Unprovoked Attack?

[LoveMyConlan]

My GCC is a biter, and 8 months old so hoping it's hormones... He goes from sweet and loving a scratch to tearing into my hand. I understand we all have bad days but dang! He's always been nippy but he goes from nipping to full on attack. Lunging, puffing up, and biting. Last night he full on ATTACKED me. He was doing great then suddenly as I reached and asked him to step up from my shoulder he attacked my hand and wouldn't stop. It took me a moment to get a hold of him and I had WELTS covering my hand after. I sat him down and got up to get an ice pack and he freaked out and tried to follow, climbing pant leg.

It's super discouraging. He freaks when I leave him alone but he continues to act like this. At this point his punishment is a snatch him during the attack and sit him on the floor and walk away. He's clipped and its safe where he is. He hates that.

I've heard a lot about pressure training though. What is it and how does it work? Best way to do it? Is this normal or should I consider rehoming him? I don't want to see him leave, he's my baby, but I wanted a companion not a show piece.

I'm just reaching a POINT where I'm tired of trying to pet him only to be bitten multiple times and not knowing when he's going to go off again. Vet checked, gets pellets with fruit and veg daily, no change in routine, and nothing specific that sets him off that I can tell.

 

[Kiwibird]

First, the attack you describe WAS provoked- you asked him to step up off your shoulder, and he didn't want to. It makes perfect sense to him. This sounds like a "dominance" issue to me. He is testing to see how far he can push and how much of this relationship he can control (i.e. when I bite the crap out of the humans hand, do I get to stay on the shoulder?). You MUST put yourself in the position of flock leader and unacceptable behavior must have a consistent consequence to discourage it. Oh, and ALL shoulder privileges are banned until he can PROVE he is worthy to be up there again. Next time, it might be your face, so he shouldn't be up there until you work through this issue. Shouldering a parrot is a privilege for the bird NOT it's rightful place.

Your method of discipline sounds fines long as you aren't handling him roughly. You should place him on the floor and walk away as calmly as possible. If anyone else is in the house at the time, you need to let them know he's down there so he doesn't get stomped (or find another safer spot for time outs if possible). I find time outs to be very effective for discouraging negative behavior. It isn't desirable for him to be there and he'd rather be doing something/being somewhere else. It will take consistency and time, but he will eventually make the connection: biting human=time out. Parrots want to be playing, hanging out and having fun, not in time out for being naughty birds. They WILL learn, if you are consistent and handle the situation right. I also find 'step up drills' following a time out to be a good way to remind my bird of good boy behavior, while also reinforcing trust. When he bites, I'll show it to him too. He *knows* he's done wrong when I point to it. Parrots are intelligent. Treat them like you would a misbehaving child and you'll have good success.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I had issues like you have with your conure when I first got my Skitty. He was a royal pain! I used vocal and hand commands as well as time-outs to set limits.

You have to let them know you're in charge. You are the 'alpha'. Otherwise, the dominance issue will proceed to territorial behavioral issues.

I have to fully echo what Kiwi said. If it weren't for asserting my own authority as well as using timeouts, I don't know what I would have done.

The best thing for a timeout is to either cover his cage OR put him in a smaller cage in a dark room for about 10 minutes. While he's in timeout, continue about your day. He'll want to be out with you and see what's going on and he'll come to associate being in a timeout with bad behavior and it will get much better.

 

[thekarens]

I think a dark room is cruel and 10 minutes is too long.

With Zoe she gets a couple minutes in the cage. Parrots are like toddlers and have very short attention spans. By the time 10 minutes goes by they will have forgotten why they are there in the first place.

 

[LoveMyConlan]

Thank you everyone! I don't think the cage thing would work. I have to bribe him from the cage in the first place. He'll sit on his bowl, as I move around the room, crouching and wings wiggling as if to say come get me. But when I open the door to ask him if he wants to come out here stays put.

He's super skitsy is party of the problem. He's terrified of everything so his 'free time out' is spent on my lap or on his standing perch. Toys scare him, so making things fun is hard. He had no self confidence yet learns tricks so fast he looks like a pro in minutes.

 

[Mimsy01]

Awe poor Conlan. Foofany was very scared of all things new when we first got her. She is still pretty suspicious of new things. Luckily her desire to hang with us has always been higher than her fears.

What helps Foo is seeing us touch all bad things, from a distance. New toys/beds/dishes ect, we handle a lot and put somewhere she can clearly see it, but not in the cage. In the beginning somethings took 6 months before they could be trusted, now it's usually just a few days. This includes "our" stuff as well. Though the "red" vacuum will never be trusted or liked. She will start screeching as soon as we touch that bad thing and it's been here for years now.

