Very quiet since Vet visit 2 days ago

[TiredOldMan]

Whenever a vet won't work on your bird in front of you that is a red flag.
Surgeries, x-ray sure but the normal care should be done in front of you.
that's what my vet does. even blood tests.

texsize

My vets will do the physical exam in my presence but not anything else. Even a nail trim is done away from me.

I don't like it but don't know what I can do about it.

I have thought about taking them to Texas A&M. It's only 2 hours away and the vet I go to is an hour away but I don't know if the situation would be different.

 

[ChristaNL]

Its double edged:
Some vets have this idea about "we are scary, best not let your bird associate you with the scary procedure" and others have this "Hey, your bird is happy to have you here and that means far lower stresslevels and a better experience, plze stay".

I think they should just ask the owner more, instead of just asuming things - we know our parrots!

I always hate it when they take the birds away for anethesthics- because I know that half the freaking out is because well... being seperated in a scary new place.
But there is no other way they can work on a not fully tame macaw of course- the physical went just fine, but for the blooddraw they needed a sedated bird.
(CAV had broken her wrist some time before and she did not trust herself to be able to help hold her in the right way and there was the legbandremoval as well...)

CAV here is kind of concerned about the "white clinic-coat= fear"-reaction some parrots learn.
And laughed her arse off when I explained I *do* have a white coat to at home for training purposes (and am not afraid to use it!), I must have been the first person she met that thought about that aspect of parrotlife?
(really? I thought it was commonplace)

 

[sherylb]

She fluffs like that when she is relaxing or napping. She's done that alot the last 2 days since the vet. She also has been perching on 1 foot alot because of the sore foot I think, but i know they do that anyway. The vet said they sprayer her with water, not sure why??? She didn't need a bath. I am suspicious of that because as much as her nail was bleeding when she was brought back I think she probably had blood on her and they sprayed her to get it off? I don't know but after a stressful thing like that I don't know why you would spray a bird! The whole experience was a nightmare. I did find a great Vet to check out when I need to though. I will ask lots of questions next time I need a vet visit and won't let them take her to another room.

 

[texsize]

For myself I want to be there.
Sometimes I help to hold my bird and sometimes I just try to keep them calm.
When dealing with a bird that is gravely ill I am already very upset and it would take serious intervention to make me leave.

Of the 2 vers in my area that will treat birds 1 is an exotic pet vet not a CAV. They tend to take the bird in the back room to work on them, even the minor stuff. The advantage of this vet is that they are much closer than my CAV and I can usualy get in quicker.

My CAV on the other hand is 20 min. to 1/2 hour away. Works on my Fids in front of me and allows me to help when needed. My biggest problem with him is he is always focused on the gram - bacteria in the crop and …. IDK I don't think he is through enough.
Both of my Amazons that died were under his care. Were seen 2/3 times before the died and weren't helped in the slights through his care. Maybe nobody could have helped. Things go downhill so fast.


texsize

 

[EllenD]

Oh wow, I'm so sorry...this is exactly why you should NEVER get your bird's beak "trimmed", it should not be necessary at all unless they have an underlying condition causing it such as Fatty Liver Disease, in which case an Exotic's Vet should never be used...

They most-likely "sprayed-her" because she was covered head to toe in the dust created by the Dremel to her beak...That's how they do it, they use a power rotary tool like a Dremel, which creates an enormous amount of dust all over the bird...I personally know of 2 birds and then another one, an Eclectus from this forum, all who died after having their beaks trimmed with a Dremel. Two of them died due to the dust literally clogging their airways, and the other just from the stress of the procedure. This is why they washed her down, so that they didn't bring her back to you covered in dust...

And Exotic's Vet has no idea what they are doing because they get absolutely no extra education or training in treating any specific types of animals, they are just General Dog/Cat Vets who are willing to see any type of animal...When a bird's toenails are so long that the quick has grown out far, that also means that the nerves have grown out just as far as the vein has...So that's why she's in so much pain, because they simply cut her toenails down to nothing, right through the vein and the nerves.

