah *LOVES* to be on the floor, so the floor method doesn't do anything for her lol

Another way is sometimes I have to move my hand to slightly throw her off balance- which stops the biting. Like a bird/hand earthquake thing lol

 

[crimson]

good point.... Neither Safari or Martini spend(spent) much time on the floor--they prefer it higher up.

I had Martini on my hand today, and she was beaking my thumb, so I dropped my arm a little bit to knock her off balance.....all she did was fly off...I felt like she didn't get the message. I use to do that with Safari and it worked really well.

 

[strudel]

My galah doesn't mind being on the floor, she'd be quite happy to wander about wrecking all of my stuff. She also doesn't mind having her beak held, she goes all smoochy, and seems to like it.

Hopefully, you'll have better luck with Martini.

 

[RavensGryf]

Also I was told many years ago, when your bird is on your hand not to shake your hands to unbalance the bird has this will cause trust issues between your hand and the bird. This person told me the idea is to make your hands a safe and trusted place for your birds and if you shake your hand to unbalance the bird then the bird will come to see your hand as unsafe and will learn to distrust your hands. if your bird views your hand has unsafe and distrusts your hand it will more likely fly away or bite the hand.

There seems to be controversy over this. IMHO, it depends. The "earthquake" method is an "older" method, and probably not something advocated by modern behaviorists, but I can tell you from my personal experience, that in a bird who already has trust in you, and is bonded to you, it's not going to make a difference in level of trust. I'm not saying that it's either "good" or "bad" to do, or appropriate for every single bird out there... I'm simply saying that when I've used it with my certain birds before, nothing detrimental ever came from it.

 

[crimson]

I can see both points.
I think Delfin was trying to drive the point home since I've already got a beaky baby on my hands, the last thing I want to encourage is mistrust as well.

I honestly think it depends on the bird and how they take and receive our training.

Safari trusted me much more therefore able to push him a little bit more.

I am still earning Martinis trust and we are still getting to know one another.

 

[getwozzy]

I see Delfin's point about the earthquake method- I personally use it as a "last resort" when moving her beak off with my fingers doesn't work or if my other hand is occupied (holding something). And sometimes the earthquakes don't even work- sometimes I just have to simply redirect her elsewhere, by putting her on her cage, boing, wherever or making sure she doesn't have another motive (hungry, scared, bored)

Beth is right, it all depends on the individual bird and how they respond to training. Some methods work, some don't *shrugs shoulders*

 

[strudel]

it all depends on the individual bird and how they respond to training. Some methods work, some don't *shrugs shoulders*

Well, the pushing beak away did not go over well with my madam. She did not like that one little bit.... We shall see tomorrow whether it was any sort of a deterrent or whether she'll just hate me now.

 

[crimson]

today I let Martini out of her cage,she totally blew by me and flew off.
I let out some of my other birds then left the bedroom.

when I came back in later, she flies to me, lands just under my neck and gave me a hefty love bite on my lower lip!....not hard but she meant it.
It totally caught me off guard, and happened so quickly I didn't know what to think.

At first I was mad, and yelled at her(yeah I know, I felt bad afterwards, but it was a momentary reaction)
so she flies off to a perch.

I ignore her, and start feeding my baby cockatiels and red rump parakeets.
she flies to my shoulder and started pruning my neck....it sort of tickled, but I was still angry, so I ignored her.

I still felt badly that I yelled at her though.

Normally when she flies to me I put my hand up for her to land on, but I had the measuring cup full of syringes, so she landed on me instead.

Out of all my pets(and I've had plenty) she is the first one that is nippy, none of my other birds have ever bitten me....guess I'm pretty lucky in that respect.

 

[getwozzy]

Sounds like she's got a bit of an attitude today I hope she didn't get your lip too bad

Chili has a habit of giving me love nips on my neck, ears, or whatever is in nipping range if she's on my shoulder- which isn't very often *because* she's so beaky. I would suggest next time she lands on you like that (if you have an available hand!) remove her and place her on a perch or stand until you're available to give her the attention she's seeking.

The beakiness will hopefully get better with time (and training) so she may not be like this for eternity

 

[RavensGryf]

I hope she didn't get your lip too bad

The beakiness will hopefully get better with time (and training) so she may not be like this for eternity

I second this Beth

 

[crimson]

I went into the bedroom again later, and I approached her in a totally different manner.
I stood there talking to her for just a moment, and she flew to me, I put my hand up, and landed on me.

I didn't touch her, just stood there talking to her, her beak was open and she was trying to reach for something to beak, but I wouldn't let her, I spoke to her calmly and in a low firm voice, "no, be gentle"....after a moment she looked at me and lowered her head to be scratched.

when I stopped giving her scritches she raised her head and looked at me....then I slowly moved my fingers towards her beak to rub them(she loves that)....she let me do it without so much as a nip, or any beaking.....

I think what has happened is we were rushing a bit with her, picking her up, and wanting to give her beak rubs or scritches, not really allowing her to just be with us for a moment.

the good thing is I am not the least bit afraid of her or her beak, (at least not yet anyways haha) so I know she won't hurt.

when she beaks, there is no intent behind her actions, I honestly think she just doesn't know any better. when she is calm, and getting cuddles she is super sweet.

shirre- considering you have a too, I guess you really have to be aware of her movements at all times. has she ever bitten you hard or hurt you?

 

[getwozzy]

I think you're on the right track- I think maybe just keep an eye on her body language and follow her cues.

Beaking (IMO) is the equivalent of a baby/toddler who sticks things in their mouth- they mean no harm, but they want to explore their world.

I'm not scared of Chili's beak either, but I still take precautions- because of her beakiness I don't let her sit on my shoulder regularly, and any interactions involving my face are watched carefully-- letting her preen my eyelashes was an interesting experience. I was terribly frightened she was going to beak my eyeball area, but I wanted to give her that trust. But she ever so gently preened my eyelashes and it actually tickled!!!
Despite our bond and our current level of trust, I still am careful- when she's scared she will give me a slight pinch to let me know and then I will remove her from the situation. Also, if she gets over excited she can get nippy- I always make sure she's in my line of sight so I can watch her body language and predict what's going to happen next.

Thankfully she has not bit me hard enough to leave a bruise, break the skin, or make me bleed- even though she's more than capable of doing so. She has nipped me pretty good on occasion, but it has always been MY fault. (For not "listening" to her)