Vet Visit...Opinions Please? Not happy....

[MissyMe83]

So today I decided to take Tate in for a nail trim. Posted earlier about going but couldn't figure out how to update the title so I decided to create another... anyhow...

I made sure to go to an Avian certified vet yet the minute i walked in and saw the Amazon sitting behind the desk I thought about turning around and walking right back out. It was in a cage far too small, was really dirty and covered in feces, had the side of a cardboard box to act as a grate/poop catcher, had ONE link type toy that only had two links to it, a water dish, food dish, and two perches. That's IT! Now....the one perch was just a hunk of squared off wood like a 2'' by 2'' chunk that had a little drilled out of each end to make it stay in between the bars and the other perch was a pedicure perch with a small length and diameter. Sized more apropriately for a parakeet. The one I bought for Tate is twice if not three times as big. Not what I would use for a large bird such as an Amazon. It also appeared pretty listless. Just sitting there on the wood block not making a peep.

I never imagined an Avian certified vet keeping an Amazon in such a manner...They were proud enough to list him as a member of the "staff" on the wall but not enough to treat him better??? I don't understand. I was hoping that the other staff would all go back into one of the rooms at the same time cause I wanted to take out my phone and snap a picture sooo bad. Otherwise, it's hard to believe that I'm not exaggerating...

So despite my gut instinct to turn around and walk out I sat there long enough to get called back... The vet and an assistant were waiting in the room with the gram scale ready. Weighed him in at 213 grams. Then they went right into trying to towel him. Once positioned correctly in the towel she turned on the dremmel and carefully grabbed each toe. I was pleasantly pleased until she then brought out the quick stop for two toes.... How hard is it to carefully trim a nail with a dremmel, one person holding, be an experienced AVIAN vet and get too close on TWO toes to the point of towelling off the blood and clotting with the quick stop?! Am I being dramatic? I guess I just feel like they had control of him. His foot was still...how can you make what I consider two mistakes? I'm just not a happy camper.

Tate is now sleeping from all the stress. I feel terrible. I'm definately doing a broader search to see if i can't find another avian vet locally. Then I'm going to go and make a visit FIRST.

What are your feelings on this?? I need to know if I'm being harsh or justified. Thank you!

 

[FutureDVM]

Wow. If I saw a bird in those conditions, I would immediately turn around and walk out the door. As far as the nail trimming goes...you can't totally blame the vet. Every animal is different and sometimes the blood supply to the nail is much longer than you would think. I work at a vet clinic and no matter how many times you've practiced trimming nails, you're occasionally going to make an animal bleed.

 

[IcyWolf]

I wouldn't be going back, I probably would have remarked on the care of their amazon too, they should know better and it is really irresponsible having a bird on display that is being cared for in that manner, how many people are going to see that and think that it must be appropriate to keep a bird that way since they saw it being done by a certified avian vet.
I also think bleeding 2 nails is unacceptable for a vet. I could maybe understand if they were doing it without help, on a bird that isn't cooperative or with a bird that has severely overgrown nails, but with two people and a towel, there isn't much excuse for bleeding nails with a dremel. I can go through and cut all of our birds nails and not spill a drop of blood and I'm not a vet. I'm not going to say that I've never bled a bird, I have, but it was when I was working at the pet shop and I literally would have to do these large, usually not friendly birds, by myself and sometimes you just nick the quick, it does happen, but once you do it once, that's it, you should know how far you can cut or file, it shouldn't happen a second time. I watched the owner of the store do birds and she would bleed EVERY nail and then quick stop them all, like it was no big deal. I personally don't even like quick stop, unless it is bleeding very badly(which it shouldn't be) flour is good enough to stop the bleeding just as fast and flour doesn't burn. I never realized how much quick stop hurts until I worked in that grooming shop. I would have little cuts on my hands or tears in my cuticles and I would get the stuff in them and it burnt like a you know what for about 5-10 minutes!

 

[IcyWolf]

Wow. If I saw a bird in those conditions, I would immediately turn around and walk out the door. As far as the nail trimming goes...you can't totally blame the vet. Every animal is different and sometimes the blood supply to the nail is much longer than you would think. I work at a vet clinic and no matter how many times you've practiced trimming nails, you're occasionally going to make an animal bleed.

I agree with you that yes, sometimes a bird does have extremely long quicks, especially if the nails haven't been trimmed in awhile, but if you cut one and it bleeds and you didn't take what's normally considered "too much" off, then you explain to the owner that they have long quicks in their nails and the best way to deal with it is to only tip the nails, and then do it again in about two weeks, and then do it again, eventually the quick will recede and you can cut them as normal. It's not always the answer people want, because it means more trips and depending on the vet, more money, but it's the only real way to get the nails short again without hurting the bird.

 

[MissyMe83]

Wow. If I saw a bird in those conditions, I would immediately turn around and walk out the door.