Have you put anything new in his cage or even near it recently? If he's fearful and like Foo, he knows you put it in there and may be telling you to take it out.

I think leaving him for a few minutes on the floor is probably fine as long as no one will accidentally step on him. Try not to react excited about his outbursts they seem to figure out that fast and may use it against you. If you are like me it takes me by surprise sometimes and I holler out an ouch. I have to remember not to do so and just calmly put her down (I use the cage, but understand that won't work for yours) and walk away.

Good luck to you and Conlan

 

[LoveMyConlan]

Nothing in cage. Just stuff on the table and his perch. I tried getting him to play on the floor with me at first but he wasn't too pleased so I used that as punishment.

 

[Kiwibird]

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Something like this for a time-out perch? Still on the floor, but keeps him in one spot so he won't get stomped. Putting birds, especially a little guy, on the floor is a safety risk. A perch on the floor would be much safer IMO and it would give him something to connect with punishment (if I get put on this perch, it means I'm in big trouble). I personally have an indeterminate time frame on a time out (I cover Kiwi's cage). He gets to be in time out until he calms down. Usually, this only takes a couple minutes, but sometimes he's in quite the foul mood and may even need a 10 or 15 minute time out. He doesn't get to come out again until he's in a better mood (and over time, he's learned this, so his time outs don't last as long or happen as frequently these days). To me, time outs are not just about discipline, but also about getting an upset/angry/aggressive/overstimulated bird to calm down.

 

[LoveMyConlan]

Amazon.com : The Percher Portable Training Bird Perch : Bird Play Stand : Pet Supplies

Something like this for a time-out perch? Still on the floor, but keeps him in one spot so he won't get stomped. Putting birds, especially a little guy, on the floor is a safety risk. A perch on the floor would be much safer IMO and it would give him something to connect with punishment (if I get put on this perch, it means I'm in big trouble). I personally have an indeterminate time frame on a time out (I cover Kiwi's cage). He gets to be in time out until he calms down. Usually, this only takes a couple minutes, but sometimes he's in quite the foul mood and may even need a 10 or 15 minute time out. He doesn't get to come out again until he's in a better mood (and over time, he's learned this, so his time outs don't last as long or happen as frequently these days). To me, time outs are not just about discipline, but also about getting an upset/angry/aggressive/overstimulated bird to calm down.

~~I LOVE THAT IDEA!! Just sit him down and ignore him. He gets nervous on the floor or when he's not within hopping distance to me, so how long should I make his time out? I don't know if he'd completely calm down down there.

 

[Kiwibird]

~~I LOVE THAT IDEA!! Just sit him down and ignore him. He gets nervous on the floor or when he's not within hopping distance to me, so how long should I make his time out? I don't know if he'd completely calm down down there.

A minute or 2 at minimum, so he understands it is a consequence, and as long as it takes after that for him to decide to play nice again. And remember, once he decides to be nice after a time out, reinforce the nice behavior with praise and treats.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Well, personally, we all have our own ways of coping with our fids. I just know that for me the timeouts worked. Skittles was impossible to cope with the first few years. My vet made the suggestion of time-outs and they worked. I honestly didn't 'count' to ten minutes each time. But I can't imagine it was ever any longer than that. I always let him back out as soon as he calmed down.

I do have one suggestion though - it's something that has worked for me. I try to 'associate' certain actions/sounds with certain behaviors. For example, Skittles will bite me or get nasty if I try to touch him when he's on my shoulder unless I make the 'tststs' sound (tapping my tongue on the roof of my mouth). Everytime I pet him or scratch him I make that noise. Now, when he hears that noise he dips his head down because he knows he's gonna get a petting or scratching which he always loves. So now, he doesn't bite when he hears that noise.

@thekarens I don't appreciate being told I'm being cruel. Disagree if you wish, you are entitled to that, but for me I stand by what I said. I followed the vets suggestion and he is so well mannered now I don't even have a time-out cage anymore. I just have to say to him 'No!' or 'stop it' and he obeys me. RARELY do I have a discipline problem with him.

 

[SilverSage]

I suggest, along the lines of what others have, that the time out spot not be the cage if he likes being in there. You don't want to damage his comfort in there, nor do you want to reward him for biting (I accidentally trained a bird to bite me when she wanted to go back to her cage...).

I also agree, no more shoulders until he can be trusted, that is earned. I would also say, if your bird is biting you when you try to pet him, stop petting him. Think about this; yes, your bird needs to learn not to bite you, but part of that is you learning not to do things that make your bird WANT to bite you. Watch his body language. Study it. All of us who live with birds must become students of body language. Usually, and I mean 99% of the time, a bird will give warning of some sort before he bites. )There are exceptions to this, but in my experience those exceptions are usually older birds who have learned to play jokes on people and do it on purpose for the reaction. I highly doubt your bird is doing this. )It sounds to me like a combination of a couple of things. First, you are doing something your bird doesn't like. Taking him off your shoulder, petting him in a way he doesn't like, etc. he most likely has asked you to stop via his body language (aka, politely) but when you did not, he did the only thing left in his power, and he bit you (aka rudely). Learn to read the body language and respect his wishes. This will lead to him feeling safer and more respected, and not like he MUST bite you.

