URGENT help needed

[Tiel]

Dear Parrot community,
I'm currently caught up in a terrible and desperate situation: My regular avian vet (lives in Switzerland) has been infected with Covid19, therefore his entire praxis is currently completely unavailable. The next vet that is not even an avian vet, but rather someone that's experienced in treating birds is on winter break til Sunday.

My male cockatiel Haku, who's approximately 1 year old, poop is very concerning and I'm just completely lost. I can't tell how life threatening this may be and I'm afraid I'll wake up to my best friend of all time being dead. Please, anyone who's experienced in parrots who can give me guidance or a suggestion! I'd go to a regular local vet but those are usually completely ignorant and in some cases even completely unempathetic regarding birds (Quote: "Well quite frankly we've decided that it's too much" effort" to take a blood sample from a tiny bird, we'd advice to you contact another clinic".
Has anybodys bird experienced the same? What could these feces indicate? Any help is highly appreciated!!!

 

[wrench13]

If I were you, I would contact the nearest Avian Vet, and plead with them to have a video call to discuss the situation. I feel for you very much! In these precarious Covid-19, many vets are doing this, in lieu of actual office visits.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Hi hun how is your Haku in himself, does he appear unwell? What had you been feeding him before? What is his normal dietary routine?

 

[Tiel]

If I were you, I would contact the nearest Avian Vet, and plead with them to have a video call to discuss the situation. I feel for you very much! In these precarious Covid-19, many vets are doing this, in lieu of actual office visits.

Thank you so much for this suggestion, it was definitely worth a trial but it appears to be that all phones are currently unavailable. My last hope is that he'll reply to my Email with this exact idea. Again, thank you very much!

 

[Tiel]

Hi hun how is your Haku in himself, does he appear unwell? What had you been feeding him before? What is his normal dietary routine?

Haku is on a varied diet of Vegetables, Pellets (Tops or Harrison, depends on their mood) and mostly non-fatty seeds (meaning no Sunflower seeds in the seed mix). Aside from his lack of appetite he's been pretty lively and is currently preening himself. Despite being male he's never been a big singer so I can't really tell if he's more quiet than usual. Because of his lack of appetite in the last couple days I've switched to more caloric foods such as seeds because I was afraid that he was losing too much weight (he used to be a chubby fella 115 grams), he currently weighs 96-102.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Seeds offers less nutrition hun so could you possibly encourage to eat some fresh foods. They will sometimes be more obliging when encouraged. I hope you get your email answered hun.

 

[Laurasea]

The very yellow urine can indicate dehydration, or liver disease, or other, the other poop looks like a stress poop so harder to evaluate, but urine looks Cloudy, which can be indicates of bacterial infection.

Most vets are doing phone and video consultation. If you are well established with them, even closing due to COVID-19, they make arrangements...they still love and care fir their clients. Or you can look on web and find one and plead for video consultation. As you are likely going to need antibiotics do help your bird.

One of the more common infections is chlamydia, tho certainly I can't know what infection your bird has at all, as there are many and viruses as well.

Having fresh vegetables and leafy greens, provides critical nutrients, and helps prevent disease. Fir now yiu csn iffer egg food, or baby bird food as has needed nutrients if yiur bird isn't eating well . You can offer cooked puree vegetables that might tempt especially if offered warm. Cooked and mashed sweet potatoes..peppers with seeds inside too, are well liked by most sbd have vitamin A.

Supporting with warmth makes a big difference.
https://www.littlecrittersvet.com/sick-birds.pml

https://veteriankey.com/avian-nutrition/

https://veteriankey.com/common-avian-diseases/

 

[Tiel]

The very yellow urine can indicate dehydration, or liver disease, or other, the other poop looks like a stress poop so harder to evaluate, but urine looks Cloudy, which can be indicates of bacterial infection.

Most vets are doing phone and video consultation. If you are well established with them, even closing due to COVID-19, they make arrangements...they still love and care fir their clients. Or you can look on web and find one and plead for video consultation. As you are likely going to need antibiotics do help your bird.

One of the more common infections is chlamydia, tho certainly I can't know what infection your bird has at all, as there are many and viruses as well.

Having fresh vegetables and leafy greens, provides critical nutrients, and helps prevent disease. Fir now yiu csn iffer egg food, or baby bird food as has needed nutrients if yiur bird isn't eating well . You can offer cooked puree vegetables that might tempt especially if offered warm. Cooked and mashed sweet potatoes..peppers with seeds inside too, are well liked by most sbd have vitamin A.

