Understanding, really understanding

[Tsali]

I am a newbie to the forum and to birds. I have had a wide variety of critters sharing my life through my many years including dogs, cats, koi, horses, chickens, goats, a couple of snakes and iguanas. I raised an orphan bunny that came to me with eyes sealed shut and naked. I even raised an orphan raccoon, so I've shared my life and home with a lot of different personalities. For the most part I could "figure" them out.

Tsali is my first and only parrot. He has been part of my life for about 1 1/2 years - except for his breeder we are the only family he has ever had. I just can't quite seem to get into his head and understand where he is coming from. I researched Greys for a couple of years before committing to adding one to our home. Another year of research on breeders and waiting for Tsali. I felt like at least I had a basic understanding about what makes them tick. Boy was I ever wrong. I honestly feel like he gets a good parrot diet filled with lots of fresh vege-fruit chop, pellets and some nuts, spices and seeds thrown in.

I want to understand Tsali, the magnificent creature. I want to know the why of what he does. I posted here rather than in the Grey forum 'cause I figured input from all bird parents would help.

Questions I want to understand include --

When Tsali is talking - does he want two way conversation or is he just talking

What exactly is a parrot cuddle that I have read so much about?

Tsali seems to like his cage it is gianormous and filled with lots of foraging toys and food stations to keep him busy. But most of the time he prefers to be on my shoulder preening my hair. Should I feel guilty when I need a break and put him in his cage?

I have this great NEED to know. I want to understand so I can be the best possible parrot parent.

 

[LeaKP]

Greys are amazing. It seems they love to chatter to themselves and also engage with us. They are capable of speaking in context. Tsali is getting old enough that now you should watch out for times when he/she is speaking in context. It's awesome!

The parrot cuddle varies. Macaws and cockatoos will cuddle like puppies and babies! My Nigel cuddles this way now and although I see his independence coming along he seems to love the attention too. One of my favorite things he does is step onto the back of the chair I'm on and lay his head on my shoulder for scritches.

No, don't feel badly for teaching Tsali to enjoy the cage. It's important they learn to be alone so they grow into stable birds. Try leaving music on or the tv for sound.

Hope that helps. I'm no expert like the others here, I'm sure there will be plenty of great advice come along!

 

[BeatriceC]

I think of it a lot like understanding toddlers who can't really use words to tell you what they like. You just have to experiment and look for cues to tell you what your individual bird likes. When I first met the man who would become MrC, and then moved in with him, I, like you, had tons of experience with critters of all types except birds. There was a learning curve as I observed Goofy and Cookie and figured out what their body language was trying to tell me. It took some time, but I let the birds teach me (and read everything I could to learn faster), and eventually, much to everybody's surprise, Goofy actually warmed up to me. Until I can around the only person who could get close to him was MrC, and while I'm still very much the non-favorite human, Goofy likes me and demands his bed time scritches every night and let's me play with him throughout the day.

 

[Tsali]

Greys are amazing. It seems they love to chatter to themselves and also engage with us. They are capable of speaking in context. Tsali is getting old enough that now you should watch out for times when he/she is speaking in context. It's awesome!

The parrot cuddle varies. Macaws and cockatoos will cuddle like puppies and babies! My Nigel cuddles this way now and although I see his independence coming along he seems to love the attention too. One of my favorite things he does is step onto the back of the chair I'm on and lay his head on my shoulder for scritches.

No, don't feel badly for teaching Tsali to enjoy the cage. It's important they learn to be alone so they grow into stable birds. Try leaving music on or the tv for sound.

Hope that helps. I'm no expert like the others here, I'm sure there will be plenty of great advice come along!

Thank you so very much for replying. I am truly troubled because just don't understand enough

We do have meaningful conversations. He knows his phone number and will repeat it when I ask, "Tsali what is your number" -- sometimes he asks me the same question -- he doesn't have a name for me yet in his vocabulary -- but when he says "Tsali, what's your number?" and goes silent, I know he is waiting for me to respond. After I say our phone number he says YEAH which is his clicker bridge.

So would you consider him preening my hair endlessly a form of Grey cuddling? Oh I hope so.

Thank you for the music suggestion. We did buy him a table so that he can watch movies and listen to music -- we are waiting for the bracket to attach it to the wall behind his cage and out of reach.

 

[LeaKP]

Oh yes, preening the hair is definitely African Grey cuddles! Nigel does the same.

 

[GraciesMom]

Sounds like y'all have a great relationship, it's wonderful that you want to understand Tsali! I wouldn't feel guilty about cage/independent time I think it's an important part of them being confident & independent so even tho they may prefer to be with you they are content and able to entertain themselves when they can't be.