The proper way to trim overgrown toenails in a bird that are this long (the way a CAV or Avian Specialist is educated/taught to do so) is to do it in steps; they trim as much as they can without clipping the vein or the nerve during the first visit, then they set up a second visit for 2 weeks later, trim a little more, and then again in another 2 weeks, etc. This is the safe, non-painful way to do it, and the only way where the bird is not at risk for a serious infection. My Green Cheek Conure, Bowie, almost died this past summer due to a bacterial infection that he initially got in his toe after I clipped the toenail too close and made it bleed. I have clipped bird toenails hundreds of times, and never had this happen before, but his toe became infected, and then quickly his entire foot blew-up like a balloon. I spent over $2,000 on cultures, blood-work, x-rays, and then antibiotic injections along with oral and topical antibiotics for 2 months. I got lucky, but it was an accident. This Exotic's Vet purposely cut all of your bird's toenails down as far as they could, and now he's in horrible pain, loss a lot of blood, which they don't have to lose, and he could possibly develop an infection in his toe/foot...So you'll need to keep an eye on his behavior, his eating, etc. and get him to a CAV or Avian Specialist immediately if his toes/feet start swelling or showing any red streaking, etc.

Please don't EVER have his beak done again, it's too dangerous and birds die all the time from just the stress of it, along with the fact that their beaks have tons and tons of nerve endings in them, and he may be in great pain from that as well...Your bird should never need to have is beak ground like this again, if his diet is good and he has a cement perch and a Mineral Block in his cage, he won't need it...At worst they should simply use a hand-file, but never a Dremel...

Keep a close eye on her, she's very stressed, she's suffering a great deal of anxiety from what they did to the beak, and she's in a lot of pain in her feet.

 

[sherylb]

Ellen, she is eating good but she is not active and playful like usual. It's been 3 days now. Her feet seem to be ok but yesterday when I got her bath she wanted to and did but she put her foot in the water it was shakey!! She still enjoyed her bath though. I will keep an eye out on her feet. I'm so disgusted with this because I am new to having a quaker and I believed the Vet when she said Kiwi needed this!!! She napped alot yesterday and the day before, today she is getting around her cage and going up and down better but is still not wanting to move around alot. She's not as sleepy and she's chatty but not as much. She's not talking like she usually does! She only says peekaboo and Poor baby right now! lol. Thanks for the info.

 

[EllenD]

Awe, I'm so sorry Shery, it's not your fault at all. This happens quite often to people who are new bird owners, they take their bird into an Exotic's Vet for "grooming", thinking that it's necessary for their health and well-being, like you do with a dog or a cat, and they end up with all kinds of issues and often tragedy. I've seen this happen before with beaks being ground-down, wings being clipped down to literally nothing, where the Exotic Vet takes all of their Primary and Secondary wings and the bird has nothing but stubs left, and it takes over a year for them to grow back, sometimes they don't ever grow back because they damage the follicles...I've seen toenails cut down to the skin of the toe...It's horrible. But it's not your fault, you're not the Veterinarian that should know better, or not be doing it if they don't...

Make sure you're checking her feet every single day, multiple times a day for swelling, puffiness, redness, bleeding, or any sign of an abscess/lump forming anywhere, both on top and on the bottom, and on all toes. Try to keep her cage/perches ultra clean for a while, scrubbing all of the poop off of anywhere she stands daily, so as to prevent infection...

****She is definitely stressed, and this is absolutely playing a part in her lethargy, sleepiness, and her attitude. However, since this Vet clipped all 8 of her toenails right down to nothing and let the veins bleed, she also most-likely lost a ton of blood, and with such a small bird, she is probably also Anemic. Keep an eye on her color, specifically the color of her beak, and if you see it looking at all gray or blue in color, then she is very Anemic and needs to get to a CAV immediately. In the meantime, it's very important that she's eating and drinking as much as possible. Now is the time to spoil her with sugary fresh fruit, as it will provide her with lots of hydration, and it will keep her blood sugar up. She needs lots of fluids, so fresh fruit such as apples, grapes, anything else that she likes is a really good idea. Also, even though you should not regularly give your birds citrus fruit because it enhances their absorption of iron, and birds can suffer from Iron Storage Syndrome if they absorb too much iron, I highly suggest that you give her a bit of orange juice to drink each day until she's feeling better. They usually love it, it's how I give my guys any medications they have to take orally. I just pour a little in the cap of the orange juice carton, and they drink it right out of the cap...She will benefit from the hydration, the sugar, and right now, the iron because she is definitely Anemic...You can also buy a container of unflavored Pedialyte or the generic store-brand of the same thing, and mix it half-and-half with her drinking water each day, that will get some electrolytes in her...

Keep us posted...I'm honestly not surprised she's still kind of gutted after 3 days, as they don't have that kind of blood to lose, they aren't like dogs or cats, and Exotic's Vets just don't get it. So not only did she lose a ton of fluids, she lost a ton of red blood cells, and it takes time for them to be replaced; that's why the extra hydration, sugar, etc. is so important. The little bit of orange juice once or twice daily for the next couple of days should make her feel better pretty quickly...

