Venus Is Sick

[labell]

When she goes back since this is her second run of antibiotics ask your vet for probiotics to help restore her good gut flora. Don't let them talk you into yogurt or anything dairy based though.

 

[Anansi]

I've never heard of squamous metapasia, so I'll go look it up. How serious does the doctor feel her condition is?

As for the vitamin A deficiency, try upping her intake of foods rich in either Vitamin A or beta carotene like carrots and pumpkin... as well as bell peppers and broccoli.

I'm hoping Venus gets past this soon.

 

[Taw5106]

I've been researching and found more on humans than birds but found this report on a study and necropsy.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Squam...infraorbital+sinus+with+fungal...-a0167430662

The description is close to what Venus is displaying, no nasal discharge, a popping sound but she doesn't shake her head as described.

 

[Taw5106]

When she goes back since this is her second run of antibiotics ask your vet for probiotics to help restore her good gut flora. Don't let them talk you into yogurt or anything dairy based though.

The vet gave me Sunshine Factor Daily Dietary Supplement. It's organic, GMO free and is "Certified organic sustainable red palm fruit oil." I'll call the vet in the morning and ask about probiotics. Ironically, I've been making carrots, corn, green beans, brown rice mix with fresh bean sprouts so she's been getting carrot every day since Saturday.

I've continued the aloe detox in their water too. Buddy hasn't shown any symptoms like Venus but they are kept separated from each other.

After the vet I took Venus shopping with me and she did so well. She wanted out of her cage and was trying to pick the lock to let herself out, lol. Once we got home I started her antibiotic and she snuggled against my neck and went to sleep, she is so amazingly sweet!!! I let her stay because I don't think she was feeling so great today.

 

[Anansi]

Here's what I found on it: "Specific deficiencies
* Vitamin A deficiency causes squamous metaplasia of the mucous membranes affecting oropharynx, respiratory, reproductive and renal tracts. The abnormal keratinisation blocks the ducts of the glands causing abscesses in the salivary and mucus glands."

The article goes on to say that a seed rich diet often leads to this deficiency, and if I remember correctly you said Venus was on all seeds before you got her.

Finally: "*Treatment of chronic vitamin deficiencies is by dietary change. However owners should be made aware that full improvement will take a year."

I assume the year estimate is in reference to those who seek to treat using dietary change only, as opposed to the direct injection of Vitamin A used by your avian vet.

 

[Anansi]

Did the vet say whether he will perform a diagnostic test to confirm the presence of an obstructive mass? And if confirmed, how, or even if, he plans on tackling that mass?

 

[Taw5106]

Wow you found it! That's what he described but he didn't know how long recovery would be. He asked about her diet and I told him she had been on a seed diet before I got her on 1/21/15, so if I am looking at a year, three months are down. He didn't offer a dx test but he did do a chest 2 view X-ray two weeks ago which showed her liver was enlarged, and her air sacs were very cloudy. Since the image was a chest, no image was done above her neck. When I see him Friday, I'm going to ask about treatment and further testing and images.

So at this point I am so frustrated at whoever had her prior and seed diets. It amazes me to see how this has impacted her and to know how bad it is for all birds. She also lost 5 grams since her last visit so I'm going to start feeding her by cup to make sure she is eating. At this point I wonder if a vitamin supplement would be beneficial but I've read that they are not for Ekkies.

 

[Anansi]

Only use vitamin supplements at the behest and specific direction of an avian vet who is experienced with ekkies. Otherwise you run the risk of making the issue worse... or adding another issue to the mix.

An all seed diet must've been rough on her system. How old is she again?

Vitamin A is supremely important for ekkies, so what I do is to have a beta carotene rich food present in every meal. Carrots and pumpkin are my heavy hitters in that regard. And due to their importance, I don't leave their ingestion to chance. For instance, Maya doesn't care for carrots. (Not sure about Jolly, but I prep their food together, so it hardly matters.) If I were to dice carrots and put them in her food cup, I'd find them there a few hours later... wholly untouched.

Unacceptable.

So I make it highly inconvenient for her to avoid eating it. I do this by grating the raw carrots into their food and mixing it in so that she'd have to go to extraordinary lengths to separate those slivers from the yummy garbanzo beans she loves so much. Or that succulent pomegranate seed. Some foods simply cannot be left to chance.

 

[Anansi]

As for the 5 lost grams, remember that the time at which her weight was taken could make a difference. Maya's weight from AM to PM can sometimes show as much as an 8-10 gram swing! Jolly tends closer to 5 gram swings. So it's not necessarily a cause for concern.

If you haven't already, you might want to invest in a good gram scale. (Remember that if you're getting one with a perch, you should make sure it has a tare function. Otherwise, you'll haver to do the math every time.) Having such a scale will allow you to monitor her (and Buddy's) weight on a daily basis, giving you an idea of their expected range.Then, if there's a dip that seems outside of the normal range, you can view it as a possible indication of a health issue.