Supporting with warmth makes a big difference.
https://www.littlecrittersvet.com/sick-birds.pml

https://veteriankey.com/avian-nutrition/

https://veteriankey.com/common-avian-diseases/

Thank you so much for your help. Your and wrench13* suggestion was proven to be possible. I finally managed to get a video call consultation from my main avain vet! This was definitely a big relief. I can't express how much I appreciate the help I received on this forum, I'm planning to be very active here after this wonderful experience <3

 

[Laurasea]

So happy, please do and share your knowledge and experience and support for others.

I simply could not manage with out this forum and all the great people, with ideas or just support.

Please document your journey with this sick bird. We will all learn from you, snd how this unfolds

 

[noodles123]

Yes--- welcome and so glad Wrench could help-- we all are a family (dysfunctional at times lol!!! but a family)-- I hope you stick around (welcome and sorry for all of your stress).

 

[Tiel]

Hey guys,
I'm not sure if all of you end up reading this update, but here we go:
I just had a phone call with my avian vet. A couple months ago Haku had his feces and his blood sampled because of his then chronic polyuria. Nothing was indicating an infection, the only problem seemed to be his liver. The vet decided to put Haku on a Liver supplement which ended up working pretty well. The problem is: Haku is not a big vegetable eater. So my vet and I (since we can't take samples bc of Covid) so we're thinking that he might've "relapsed" again whichs why we decided to put him on the supplement again. I was very worried about the possibility of him having an infection, which if that's the case I'll definitely use every resource in order to reach out to a vet or at least a lab to give me medication. I really hope this'll help, I have really severe anxiety over my pets health and if something went wrong I would inevitably blame myself for the rest of my life

 

[Laurasea]

Hey guys,
I'm not sure if all of you end up reading this update, but here we go:
I just had a phone call with my avian vet. A couple months ago Haku had his feces and his blood sampled because of his then chronic polyuria. Nothing was indicating an infection, the only problem seemed to be his liver. The vet decided to put Haku on a Liver supplement which ended up working pretty well. The problem is: Haku is not a big vegetable eater. So my vet and I (since we can't take samples bc of Covid) so we're thinking that he might've "relapsed" again whichs why we decided to put him on the supplement again. I was very worried about the possibility of him having an infection, which if that's the case I'll definitely use every resource in order to reach out to a vet or at least a lab to give me medication. I really hope this'll help, I have really severe anxiety over my pets health and if something went wrong I would inevitably blame myself for the rest of my life

Thank you for support me and my sick girl. wishing you recovery. And totally feel you on stress and worry.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

IT looks like your bird is eating less due to some liver affect. It could be chlamydia, fatty liver, lymphoma ( hopefully not ), lipidosis, etc.... Maybe you could try to get doxycycline and give it to him into the water like an emergency. Despite I have now fresh experiences, that it need not kill chlamydia in the cells... but can save the bird actually. Doxycycline is a slighty yellow powder and I think it is recommended to stir half tea spean into 100 or 150 ml of water. Or enrofloxacine. In human medicine I am now trying sumamed. If you touch your tiel s belly, you could maybe feel slightly enlarged liver.

 

[wrench13]

Not to contradict Ivan above here, I am sure he is offering what advice he has, but always, always always seek confirmation with your Certified Avian Vet (CAV) before introducing any vitamins, additives or antibiotic into water or food for your parrot. Avian medicine is still very much a black art and research and new treatments and medications are still being studied and introduced.

I contribute regularly to the Cornell College Vet program, specifically to the Avian studies and they keep me in the loop about what the funds are going towards. Always new stuff!

 

[Tiel]

Hey guys, thank you for your guys input!
I'm not sure if I informed you guys yet but I'm going to bring my vet a small sample of my birds droppings to the vet tommorow to see whether there's anything viral or bacterial going on, until then I'm going to take the liver supplement <3
I really hope I'm successful and there's no bigger issue than something that can easily be medically handled.

Your advice means everything to me, thank you for educating me!

 

[Tiel]

UPDATE:

I'm not sure how many how you guys are reading this currently, but I wanted to update regardless!

So I'm currently weighing Haku on a daily basis, I sent the poop sample on Friday so it's going to take a bit longer for the results to come in. I've treated Haku with the milk thistle supplement and chamomile tea because I heard it's supposed to help with stressed birds.

