What rock does this woman live under?

[Kiwibird]

First a compliment to the wonderful members here on PF- Great job PF for maintaining a friendly, positive and NON-PRETENTIOUS environment for people to share, ask questions and learn from novices to advanced.

Now the rant

Without naming names, I recently joined a forum to try to learn a little more about tortoises, since I have always wanted one, and have no idea about their care needs, housing, lighting ext... Not looking to buy one right this minute, but just a thought in my mind that I figured could't hurt to look into.

So I basically come out (with a little more detail) and say I know nothing about these animals, their care, even all the species, but could someone perhaps suggest a couple species that fit into xyz general size/care needs. Basically (in parrots terms) whats the budgie of the tortoise world-small and for beginners and the basic needs they have. There were quite a few people who gave some polite and helpful suggestions, but one ogre must've decided to crawl out of her cave today. Basically told me if you couldn't possibly own a tortoise unless you provide it acres of land to roam freely on and burrow into the soil, and year round heated outdoor blablabla, and how the animal would "suffer" if not given that. After a couple replies from this woman, and me thinking, oh, she's not meaning to be offensive-

Me:
I would be able to provide an outdoor space, just not year round and can't really be sure if I would always have the ability to have something like a greenhouse. I also am not opposed to exploring around indoors, just supervised of course. I have heard of people who just put up a baby gate and keep their tortoise running free in a specific room in their house, which would be fine too so long as I am home (which is most of the day).

This woman:
If you think this is fine, then go with it. It won't work though long term. This is a cold blooded reptile that needs to bask, thermoregulate by digging into deep substrate and otherwise live as a tortoise has evolved to do. We cannot expect such an animal to adapt to such conditions. As mentioned, it's your choice at the end of the day, but I would not sell one of mine to such a life. Someone might though, such as a pet shop or dealer. Good luck


I had been nice and though she was just trying to emphasize they aren't "easy care" kind of thing up until she busted out this gem of a comment. I have a good feeling this lady is essentially saying in bird terms "if you don't have a 50x50' year round outdoor, heated flight cage for your single budgie, it will suffer and never be happy". Yeah, right lady. I may still be doing research but I wasn't dropped on my head here. I have been looking at how people constructed huge, multi-level indoor enclosures with nice lighting, and since I have all the time in the world to prepare for it and when I get one, I can build a proper indoor enclosure and outdoor run I doubt the animal would "suffer" in. It's not like I have one and now don't know what to do with it, I'm doing my research first (which I thought was a positive thing). But I think I shall be doing my research elsewhere and looking around on other, less hostile forums. I don't need to be degraded and made to feel like an idiot/future animal abuser.

Sorry for the rant, but this pissed me off!

 

[Sterling1113]

Ughhh, I hate people like that! If she really had a passionate outlook for tortoises(like we here have for our fids) then she should have been MORE than happy to give you some insight on what she thinks is appropriate(Without belittling you or minimizing your concerns..). And if she were smart enough she'd know that you were only looking for advice on the proper care, which is the SMART and SENSIBLE thing to do before looking to buy a new pet, but she couldn't appreciate that one bit?! Apparently not!
I feel for you, that really just sucks!! I wish I could send a virtual slap on the back of the head to this un-named woman.. Buh.
Lord help her should she ever take an interest in parrots.. we don't need her coming around here telling us our sleeping cages are too small, because what if the bird wants to do laps at 3 AM to exercise?? How dare we limit them to only our houses/the lengths of their harness leads? (Sarcasm.. of course.)
I wouldn't have been able to keep my sarcastic-a**hole-ish words under control if I were in your situation.. kudos! Hah.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Oh gees, April, I'm sorry Miss Ogre got you so worked up. And I can completely see why, too!

There's nothing worse than folks who decorate themselves to such high honors, not realizing how belligerent they are. She sure sounds like a self proclaimed expert.