Second there is probably a pair bond issue, and to some extent he may be punishing you for leaving him alone. Ever. This has to be worked through with discipline and treats and boundaries. He has to learn that if he treats you like that, he doesn't get to spend time with you (no abusive mates allowed in this house!).

Ok about the time out. Too long in time out is cruel, but that threshold is different for each bird. I am babysitting a Vizsla (bird dog) named Csilla. I also have a Gsd/Black Mouth Cur mix named Ranger. Ranger is a mix of two dominant, assertive, independent breeds and sometimes requires a firm hand or voice (by firm hand I do not mean hitting!). I am used to dealing with him in this way when he needs it, and he is a happy well adjusted dog. Csilla, on the other hand, becomes a cowering submissive mess when handled with even Ranger's normal command voice. Treating her like he is treated is cruel. I practically have to have the praise in my voice with the command for her to be ok lol. Ranger sees that kind of thing as a joke and ignores it. Two different dogs need two different approaches.

Birds also need individual approaches. With Mel when we dealt with her screaming I did cover the cage as time out. And I timed it! I started at one minute and then paid attention to how many minutes of time out it took for her to not scream again within 5 minutes of time out ending. I forget the exact time it took since it has been a while, but I think it was around 7 minutes. The key is not the number, the key is to administer the lightest penalty possible for EFFECTIVE action. If it is too short to work, then there is no point, too long and you enter into unnecessary social depravation. I suggest starting short and lengthening, but keep and actual record and time the sessions, don't just guess if you are trying to come up with a number, because guessing is not accurate.

 

[SilverSage]

Also, toys should continue to be introduced. If he is scared that is sad, get him the most boring wooden toy imagine able, probably budgie sized, leave it within eye site, move it closer every few days, and eventually into his cage as far away from the food as possible. Part of the problem is likely boredom. The sooner he can have other things to think about the better! It will really help his attitude.

I also suggest a word or phrase at the beginning of each time out, to be used the second he bites you, and repeated until he is in time out. Such as "no bite, no bite, no bite." Then later on after he understands that he is not allowed to bite you, if he does, instead of having to put him in time out sometimes you can stop the behavior by saying "no bite" instead, and he will understand that if he does that again, he will be going into time out.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I totally agree that this is an individual thing. There is no 'universal' method to dealing with parrots. Even within the same species, each bird is different.

I do agree about the cage thing. I used a 'time-out' cage for that very reason. I wanted him to feel 'safe' in his regular cage. So I bought a smaller one. Skittles used to have three different cages. His regular one, his travel cage and his time-out cage. The travel one is the smallest, his regular one is the largest. His time-out cage was in the middle. Like I said before, I know longer have the time-out cage. He has a travel cage that I use to take him for walks or to the vet and he 'knows' that when he goes into that cage he is going on a 'trip' and goes in voluntarily for the most part.

I do think it is VERY important to let them out of the time-out as soon as they stop misbehaving. That way they associate being good with being out and having fun.

I have heard differing stories on shouldering. Some say it's great for bonding and some say it encourages domination and territorial issues. Personally, I think it depends on the individual situation. If you let your parrot have their way all the time with no set limits they will own you and you will have no authority in their eyes.

I think everything in moderation is the best approach in most cases.

The 'no-bite' action works wonders for me. When Skitty misbehaves I say 'no bite' or 'stop it' or 'no you can't have that'. The prolonged misbehaviors of his past are non-existent now. I also find that words of praise and encouragement are so important. I will sporadically give Skitty words of praise throughout the day just for the sake of doing it. I know he loves to hear those words.

 

[SilverSage]

The idea that shouldering promotes dominance has been largely disproved now, as we understand more of how birds think. We now understand that height= safety and comfort more than any sort of "boss" position, but that still leaves a lot of birds not wanting to come down from high places and biting to get their way. In my house, you can't be on my shoulder if I don't trust you. I like my eyes and nose just where they are, thank you very much! But in birds who understand that biting is not allowed I have no problems. As far as bonding goes, if it helps it is only because it allows closeness and for the bird to spend more time with the person. I would say it is. It enough of a bonding experience for it to be worth getting bitten over, especially because I believe every time you let your bird bite you and get away with it, you are training them to bite you (with few exceptions), and no bonding experience is worth me teaching my bird to bite. Right now most of my birds are allowed on shoulders, but I would not trust Phoenix or Tucson, my new Eckies up there, because I know they would bite me without a second thought.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I've never believed the whole 'dominance' theory of shoulders anyways. I've heard a number of theories on various things regarding parrots and their care that I think are complete bunk, this being one of them.