DVM, I really should have...I'm beating myself up over it now. : (

**IcyWolf**

Thanks for all the input. I really considered saying something to the staff, but part of me just didn't know how to approach the situation. I now think I may go ahead and prepare a letter and send it off. That way I can remain anonymous and also get out everything I want to regarding the condition in which they are keeping the Amazon. I think I'll even send toys. Yep, that's what I'm going to do damn it.

As far as the nails...I'm with you. I don't see the room for error here. If he was moving around and pulling his foot this way and that way and there weren't two of you, okay, but not in this situation. I just think there could have been more care involved... I simply wanted a little trim. He's only just over 6 months old....just take off the point, make it comfortable for him to walk around...

 

[Spiritbird]

What a nightmare. Since this vet is avaian cert. you can go the the web site and register a complaint, I would imagine or better yet write a letter. Written words are more powerful than an e mail, I think anyway. Kwik stop burns the stings the bird like alchol would on us. Shame on that vet.

http://www.aav.org/

 

[FutureDVM]

Wow. If I saw a bird in those conditions, I would immediately turn around and walk out the door. As far as the nail trimming goes...you can't totally blame the vet. Every animal is different and sometimes the blood supply to the nail is much longer than you would think. I work at a vet clinic and no matter how many times you've practiced trimming nails, you're occasionally going to make an animal bleed.

I agree with you that yes, sometimes a bird does have extremely long quicks, especially if the nails haven't been trimmed in awhile, but if you cut one and it bleeds and you didn't take what's normally considered "too much" off, then you explain to the owner that they have long quicks in their nails and the best way to deal with it is to only tip the nails, and then do it again in about two weeks, and then do it again, eventually the quick will recede and you can cut them as normal. It's not always the answer people want, because it means more trips and depending on the vet, more money, but it's the only real way to get the nails short again without hurting the bird.

Absolutely. That is exactly what we do where I work. I'm not trying to say that the vet is perfect. I'm sure the situation could have been handled much better. All I was getting at is that even the best vets can make mistakes.

However, regardless of the nail issue, I would never return to that vet.

 

[roxynoodle]

That is so horrible to hear about that poor amazon! When I first started reading the post, I was thinking, maybe it was just dumped off on them that day by it's uneducated owner. But, to find out they list it as "staff" and treat it that way makes me very angry!

My vet has several birds that live in the offices and have free roam. I asked about them on Friday. The Quaker was unwanted by it's owner and given to them. The African Red Bellied parrot was allowed to play with a cockatoo by it's owner and the cockatoo ripped off it's beak and severely injured it. The owner couldn't pay the bills and left it with them. There are also several budgies that people didn't want.

They have boings, swings and parrot toys everywhere. All of the cages they have for birds being boarded or who have to stay for medical reasons are huge, good quality and clean.

There are several vet assistants, and they all own birds and are very good at working with them. The first time I was there with Merlin, she was pretty frightened and would only step up for me. The second time she knew them and asked both the assistants and the vet for pets and stepped up for them as well. Pete also liked them much better than my previous vet and even cuddled a bit with one of the vet assistants.

I've only had Pete's nails dremeled by them and no blood or trauma and he dealt with it well. The only time I had to have Rowdy's done was when I first got her and one did bleed at that vet, who was not avian certified but was the best I could do in this area at that time.

 

[henpecked]

I don't like the Dremel tool, if your not careful, it can get too hot and burn the bird. I'd rather clip and sand lightly with a nail file.If the nails are over grown then the long quicks will always be an issue, I use corn starch for bleeding ,doesn't hurt birds.

 

[BillsBirds]

I would never trust a vet that exhibits such poor treatment of a bird! And, an AVIAN vet to boot! I have known regular vets that were not Avian certified who had better set-ups for birds in their office. And more careful with nail trims. Please report this to the AAV. It is unacceptable!

 

[usamimi]

I don't like the Dremel tool, if your not careful, it can get too hot and burn the bird. I'd rather clip and sand lightly with a nail file.If the nails are over grown then the long quicks will always be an issue, I use corn starch for bleeding ,doesn't hurt birds.

I use cornstarch too! works fine and yes, our conure has super long quicks so I have nicked one or two. I'm less worried about a bird licking off cornstarch than styptic.

I'm sorry that vet was terrible, thankfully as spiritbird mentioned, they're registered so you have a place to complain. Hopefully there;s another local vet.

 

[ShreddedOakAviary]

everyone always expects so much from Avian vets, it's sad, but i've found that a regular vet whose willing to learn often does a better job at everything than most "avian" vets I've had. I keep one avian vet handy just in case I need a surgery. Aside from that, we simply pick a vet whose good with small animals or exotics and work with him. (aside from being a little under aggresive in his doses, he does an amazing job). As far as grooming... I do mobile grooming, the other breeder I know will groom anybodies bird for no charge (I don't charge either), point is... for grooming see if there is an experienced breeder somewhere near you. (just my advice).

 

[antoinette]

I am so angry I had better keep my cool here.................
They are suppose to set a good example, SOMETHING HE IS DEFINITELY NOT DOING
Unacceptable for sure, please do report him.