What's sad is that she obviously was too self absorbed to give CONSTRUCTIVE and well meaning advice.

I know nothing about tortoises, but I do know one thing: There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

HUGS, April Don't let Miss Ogre ruin your day.

 

[TessieB]

You got those kind everywhere. Don't let 'em get to you. Contact the nearest zoo and see if they can direct you toward a local tortise club.

 

[strudel]

There are always "types" on the internet to get your goat. You did get some helpful replies, so just ignore the tortoise nazi and interact with the "normal" members.

I've seen this sort of thing on LOTS of forums. There are people who (for reasons a psychologist could probably explain) NEED to criticise. There are always hivemind attitudes on pet forums. You must do this, or this, or this and everything else is wrong. For example, here we would say you can't have a dog unless you've got a backyard, but in Paris people have dogs in apartments. The secret to that is that the dog isn't confined to the apartment, it goes everywhere with the owner. It has a different life to Australian dogs who aren't allowed to go anywhere so they need a bigger home space. Even here, you could have a happy, well tended big dog living in an apartment if it spent a lot of time outdoors and exercising and going to work with an owner. People are too quick to judge something on limited information.

There are different circumstances and different opinions. Take what you need and leave the rest, make your own decisions.

EDIT. I was typing as others were posting. OR, as Jersey Wendy said "there's more than one way to skin a cat"

 

[Kiwibird]

I am not an inherently mean person, but I basically told her to go *!* herself, in nicer words. Now I'm off to go stick Kiwi in a tree, because *obviously* he suffering without a whole forest at his disposal Hope he likes snuggling up to a pinecone tonight instead of his soft, cozy hut. It's only natural after all!

And thanks everyone for letting me know I'm just not being overly sensitive here or taking her out of context.

@Strudel- Tortoise Nazi lolololol
@TessieB- A local club is a great idea! Getting better advice from a bird person than someone who owns the animal I'm curious about (or do you own one)

 

[Sterling1113]

I am not an inherently mean person, but I basically told her to go *!* herself, in nicer words. Now I'm off to go stick Kiwi in a tree, because *obviously* he suffering without a whole forest at his disposal

Ahaha.. that's hilarious. I don't think my birds would let go of me long enough to LET me put them in a tree!!

 

[strudel]

@Strudel- Tortoise Nazi lolololol

No tortoise for you! Next!

 

[RavensGryf]

Ugh. I'm so sorry that happened. I'd be really angry too! All you expected was the usual friendly or at least informative reply with advice that you asked for...

My two budgies love their 50x50' year round outdoor heated flight, with humidity control, and a lighting system to simulate the exact day/night conditions in their native Australia. It would be cruel to have it any other way...
LOL!!! :30: hope no one believed me for a second haha

 

[Kiwibird]

I don't know why that irked me so much, but I feel the million little twinges of anger I normally just push down and take the high road on in all kinds of situation just boiling up all at once. To think people like that exist out there is why I'm an antisocial loner who would rather hang out with my parrot lol . At least his behavior is explainable.

 

[TessieB]

I do own a box turtle. My Dad gave him to me on my wedding day (Don't ask. That's just who he was). I still have the turtle and the husband. The turtle was a 2 inch hatchling and has survived all my mistakes at turtle husbandry. He now lives with the birds (the turtle, not the husband), and roams the floor at random. He does have an outdoor 'facility' that he uses in the summer-only when I'm present as the local population of racoons, feral cats, dogs, oppossum etc would think nothing about making him a snack.

I also know a lady who owns a 40 year old red-eared slider. She was given the turtle as a child and kept it. She still has it. The thing is bigger than a dinner plate and loves to eat cat food. Since it is a water turtle, the owner does have challenges to house her, but heck, the turtle is 40 years old!

 

[LauraBear]

There are just some people out there that feel like they are All Mighty and Knowing of what they care for. There's one in every bunch. Sorry you had to deal with that.