Gracie cuddles - when she wants to which is usually before bedtime - right when she knows I'm getting ready to settle her in for the night it's the same ritual "ahh c'mon" and she'll persistently nudge my hand for head scritches after a few minutes she climbs up my chest and tries to snuggle into my neck and go night night there lol

As far as if/when they want to chatter alone or together. If she's talking, singing etc. and I join in she'll either get excited and start going back and forth or she'll clam up (sometimes she'll tell me to be quiet) so it's fairly easy to follow her body language & verbal commands lol If she's doing something & doesn't want my company/involvement she'll either move away or turn her back or tell me to "stop it"

She's gets better and better at 2 way communication/conversation everyday. I just reinforce what it is she's asking for/wanting with the correct term(s) so she learns to distinguish or ask more specifically. If she says "want that" meaning my spoon i'll repeat back "You want the spoon?" and she'll cluck or say yes .. If she clucks i'll ask "is that a yes?" etc.

They are really intelligent & very intuitive as I'm sure you've discovered. I'm sick today- cough, sore throat - nasty cold. Gracie always copies me whenever I sneeze, cough or clear my throat - when she does I always say "aww poor parrot are you ok? poor gracie you got a cold?" or some variation of that.
Today she completely skipped her morning loud chatter section & when I cough or sneeze instead of copying me she's saying "you ok?" "aww poor parrot" "sick baby/ sick birdie" "need some medicine?" "good water" there have been quite a few different sentiments like that, I also noticed she is saying them in her lowest talking voice. She seems completely aware that I'm sick she's very quiet and watchful today.

I do agree tho - if only we knew exactly what they are thinking

 

[GaleriaGila]

I second everything above. What a wonderful gathering of good ideas and suggestions.

May I add a little something? After 32 years, I am utterly shocked by something the Rickedybird says or does. Sometimes it's a good shock, sometimes not. What I'm saying is... it's okay not to understand... do you're best and feel proud of how much you care and how hard you try. THAT's a beautiful thing.

 

[Tsali]

Oh WOWsie! What an incredible relationship you have with Gracie! It sounds like you have an amazing amount of real verbal two way communication. And I thought it was cool when Tsali asked me my number (phone number). That was just fluff compared to what you two have and continue to accomplish.

Do you mind me asking how old she is and how long you have had her.

I hope I don't bug you, but be forewarned, you now my primary "goto" person for trying to understand the Grey mindset.

 

[Tsali]

I second everything above. What a wonderful gathering of good ideas and suggestions.

May I add a little something? After 32 years, I am utterly shocked by something the Rickedybird says or does. Sometimes it's a good shock, sometimes not. What I'm saying is... it's okay not to understand... do you're best and feel proud of how much you care and how hard you try. THAT's a beautiful thing.

Thank you - you are right, it's all about our journey together.I guess it's because I am such a new parrot mommy and because I am very anal about the care and well-being of my critters. I want the best for Tsali and it would break my heart if I found out I was unintentionally neglecting some of his needs.

 

[GraciesMom]

Really great point. I love when Gracie just surprises me with something I didn't know she could do or say. Like today she's showing a very considerate side.

Last night she kept surprising me -- I'd leave her on her cage hanging out, come back in the room & she'd be on her tree, leave the room again & back on the cage. Gracie doesn't usually fly without a lot of pre-flight & making sure I'm right there. she doesn't get down can walk the floor at home only at work. Then I finally busted her - she was using the Curtain Express lol she'd grab onto my curtains and use them to swing over to the cage & back again.

Well good thing its really hot here - now I have ventilated curtains lol

 

[GraciesMom]

Oh WOWsie! What an incredible relationship you have with Gracie! It sounds like you have an amazing amount of real verbal two way communication. And I thought it was cool when Tsali asked me my number (phone number). That was just fluff compared to what you two have and continue to accomplish.

Do you mind me asking how old she is and how long you have had her.

I hope I don't bug you, but be forewarned, you now my primary "goto" person for trying to understand the Grey mindset.

I don't think that is fluff at all! I think that is about the most impressive, smartest thing I've ever heard of teaching! Very smart. It is extremely impressive to me. Gracie communicates with me but hardly ever on command like that.

I'm sure we sound way more accomplished then we are - I don't push or really even make her respond I more or less just talk to her & it happens, or if not verbally I've learned her body language & vocal sounds well. Gracie only communicates when she wants to - she's extremely stubborn. If I ask her what sound a dog makes (she knows the answer & does the sound all the time) she will not do it on command. Everything is on her terms & is dictated by what she'll gain by it (will she be moved to a different spot, get out of her cage, get a cuddle, go outside or for a ride etc.).

