Valentino pics and weight concerns

[noblemacaw]

Lupe took some cute pics of Valentino with her phone earlier today while he was in his cage chatting to himself. Very cute how he cuddles his bonding blanket while he chats to himself. Valentino is now saying words in English and I caught a few Spanish ones too. It seems he is learning new words and phrases every day.

It looks like she opened the cage to take the pictures. If I did that he would of crawled to the perch by the door and jumped out on me. LOL. She got some cute pic of him today.

I have some concerns about his weight of late. I would love to have some input from other RFM owners that have had their birds since weaning. Valentino came to me at 402 grams about a week shy of 4 months old. The first few days I felt he was not eating well on his own so I picked up his hand feeding from just at night before bed to three times a day. This helped him feel more secure and keep him from losing any more weight. I was able to cut down his hand feedings quickly within I'd say three weeks to only the before bed night feeding. He would take 30 cc's average at each feeding. The night feeding he will take at the most 30 cc's.

It took about a month but I was finally able to stabilize his weight to about 430 grams and he fluctuated his weight between 430 to 435 grams for about two months. Valentino started moulting about three weeks ago starting with a very soft moult. Feather dropping from the sides of his face and top of head. Then he started dropping feathers from his body and that picked up to where he was looking kind of rough with the feather loss. I also noticed he was not satisfied with the amount of food I feed him. Normally the fresh mix is only fed once a day given to him at noon and pulled around 4pm. Lately for the past two weeks the food would be gone early afternoon and I would have to give him a second feeding (not as much fresh food) around our dinner time. He would eat with us his fresh mix then I would have him out with me until 9pm which I would put him back in cage until 10:30 when I put him to bed and give him his night feeding. Pellets are available in a different dish and I noticed the bowl is empty in the evening.

His weight has been creeping up. At first it was 440 grams then it was 450 grams. Last night he weighed in at 458 grams and tonight he was 464 grams. Some changes I have made are he does not get as many nuts as he did when he first came home. At the most he only gets two. I have picked up his exercise and fly him two to three times a day. I no longer get up to "go get him" but make him fly to me if he wants to be with me. Even if he looks at me and lifts his talon I raise my arm and command him to fly to me.

I am concerned with his weight gain being too much too fast. Valentino is the largest bird I ever had so I hope I worry for nothing. I also understand RFM can grow for three years. I examine his body mass and I can still feel his keel bone, he does not have the "cleavage" bird people talk about and his breast and muscle that connects the wing to the breast (don't know what that is called) is very well defined and developed. I just want to make sure Valentino's weight gain is normal and alright.

Here is a picture of Valentino's brothers Sid and Silas who were hatched a year before Valentino.

I appreciate any input from experienced RFM people...Thanks!!!

 

[Jtbirds]

If the keel is still felt without you you know fat birdie cleavage then I believe he is fine. He is a growing boy and he should be gaining weight and size. I think you are doing everything just fine and are a great parent to that little boy.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I agree, as long as his breast feels fine I wouldn't be worried

 

[noblemacaw]

Thank you both for your input. I don't really know why but Valentino seems so hungry all the time and gaining weight quickly. I don't know if it is a growth spurt or caused by the moulting. He is more crabby of late and less tolerant of waiting and is more demanding. He is also talking a LOT and learning new words so quickly now. We have to be careful what we say in front of him or even with in ear shot. He told me today I was weird. HE is the one that is weird!

Anyone macaw people out there that know the weight, age and sex of their RFM I would love to hear from you. If you had your RFM since baby did your parrot gain weight as quickly as Valentino when young??

 

[sodakat]

In the Harrisons Neonate Parrots www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/avmed/ampa/30.pdf, on page 14, the average weight listed for RFM at 49 days is 465-580 grams with an average adult weight at 490. On most species listed, the 49 day / 7 week weight is the heaviest weight for pre-fledging parrots. In other words, this is generally when babies weigh the most. Then they begin losing weight in preparation for flight.

There may be a chart that covers the age span after the first 7 weeks, but I don't know where it is.

 

[faeryphoebe1]

Sorry that I don't have any advice about the weight, but that pic is adorable! It's cool that he's learning English and Spanish. What a smart cookie, he is.

 

[Turquoise]

No idea about RFM standards, never owned one. I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed the pic Lupe took. They are so adorable! Valentino is a real cutie!!

 

[goalerjones]

Got this from avalon aviary website...

Red Fronts are generally around 24 inches in length and weigh between 450 and 550 grams. Their wingspans are generally 32 to 34 inches

Parrotlink.com says

Length: 50cm/20 inches
Weight: 450-650 grams

Also found this weight pdf, http://www.scottemcdonald.com/pdfs/Average Weights.pdf

 

[noblemacaw]

Everyone thanks for your replies. You have been very helpful. I am stunned with how quickly Valentino gained weight. I am going to email the breeder and ask her how much the parents weighs so I can have a range of what would be normal for Valentino. I have never had a parrot gain weight as quickly as Valentino and my fright of heart disease does not help.

 

[Jtbirds]

He is growing noble he is going to gain weight. As long is looking healthy and you can feel that keel your fine. You fly the bird everyday so you barely have a reason to worry about heart disease. you are a very caring parent and Valentino is great, so no worries.

 

[noblemacaw]

I lost both my Mini macaws to heart disease. Their loss is felt every day of my life and I will do what ever is necessary that Valentino will not suffer the same health problems. Heart disease is a huge problem in captive parrots and I do worry about it. I want to give the best life possible for Valentino so he remains disease free and healthy. I have spent a great deal of my time reeducating myself with diet, exercise and captive parrot needs to keep their hearts healthy along with the rest of their bodies.