In other news, have you looked into Pancake Tortoises? They're small, they're flat, they're the fastest tortoise in the world, and they are the only tortoise that can flip themselves back over. And they don't get bigger then a foot, if that... more like half a foot! Spunky little guys, I used to take care of two named Pancake and Waffle. They do have a tendency to wedge themselves into tight spaces though, Pancake once decided it was a great idea to pretend to be a book on a bookcase one day. Took two hours to find him... just make sure you're room is secure!

 

[strudel]

I don't know why that irked me so much,

Because her opinion was judgmental and dismissive? I, in my high and mighty lofty know-it-all position can cast judgment on YOU! And my judgment is that you are a dimwitted fool incapable of offering a suitable home!!!!

Why it annoyed you isn't a mystery.

 

[getwozzy]

Wow!!! That ogre must've been off her rocker or something!!

I wanted to share this picture, because this guy is huge

 

[Kiwibird]

I do own a box turtle. My Dad gave him to me on my wedding day

Oh my, you got a turtle for your wedding gift I bet he (the turtle) has lasted a lot longer than towels though. I got a lecture and a sympathy card from my uncle when I got married:52:

@Laurabear- I have never heard of pancake tortoises, I will look into them

@Getwozzy- That's a whopper of a tortoise! Is it yours or at a zoo!? I'm thinking no bigger (and preferably smaller) than a baseball hat at full grown adult size.

 

[getwozzy]

It's actually at the local pet store (the one I'm not happy with) ...they have 3 of these guys, that one is the biggest, then there's a medium and a small one.

They roam about free-range and have a little corner for themselves that have heat lamps and also heat pads they can rest on.

I kinda wish he was mine though! Lol it's kinda funny- I was telling my husband last night maybe we could have a tortoise roaming about the house hahha

 

[LauraBear]

@Getwozzy African Sulcata Tortoise! Those guys get up to 200 lbs and live to be 100 years. And they're the 3rd largest tortoise in the world. Also they are commonly the most discarded/disowned pet because people often buy them when they are the size of a quarter not knowing how big they get. We have 3 at the zoo I work at... but you definitely need a big yard for them...

Sorry... my Zoo Education Specialist side came out.... I love animals... haha


EDIT: Also since you mentioned that it's the pet store you aren't pleased with... these guys have obvious signs of malnutrition which can be noted by the high pyramiding on their scutes... sadness. Take one home! Save it!

 

[getwozzy]

@laurabear Wow!!! That's amazing! Well, we have 6.5 acres- is that big enough???

I don't think I'd want something as big as the sulcata though....


OMG are you serious?! Now I'm even more pissed at them my heart just keeps sinking at the thought of these animals they have

 

[MomtoPercy]

Sometimes people talk (or type ) without thinking. She may have had bad experiences in he past (or just worried for the animal) that causes her to be extra sensitive. I know I am guilty of having made at least a few comments on here that were too harsh, but were based simply on my concern for the wellbeing of someone's parrot. That said - even though I am guilty too, I would never condone such behaviour. I've had to eat humble pie and apologise when I stepped over the line and this Ms Ogre should do the same. Concern for an animal (which in your case technically doesn't even exist yet!) is no excuse to be mean and hurtful. Sorry that your very sensible enquiries got such a nasty response. If more people would do what you did and asked questions before adopting any animal, there would be much fewer unfortunate animals abandoned because they didn't turn out as the uneducated owner expected.

Please DO NOT put darling Kiwi in a tree! Rather put him in that pimp daddy carrier and ship him over the sea to meeeeee!!!!

 

[Mattroma]

When I had my tortoises I can honestly say I noticed a huge difference in their over all happiness in the summer when they roamed large paddock where they could graze on grasses and soak in the natural sun light. Indoors I felt I couldn't provide them with enough room, proper lighting, and basking areas, but that being said my largest tortoise was pushing 40lbs.
I would recommend sticking to smaller species, it is defiantly easier to meet their needs year round.