If she wants out of her cage & I'm not approaching her cage she will say "C'mon let me out of here" "good morning" "cmere" "c'mere pretty girl" then she'll whistle for me like a dog. If I approach her cage & ask "do you wanna come out" or say "good morning Gracie" - she isn't likely to respond with anything but "Cmon or cmere & a shrill whistle" if I take too long lol
If she wants to go outside she'll ask me " wanna go outside now?" .. when she wants to go to work she'll ask "can we go to work?" but never on cue.

She won't repeat something just cuz I tell her or ask her too.

She also will not say Thank you. Lol nope not gonna do it. She looks at me like - are you kidding me? I got what I wanted lady.

She is super smart - smart enough I believe to realize she doesn't need or want to talk unless it gets her what she wants or she is in the mood to chat with me. If i'm in the mood to chat & she isn't - forget about it. A lot of times instead of enunciating the words she "sing songs" them - same syllables but it's not pronouncing them - I can usually tell them all apart (hey baby, what are you doing?, do you wanna go out? Etc.) it's hard to explain. If she isn't interested she simply won't answer. If she asks me something & I miss it or don't answer she will do a very shrill whistle @ me - like a hawks piercing screech (this is also what she does whenever I leave) it's her contact call & a way to tell me "hey you!"
If I tell her to wait a minute - she will (if I'm on the phone etc.) I haven't found a need to ignore these screeches - quite the opposite if I acknowledge her - she will wait. If I say "shh too loud" she will immediately stop and change to a different sound, word or whistle.

I've had her for 4 1/2 months, she's between 15-20 & has a bad history with a lot of health issues. She wasn't very handle able nor did she talk before we got her. It wasn't too difficult to gain her trust & approach her & get her to step up - took only a few days, I ALWAYS told her exactly what I was doing. I would make a clicking/clucking type of sound whenever I approached, used very soothing commands. Unless necessary I don't force anything on her, as her confidence grew she started communicating with me more and more - I didn't even know she could verbally up until then I had been following her body language.

I have taught her simple commands like step up, step down, turn around, c'mere, fly to me, give me your foot, relax your wing, gimmie a kiss, head down, etc.

I think I've gotten to know Gracie really well & honestly I don't think she'll ever be the type of parrot that will repeat on cue although if she is having fun playing "follow the leader" I make a sound, she copies, she makes a sound I copy that's apparently very acceptable. For the record - I always lose I think she sets people up by making a few easy sounds then she always goes for harder whistles that are impossible for me to make lol

Gracie loves to stretch if I do and expects me to stretch when she does. She calls my arms wings "gimmie your wing" when she wants to climb up my arm - I believe this came from teaching her to let me handle her wings for vet exams. She'll also tell me "Good parrot" when I do what i'm told lol

Sorry so long.. I can talk about Gracie all day. She amazes me all the time.. but the best advice I can give is to just watch them & take note of the body language, eye pinning, noises etc. chances are there is a ton of non-verbal (words) communication going on especially with their sounds. I use to audio record her constantly so the family could hear what she'd say/ noises she'd make etc. since she was really mute around anyone but me. If I played these back around her - she would the same sounds/whistles before they played on the recording - that's when I realized either she had a fabulous memory or those sounds/whistles mean the something to her possibility the same thing every time she uses them.

I do tell her "I don't know what you want" "I don't know whats wrong" etc. I basically talk to her & treat her like I did my kids when they were young & I didn't know what the hell they were talking about lol
I figure if she does understand me more than I understand her at least I've given her an explanation.

I want the best for Tsali and it would break my heart if I found out I was unintentionally neglecting some of his needs.

I don't think that's gonna happen - it sounds like you are very aware of him & as long as you are attentive & interact with him in ways he responds positively to he'll be a happy parrot. I also think they are smart enough to take pity on us mere humans and our limited understanding & limited vocal range lol

 

[Scott]

I don't believe we can ever completely understand the consciousness of a parrot, but Greys are among the most intelligent. Know that Tsali wonders the same of you in a way that will lead to some interesting behaviors and interactions. Tsali has been with you long enough to feel safe and will be testing boundaries for some time.

In my experience nothing is as cuddly as a cockatoo. That means intensive cuddling in your cradled hands, preening, rolling on the back and side, and a wonderful feeling of connection. Most Greys are different, and some will limit to stroking of feathers as their limit of touch. That leaves the Shoulder! The Shoulder is also your greatest vulnerability, and is a perch to be earned. As long as you are comfortable and trust, it is a wonderful feeling of closeness.