 

[Jtbirds]

You are extremely right I am just saying you have nothing to be worried about at this point valentino is above healthy. I understand your lose, in the last year I have stayed up dieing with about 8 parrots.... Rescue isn't Always rewarding. I value health at the highest standard it can be,because I do truly get tired and worn from seeing what I have seen happen to this poor animals.

 

[noblemacaw]

JT I can only imagine your pain of watching 8 parrots die. That has got to be probably one of the hardest things you have done. As hard as it is to be there during their last moments I have always considered it a gift that I could be there to help comfort them while they are in the process of dying. I was giving this gift when my Eclectus Joaquin died at 1:40 AM. The ER doctor called me when he started to go downhill and I was lucky enough to be able to get to him in time and be with him when he passed. Joaquin use to be a therapy parrot and helped so many people feel better. He gave of himself so much when he was able so I was honered to be able to be with him so that he was not alone. He knew he was loved and I sang to him which he loved while he was dying.

With Diego my Illliger's macaw he suffered a stroke in the afternoon and I rushed him to the clinic. While my sister was driving us there he began to have difficulty breathing so in a desperate attempt to keep him alive I breathed for him. I was able to get to the clinic but he died while both the avian doctors worked on him. Diego's death was sudden so I took it pretty hard.

After working with Dr. Blair for over a year we finally were able to reverse Mihijo my Noble macaw's health problems. His numbers finallly all came back within normal ranges and we had finally nailed a diet to help him lower cholesterol and reverse liver problems (fatty). Mihijo was looking really good and we were very happy to see him become more healthy again. On a Sunday morning Lupe uncovered him and found him dead on the grate. This was very traumatic for her because she loved him very very much. They were buddies and he could do no wrong in her eyes (but he was a macaw) I had him since he was 2 and half months old and he would of been 18 this past Feb. I took his death really hard also and almost didn't take Valentino but we had been planing him for a year and half, he was paid off and we were waiting for him to wean when Mihijo died.

I was able to be with Joaquin when he died but Diego and Mihijo I was not. I know they knew they were loved but it sucks really bad that they are gone. Those birds were suppose to outlive me but I guess God had other plans and needed them more.

I can really respect what you do with the rescue and working with the parrots. I am happy to know people like you because it gives me hope that humanity is not all bad.

 

[Jtbirds]

Thank you very much noble. I didn't post that to try and make a scene I just wanted you to know you do amazing with valentino you do so much more then most people and your worryments about disease shouldn't be strong as he is so happy and healthy and everything you do is working to prevent it not further it.

 

[sodakat]

I too had a scare with one of mine and high cholesterol a number of years ago but removing all animal foods (including egg) from his diet took care of it.

Keeping Eclectus makes me more aware of how important it is to feed a lean diet. Eclectus are prone to fatty liver disease if fed improperly, especially the Solomon Island subspecies.

I wonder if you would share the diet items that likely contributed to the early death of your boys? As I understand it Macaws need some healthy fat in their diet which can be obtained from certain nuts.

What is your and your vet's opinion on what was the "bad" food?

 

[noblemacaw]

I believe that although Macaws need healthy fat in their diets Mini macaws do not. Dr. Blair and I adjusted Mihijo's diet by taking out the carbs (what ever carbs he needed were in his pellets) so I changed how I made the fresh mix by taking out brown rice, the 16 bean mix, and the noodles. I left in the mix veggies and squash/yams but cut that back as well in the mix. His pellets were changed to a low fat and I added milk thistle. I just dribbled it over the fresh food (Mihijo loves his fresh mix and would eat it first) One thing I added that I believe lowered the cholesterol was hot peppers. I use to buy and cut up 8 to 6 different kinds of peppers for him. Habanaro, jalapeno both red and green, yellow, what ever was available in the fresh produce section. You can't go to Wallmart and find the hot peppers variety like I could in other grocery stores. I shop fresh produce for parrots NOT in Wallmart. I also cut out ALL table foods (very hard on the parrot Mihijo begged and cried for a couple of months when we ate dinner and he was not given any) I stuck with the diet changes and his cholesterol went from 1248 to 364. It took about 6 months for this to take change. The milk thistle helped bring back his liver functions to normal. Although I do not give Valentino milk thistle I would if his liver function numbers went out of norm. I also do give Valentino the hot peppers but I do not feed him from the table as much as I did with my other birds. He will be offered veggies or yams and maybe two nuts while at the table with us I no longer would feed a parrot most of what I eat like cheese, most fruit, (If I give him any at all it is small amounts. Valentino does not seem to care for fruit very much. He likes banana and apple that seems about it. Never met a parrot that did not like oranges. How...weird) meats and of course the normal no no foods)

I feed Valentino the same diet the breeder feeds her birds. She is from Texas so I do believe she puts some hot peppers in her fresh mix as well. I don't give Valentino ALL the available hot peppers but he gets the sweet peppers (not bell no parrot I ever had would eat bell peppers. I think they bred the flavor out of them for the different colors) red and green jalapeno and maybe a few other types I can't remember names for. I don't give Valentino the Habanero because he won't eat them and you have to wear gloves when you chop them up. Mihijo LOVED his Habenaro and you had to be careful if you kissed him.

*whispers*...."It's the hot peppers...hooooottt.....peeeeepppppppeeeeeerrrrrsssss..."