It only makes sense that 'height' equals safety for a parrot. My Skitty has a ceiling toy that he loves. It's WAY up high where I can't reach him but he still comes to me when I call him, 90% of the time. When he doesn't, I just walk out of the room and he follows me.

I find that routine and consistency are vital towards proper parroting. They can't communicate in 'human words' their feelings or needs so it is up to us to try to understand them. I find it fascinating

I do want to touch again on my earlier comment. I didn't mean to sound defensive, it's just that anyone associating how I care for Skittles with the word 'cruel' hits a major nerve for me. I couldn't love Skitty more if he were my own son. He could not be treated any better.

But I live in an apartment building. I don't have the luxury of being able to let him go on for hours un-disciplined. I hated having to put him in time-outs, but when nothing else worked I really had no other choice. I'd get calls from neighbors who were po'd. People can call it cruel if they wish, I don't really care. But I don't tell people who clip their birds wings that they are cruel so people shouldn't chide me for what I used to have to do.

I came back to this forum in hopes of finding 'healing' and it's turning out to be the exact opposite.

 

[SilverSage]

I hope you will be able to stay and hang out with us most of us have had our feelings hurt here on occasion, and I know I personally have offended people more than once, always by accident or speaking too quickly. I have even had to be reprimanded by a moderator for my tone on one occasion. I am not proud of that, bu thinking back I know I never meant to come across as strongly as I did, and/or a previous personally experience with abuse or neglect may have been coloring my thinking about a certain issue. I hope that even if one member thinks that one thing that you used to do doesn't sit well with them, I hope that you will stay and be part of our community the more helpful people here, the better

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Well, like I said - that just hit a nerve. For those who read the 'my story' post I wrote a few days ago, might understand why.

I don't think I've ever been on a forum where misunderstandings have not happened. Even my best friend and I, who have known each other for 18 years still misunderstand each others tone sometimes in emails.

I believe we all have 'good intentions', but sometimes it is so hard to understand the intent of online posting. It really depends on the reader, people may interpret the same thing completely differently.

Anyways, thank you for your comments.

 

[Kyoto]

I got really really discouraged today because of my little baby too. Seems like we've had a set-back. She suddenly hates my husband again and is being really aggressive towards him to the point that he can't handle her at all, or even be in the same room. She lunges and flies right at his face I totally understand your frustration.

She is definitely nippy with me but not aggressive (more playful and when it is a nasty one it's usually because I did something she didn't like).

I do as stated above, and make her sit on the floor, as she has her own room and since it's just her and I in there it isn't as much of a worry if I watch where I step. Generally I sit at my computer in there though. Only problem is she is flighted and will fly back up to me after a while.

I'm feeling discouraged because I have a cage coming for the living room - for when we are home and able to keep an eye on the cats - so that when we are downstairs eating dinner she can have an extra hour out with us rather than me having to leave her upstairs to go cook. However, I'm scared that maybe I won't even be able to get her to go in this cage as the moment she sees my husband she goes after him

Hang in there! Hopefully things will get better for both of us.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

Skittles does exactly the same thing whenever he's around my best friend. He is on 'high alert' around anyone but me, but when it comes to my best friend, he does NOT like her one bit and flies at her at random.

He has bitten her REALLY bad and she no doubt has some 'fear' of him now and I sense that he picks up on it. But I also think he senses how close I am to my friend and perhaps sees her as a 'threat' and is jealous. I don't know. Maybe that's the case with your husband. It would be sooooo much easier if they could just tell us 'hey, stay away from so and so, you belong to me!'.

I just try my best not to 'encourage' that behavior. But I don't know WHY he does it, so it's hard to address.

Another thing is, Skitty is 'free-flighted'. He is literally only in his cage when he is sleeping or when I go out to run errands or appts. I do that no more than two times a week and I've never been gone for more than 3 hrs.

He sees my 'apartment' as his cage, his territory. I have little places all over the apartment for him to 'rest'. He sits on the faucet when I do dishes. He sits on the shower rail when I take a shower or use the restroom. The latter gets 'awkward' because whenever he hears the sound of liquid pouring he wags his tongue. He has a rest spot on my desk for when I am using the PC. His playstand is by my living room chair where he sits while I watch tv. He also has a place in the kitchen by the wall where he sits and 'watches' me cook. I have to keep an extra close eye on him when I am making pasta. It's like his 'chocolate'.