 

[Taw5106]

So this morning I put fresh brown rice, grated carrot, potato and green bell pepper into the rice cooker. I hadn't thought about grating but WOW!!!!! I really like how it came out. I had been dicing their veggies, except bean sprouts. Those Venus devours while Buddy tosses them out of his bowl, lol. Venus came out of her cage this morning and she's moving around, very active today.

Can you send me a link to the article you found? I'm looking up information on recovery time and I'm going to pose the question to the vet. Does a vit A shot shorten the recovery time? That's my question to start with. Thanks for digging into this, I really appreciate your help deeply.

 

[Birdman666]

Since I got her on 1/21/15, I have not fed her seed, I know she was on a seed diet before but since I brought her home she gets fresh veg and fruit mixed with brown rice!

So I've asked the vet to tell me since I've changed her diet since January, when does improvement show???? I am so frustrated right now. Trying to be patient with news, but feeling like a failed parront initially. I'm still pulling info together to review, compare, etc. Just frustrated now.

THE DAMAGE WAS DONE BEFORE YOU GOT HER!!!

You are trying to reverse what was a lifetime thing. That doesn't happen overnight. BUT It does improve the situation... over time.

You are doing all the right things.

 

[Anansi]

So this morning I put fresh brown rice, grated carrot, potato and green bell pepper into the rice cooker. I hadn't thought about grating but WOW!!!!! I really like how it came out. I had been dicing their veggies, except bean sprouts. Those Venus devours while Buddy tosses them out of his bowl, lol. Venus came out of her cage this morning and she's moving around, very active today.

Can you send me a link to the article you found? I'm looking up information on recovery time and I'm going to pose the question to the vet. Does a vit A shot shorten the recovery time? That's my question to start with. Thanks for digging into this, I really appreciate your help deeply.

You're very welcome, Tracey. I'm just glad I can help. Believe me, I know how difficult it can be trying to figure out how to help your bird when he/she gets sick.

Here is the link to that article: http://www.petchef.co.uk/avain_nutrition.htm

And here is another article that covers quite a few ailments that can come about as the result of dietary deficiencies, including squamous metaplasia: http://beautyofbirds.com/nutritionalrequirementsofparrots

But since it's so long, here's the section that pertains to Venus' situation: "Keratinization of epithelial cells occurs, causing squamous metaplasia*(benign change in the surface of cells that line the organs) of the mucous membranes and the glands of the oropharynx, leading to hyperkeratosis (production of too much keratin). The metaplasia blocks the ducts of the salivary and mucus glands, causing submandibular swelling involving abscesses filled with a yellowish, caseous exudate and blunting of the choanal papillae (small protuberances on the roof of the mouth). Ptyalism (excessive salivation) occurs and sinusitis is common.White or pale swellings in the*inter-ramular*(the movable hinge joints in the jaw) region, beneath the tongue or elsewhere in the oropharynx, plaques in the mouth, or occlusion and swelling of the salivary gland ducts."

 

[Taw5106]

We got a good report, she's improved a little, lost another gram so I'm going to hand feed her to get her to eat more and slip some garbanzo beans, fig and soaked almonds into her diet.

After the vet Husband I went to a restaurant with outdoor seating. A lady stopped and told me she use to have an Ekkie. She knew Venus right away. She told me her male Ekkie died. It was cold outside, she put him the garage for the night the next morning he's was seizing. He had swallowed a fishing hook he found in the garage. That was a moment where I say i could Botox my face to keep it from reacting before my brain does.

Her weight is 380 gms, last visit it was 381 gms and two weeks ago 386. I got a ziegel scale for medium sized birds. Oh and the vet thinks she'll be back to 100% within 4-6 weeks. Also he did get an X-ray of her head when he did her chest and there is no blockage or mass, YAY!!!

 

[Anansi]

I'm so happy to hear that she's improving, Tracey!

 

[Anansi]

Oh, and when is the next follow up? And did the vet answer the questions you wanted to ask?

 

[Taw5106]

Next follow up is 5/16. The vet said he treated a Too and had to do surgery removing a section of his trachea and suturing it back together. He's not suggesting surgery so he and I are on the same page, no surgery.

 

[Taw5106]

We saw the vet today and Venus had a good check up but is not 100%. Batril continues and we go back in 2 weeks for another check up. She's gain weight, she's 391 gms so she is doing much better and is spunky again. Here she is waiting for the vet to come in.

ok pic later. Safari is having fits with pics. Sorry.

 

[Allee]

I'm glad Venus had a check up and her health is improving. Good to hear she's gaining weight and feeling a little better. You're such a good mom. Hugs to you and your little sweetie.

 

[Anansi]

This is so good to hear! I'm looking forward to the day that she is 100% better, but progress is always a good thing. Don't forget to share those pics!

 

[RavensGryf]

Great to hear a good update Tracey . Sometimes certain issues just take a lot of time, or treatment process involves waiting inbetween. I know how that is, frustrating! But of course when you hear they're improving, that's encouraging.