I don't know if this is controversial but I kind of disagree with my avian vet? I've been to him numerous times because of Haku's chronic polyuria and he keeps pressing on this milk thistle supplement, which I'm sure is helpful for a stressed liver, but my bird is 1 year old and I really doubt that he has liver disease. I've been encouraging a healthy diverse diet for most of his life.

A couple months ago I had Haku's blood drawn plus poop sampled in order to see what's going on in his system, when I asked my avian vet he replied with "there's something in the liver, could be anything--from an infection to a tumor, which is unlikely since he's so young".

But why wouldn't he know of an infection if he had Haku's blood AND poop tested? If there was anything symptomatic for an infected liver, why wouldn't he prescribe me an antibiotic?

I'm so lost and frustrated, I'm afraid his decision making is going to be at cost of my birds life. I weigh him everyday and thankfully he has enough appetite to not become underweight. Has anybody dealt with things like this? Am I being ignorant here?

 

[noodles123]

UPDATE:

I'm not sure how many how you guys are reading this currently, but I wanted to update regardless!

So I'm currently weighing Haku on a daily basis, I sent the poop sample on Friday so it's going to take a bit longer for the results to come in. I've treated Haku with the milk thistle supplement and chamomile tea because I heard it's supposed to help with stressed birds.

I don't know if this is controversial but I kind of disagree with my avian vet? I've been to him numerous times because of Haku's chronic polyuria and he keeps pressing on this milk thistle supplement, which I'm sure is helpful for a stressed liver, but my bird is 1 year old and I really doubt that he has liver disease. I've been encouraging a healthy diverse diet for most of his life.

A couple months ago I had Haku's blood drawn plus poop sampled in order to see what's going on in his system, when I asked my avian vet he replied with "there's something in the liver, could be anything--from an infection to a tumor, which is unlikely since he's so young".

But why wouldn't he know of an infection if he had Haku's blood AND poop tested? If there was anything symptomatic for an infected liver, why wouldn't he prescribe me an antibiotic?

I'm so lost and frustrated, I'm afraid his decision making is going to be at cost of my birds life. I weigh him everyday and thankfully he has enough appetite to not become underweight. Has anybody dealt with things like this? Am I being ignorant here?

So, this can get tricky. Some viral infections (many, actually) will not be able to be defined by a CBC (standard blood). While there can be red flags in a CBC, there won't always be, and even then it is almost impossible to know what virus without more specifics. Plus, a tumor or something won't necessarily show on a CBC in most cases, nor will certain illnesses (if benign or long-term, respectively). Additionally, something like metal poisoning would also be unlikely to show in a CBC, other than through elevated liver enzymes (possibly-- hard to say for sure, and definitely not always)


Chronic fungal infections can show normal white counts, even if a bird is sick (as the system sort of stops fighting so hard after a period of time)..not sure how that translates to other things.


Also, birds can be asymptomatic carriers of certain illnesses, so a bird can be healthy and then suddenly sick if for whatever reason they become actively symptomatic.


It's always good to question your vet though and even seek another opinion if you are in serious doubt!!!!

 

[Laurasea]

You can ask for a copy of the tests, and post here, ill help you look through them, or you can Google and check against normals.

If he has elevated liver values, that's only going to tell you something is up with liver. It can't tell you what caused it, viral, bacteria, chronic metal toxicity, tumor, genetic defects, or other toxins liver is filtering out.

Not all things turn up in culture, tho its an excellent tool. Or they have to be repeated because of intermittent shedding of organisms..

Blood work, is a tool.

Everything helps point to tge cause. And some vets are better at figuring out, or this us a tricky case. Really its hard to know.

 

[Tiel]

UPDATE:

I'm not sure how many how you guys are reading this currently, but I wanted to update regardless!

So I'm currently weighing Haku on a daily basis, I sent the poop sample on Friday so it's going to take a bit longer for the results to come in. I've treated Haku with the milk thistle supplement and chamomile tea because I heard it's supposed to help with stressed birds.

I don't know if this is controversial but I kind of disagree with my avian vet? I've been to him numerous times because of Haku's chronic polyuria and he keeps pressing on this milk thistle supplement, which I'm sure is helpful for a stressed liver, but my bird is 1 year old and I really doubt that he has liver disease. I've been encouraging a healthy diverse diet for most of his life.