 

[mnkeastman]

How horrid for you and poor Tate! I am so sorry you and he had to go thru that. I would definitely follow it up with a letter, maybe make a copy and send it to the vet certification board that the other forum posters mentioned as well.

Wow makes you want to go kidnap their Amazon! I agree with IcyWolf though my worse fear about this situation is poorly educated owners will see the way he is kept and think it is acceptable. That is heartbreaking!

I hope you can find another Vet for him before you have a reason to have him seen again so you don't have to go there even in an emergency!

 

[mygirl]

have you tried just filing your birds nails, mylah is nearly 3 and we have never had to clip her nails we just file them, she sits on her stand and holds her foot up and lets us file them with no probs

 

[roxynoodle]

have you tried just filing your birds nails, mylah is nearly 3 and we have never had to clip her nails we just file them, she sits on her stand and holds her foot up and lets us file them with no probs

That's what I did with my other conure. But, I started doing it lightly as soon as she came home from the breeders. I do want to see how Pete will react, as he isn't so fond of his cement perch as Rowdy and Merlin are of theirs. Pete was also owned by someone who loved him very much, but wasn't the most educated owner. In his case, I wanted the vet to deal with his nails and beak first.

 

[MissyMe83]

Yes, I would like to get to the point that I can just file his nails myself, but I just don't think that we are there yet. I wanted to cause him as little stress as possible and didn't want him to be upset with ME, so figured it would be easier to have a vet quickly get it done.
As far as everything else...I've given myself some time to think it over and I'm going to write a letter stating my opinions and voice how upset I am to see such a thing at a Vet's office...etc. Will probably even include pictures of what kind of set up they should have for the Amazon. Second, I'm having a shipment sent to the office with toys, proper food (cause I can only guess that he isn't being fed well either), and a comfortable and appropriate perch - sent from Mysafebirdstore- again anonymously. I will wait a few days after I know the shipment has been received and go back. If they have not at the very least used what I have sent and tried to improve I will non-discretely snap a photo or two of him and file a complaint everywhere I possibly can.

 

[roxynoodle]

That's a very nice thing for you to do. I can only hope they will use your gift, but you would think an avian vet would understand his needs, wouldn't you? I have only had my zon a few months, but it wasn't hard for me to figure out what sizes he needed for perches and toys. I admit, the day I brought him home I only had 2 perches to start with, but I quickly made him more, and ran out to the store the next day to find more toys for him. The plastic ones he came with were not appropriate and he quickly started shredding them, and I worried he ate plastic.

 

[oled]

I would come back one more time,,and stand up for the perrot !!just tell the what you thing about treating a pet like that, and then nerwer coming back, or maybe one just to check that the perrot now is treated Ok. This story makes me really angry

 

[MissyMe83]

I couldn't really concentrate at work until I had come up with the letter I was going to send. Now that I have that out of the way I need to get to work! But, I thought I'd share it with all of you that had shown your concern as well.... : ( I am omitting the vets actual names just to be respectful...

Dr. ******, Dr. ***** & Staff,

I performed a search for an Avian Certified Vet in the Fort Wayne area and was relieved to find that out of all the veterinary clinics in our area you were the only office that actually had Avian Certified Drs. I am very concerned with the well being of my feathered babies and only want them to receive the most excellent professional care suited to their unique and specific needs. I find that so many people in general do not understand, nor are they very informed/educated with the most up to date information regarding their proper care, enrichment, and nutrition.
This all being said, I was very surprised (to be polite) to see the condition of the cage that housed your staff Amazon Koko. Please understand that I am only writing this out of concern and my feelings come from a good place. I am not here to bash anyone or make anyone feel “attacked,” but I must voice my opinions and concerns. I understand that I do not know this birds’ history, so I can only base this from what I saw. In my opinion his cage is far too small for him. The only thing that was appropriate with his cage was the actual bar spacing. It did not appear to be as clean as I would have liked to see, nor did it offer what I consider to be appropriate perches for his comfort, size, or foot health. I noticed that he only had one toy in his cage and only one food dish along with his water dish. I did not see any foraging toys/treats, fresh foods, or mineral supplements. Parrots should not be living in small cages, under-stimulated, and lacking the proper items to keep them emotionally content. Not at this day in age, and certainly not in an environment which their needs should be fully understood.
I feel that an Avian Certified Vet should set the bar in terms of showing others how to properly care for parrots. It breaks my heart to think that people who are not even familiar with parrots will come into your clinic and think that Koko is being cared for to the best of your ability, and that is simply not the case. It does not set a good example and could perhaps affect or influence the decisions of others, therefore, affecting the lives of other parrots and their well being.
To show that my concern is coming from a good place and I am not being a hypocrite with my parrot care standards I have included pictures of my parrots’ accommodations and have placed an order for items that I have purchased especially for Koko from the online bird store that I use. I hope that you will use these items and continue to be involved in his enrichment and happiness.

Thank you,
Anonymous Client