 

[lplummer52]

Birdie's vet clips her nails in about 2 minutes IN FRONT OF US every 4 months or so. I have no luck with perches. She's not in her cage enough to grind them down naturally and they become little razor blades. I will say that sometimes she holds one foot up a lot for a few days afterwards.

 

[EllenD]

Birdie's vet clips her nails in about 2 minutes IN FRONT OF US every 4 months or so. I have no luck with perches. She's not in her cage enough to grind them down naturally and they become little razor blades. I will say that sometimes she holds one foot up a lot for a few days afterwards.

Yes, but I'm assuming if your CAV does them every 4 months, they aren't clipping off veins and nerves in each toe as this bird went through. This Exotic's Vet didn't bother to trim very long toenails in steps, they just chopped them off at the quick and let them bleed...

 

[ChristaNL]

(emotional outburst coming up)


Yuck, once your 52-bird tells you it is sore/ in pain after a vetvisit --- these are animals that try to hide *EVERYTHING*; so when they (finally) show pain you can count on that it really fricking hurts!

Why would to do that to your bird every 4 months?

Why not just learn to use a nailfile as a normal part of the cuddling sessions ?! And spare the bird the misery of painfull feet?

I dare you: clip your own toenails way-way too short and walk around like normal (no cheating by sitting down a lot or taking off your shoes and socks).
It is okay if it happens once by mistake/ accident ... but putting your bird deliberately in that position again and again?
Really!?


==


Just to be very dutch about this: your bird will be with you for many, many years... learn to take care of the nails yourself, it will save you tons of vet-money, a load of stress and you'll always have a happily manicured/ pedicured bird and no gashes/ scratches in your own skin and clothes - because well... you've got this!

 

[bigfellasdad]

Whenever a vet won't work on your bird in front of you that is a red flag.
Surgeries, x-ray sure but the normal care should be done in front of you.
that's what my vet does. even blood tests.

texsize

My vets will do the physical exam in my presence but not anything else. Even a nail trim is done away from me.

I don't like it but don't know what I can do about it.

My vet is exactly the same, a good long chat with me and a quick look at Enzo and then off into the back room with her, followed by a chat about findings back in the original room. I do however have total trust in her vet and she has never been phased by her visits, so it seems she trusts him also.

To add about the bleeding, I cut one of my budgies nails too short when i was a young boy, i was heartbroken and never did it again. I would imagine a good vet would be more knowledgeable and careful than i was at the time. For interest, you can actually see a budgies blood line in the claws so its easy to know how far to cut.

 

[EllenD]

Okay, calm down, this post should be about the OP's Quaker and the Exotic's Vet who shouldn't be treating birds at all...I have been trimming my own bird's toenails forever, since I was a teenager (when needed, which is rarely because they all have cement perches for both their toenails and beaks), and I too occasionally clip just a hair too much on one of the dark nails and it bleeds. I keep corn starch or Qwik-Stop powder with me, which by the way doesn't burn/hurt on toenails, however it does on skin, so don't ever put it on skin that's bleeding, use the corn starch...

The difference here is that this Exotic's Vet clipped all of this Quaker's toenails down to nothing because they were all very long from the prior owner not caring for her, and they purposely clipped through the vein and nerve on each toenail instead of doing it in steps over time...While that's awful enough, I'm much more concerned about the Quaker's beak being ground with a Dremel by this same Exotic's Vet, if they can't trim toenails correctly then they sure as hell shouldn't be using a Dremel on a bird's beak!

I've seen birds die from having their beak's ground with a power rotary tool, and it should never need done in the first place, as a hand-file is much safer, much less stressful, and doesn't cause the huge amount of dust that the Dremel does, which is what typically kills the bird, their airways fill with the dust from their beaks. Somewhere on this forum there is a post about an Eclectus who died on the way home from having it's beak ground with a Dremel, the owner arrived with their perfectly happy and healthy Eclectus, left with a dying Eclectus, turned around when they reached their driveway because the bird started vomiting-up the dust it has swallowed, and by the time they got back to the same Vet's office, which was about 10 minutes away, their Eclectus was dead as he pulled back into the parking lot...It was an awful post...

But that's what happens, they inhale and swallow all of that beak dust...The OP's Quaker was given back soaking wet and she didn't know why, and they didn't tell her why...It was because they had to wash all of the beak dust off of the poor thing...

Bottom-line is that everyone makes mistakes, but anyone who has a license to practice Veterinary medicine should not be treating animals that they aren't educated about or trained to treat, nor should they be taking power tools to their faces or chopping off their nails!!!