A couple months ago I had Haku's blood drawn plus poop sampled in order to see what's going on in his system, when I asked my avian vet he replied with "there's something in the liver, could be anything--from an infection to a tumor, which is unlikely since he's so young".

But why wouldn't he know of an infection if he had Haku's blood AND poop tested? If there was anything symptomatic for an infected liver, why wouldn't he prescribe me an antibiotic?

I'm so lost and frustrated, I'm afraid his decision making is going to be at cost of my birds life. I weigh him everyday and thankfully he has enough appetite to not become underweight. Has anybody dealt with things like this? Am I being ignorant here?

So, this can get tricky. Some viral infections (many, actually) will not be able to be defined by a CBC (standard blood). While there can be red flags in a CBC, there won't always be, and even then it is almost impossible to know what virus without more specifics. Plus, a tumor or something won't show on a CBC in most cases (if long-term or benign). Additionally, something like metal poisoning would also be unlikely to show in a CBC, other than through elevated liver enzymes (possibly-- hard to say for sure, and definitely not always)


Chronic fungal infections can show normal white counts, even if a bird is sick (as the system sort of stops fighting so hard after a period of time)..not sure how that translates to other things.


Also, birds can be asymptomatic carriers of certain illnesses, so a bird can be healthy and then suddenly sick if for whatever reason they become actively symptomatic.

Totally agree with you there, but I feel like if you have a bird that's symptomatic for an infection, you'll at least try to treat it with a general antibiotic. This vet is very pricey and a phone consultation of a couple minutes will cost you 34 dollars. I might be biased but I've talked to a retired vet (online) and he seemed to disagree with my avian vet too. In his case prescribing a general antibiotic would've made the most sense.

 

[noodles123]

UPDATE:

I'm not sure how many how you guys are reading this currently, but I wanted to update regardless!

So I'm currently weighing Haku on a daily basis, I sent the poop sample on Friday so it's going to take a bit longer for the results to come in. I've treated Haku with the milk thistle supplement and chamomile tea because I heard it's supposed to help with stressed birds.

I don't know if this is controversial but I kind of disagree with my avian vet? I've been to him numerous times because of Haku's chronic polyuria and he keeps pressing on this milk thistle supplement, which I'm sure is helpful for a stressed liver, but my bird is 1 year old and I really doubt that he has liver disease. I've been encouraging a healthy diverse diet for most of his life.

A couple months ago I had Haku's blood drawn plus poop sampled in order to see what's going on in his system, when I asked my avian vet he replied with "there's something in the liver, could be anything--from an infection to a tumor, which is unlikely since he's so young".

But why wouldn't he know of an infection if he had Haku's blood AND poop tested? If there was anything symptomatic for an infected liver, why wouldn't he prescribe me an antibiotic?

I'm so lost and frustrated, I'm afraid his decision making is going to be at cost of my birds life. I weigh him everyday and thankfully he has enough appetite to not become underweight. Has anybody dealt with things like this? Am I being ignorant here?

So, this can get tricky. Some viral infections (many, actually) will not be able to be defined by a CBC (standard blood). While there can be red flags in a CBC, there won't always be, and even then it is almost impossible to know what virus without more specifics. Plus, a tumor or something won't show on a CBC in most cases (if long-term or benign). Additionally, something like metal poisoning would also be unlikely to show in a CBC, other than through elevated liver enzymes (possibly-- hard to say for sure, and definitely not always)


Chronic fungal infections can show normal white counts, even if a bird is sick (as the system sort of stops fighting so hard after a period of time)..not sure how that translates to other things.


Also, birds can be asymptomatic carriers of certain illnesses, so a bird can be healthy and then suddenly sick if for whatever reason they become actively symptomatic.

Totally agree with you there, but I feel like if you have a bird that's symptomatic for an infection, you'll at least try to treat it with a general antibiotic. This vet is very pricey and a phone consultation of a couple minutes will cost you 34 dollars. I might be biased but I've talked to a retired vet (online) and he seemed to disagree with my avian vet too. In his case prescribing a general antibiotic would've made the most sense.

If a bird is suspected of liver damage and may have a viral infection, many meds can make the liver worse and an antibiotic won't treat a virus. My vet won't give antibiotics without proof of a specific bacteria etc.


Did you make sure your milk thistle is for birds and isn't suspended in alcohol, by the way? Just wanted to double check.