Providing a large and comfortable cage filled with toys is crucial. It is challenging to reinforce that zone as a welcoming refuge as an adjunct to human companionship

 

[Tsali]

I don't believe we can ever completely understand the consciousness of a parrot, but Greys are among the most intelligent. Know that Tsali wonders the same of you in a way that will lead to some interesting behaviors and interactions. Tsali has been with you long enough to feel safe and will be testing boundaries for some time.

In my experience nothing is as cuddly as a cockatoo. That means intensive cuddling in your cradled hands, preening, rolling on the back and side, and a wonderful feeling of connection. Most Greys are different, and some will limit to stroking of feathers as their limit of touch. That leaves the Shoulder! The Shoulder is also your greatest vulnerability, and is a perch to be earned. As long as you are comfortable and trust, it is a wonderful feeling of closeness.

Providing a large and comfortable cage filled with toys is crucial. It is challenging to reinforce that zone as a welcoming refuge as an adjunct to human companionship

Scott, thank you so very much for taking the time to reply. Every tidbit of info is sincerely appreciated. I have noticed lately that Tsali is becoming more assertive (but not aggressive) and certain things I cannot do with him on my shoulder.

 

[Tsali]

Graciesmom - I am amazed with what you have accomplished with Gracie in just 4 1/2 months! Incredible. And I thank you for your details about your relationship with Gracie -- it helps me to better understand what a parrot/human relationship is all about. What a vocabulary she has and the fact that she uses her words in context is amazing!

I have never had a bird before, so most of what I have done and am doing had been learned from reading on line experiences with people who own parrots and from commercially prepared training tapes. They have all helped convert this dog owner's mind to better communicate with Tsali.

I was a stay at home mom to my skin kids and find myself treating, interacting with and talking to Tsali like I did with my children when they were wee little ones. No baby talking here - using every moment as a teaching/learning opportunity.

Funny thing, he won't name foods - I know he knows the names of his absolute favorite (and forbidden) treat - cheese. He comes flying when he hears the refrigerator open because that is where cheese lives. But he doesn't ask for food by name. After teaching him his email address, this will be my next project - I want Tsali to tell me what he wants to eat.

Although he talks, asks me questions and waits for answers, he only talks when he wants to talk. When he's being chatty he will usually engage in two-way communication, but not always.

The not always part is what I don't understand. Why do they talk and sing to themselves -- I so want to get into his mind and read his thoughts.

 

[Jayyj]

I would highly recommend Irene Pepperberg's book Alex And Me for an example of how sophisticated a grasp of language a CAG is capable of. Quite incredible. I've just been reading a book on corvid behaviour and intelligence and the Author brought up Alex as a high water mark for a bird's ability to form words and used them in context.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I second that, Jayyj... that's a great book... Pepperberg's.
What's the title of the corvid book, please?

 

[DRB]

I am a newbie to the forum and to birds. I have had a wide variety of critters sharing my life through my many years including dogs, cats, koi, horses, chickens, goats, a couple of snakes and iguanas. I raised an orphan bunny that came to me with eyes sealed shut and naked. I even raised an orphan raccoon, so I've shared my life and home with a lot of different personalities. For the most part I could "figure" them out.

Tsali is my first and only parrot. He has been part of my life for about 1 1/2 years - except for his breeder we are the only family he has ever had. I just can't quite seem to get into his head and understand where he is coming from. I researched Greys for a couple of years before committing to adding one to our home. Another year of research on breeders and waiting for Tsali. I felt like at least I had a basic understanding about what makes them tick. Boy was I ever wrong. I honestly feel like he gets a good parrot diet filled with lots of fresh vege-fruit chop, pellets and some nuts, spices and seeds thrown in.

I want to understand Tsali, the magnificent creature. I want to know the why of what he does. I posted here rather than in the Grey forum 'cause I figured input from all bird parents would help.

Questions I want to understand include --

When Tsali is talking - does he want two way conversation or is he just talking

What exactly is a parrot cuddle that I have read so much about?

Tsali seems to like his cage it is gianormous and filled with lots of foraging toys and food stations to keep him busy. But most of the time he prefers to be on my shoulder preening my hair. Should I feel guilty when I need a break and put him in his cage?

I have this great NEED to know. I want to understand so I can be the best possible parrot parent.

Good post, I feel the same need as a rookie parrot owner. How old is your CAG?

The whole shoulder thing is a debate, I've given up on restricting Perjo from my shoulder(s) I'm just very aware and ready when she is there, and have trained her to vocalize in a softer volume when on my shoulder. But she loves being on the shulders so I will not take that away from her. I'll let her decide as she ages if she wants shoulder time or not. IMO it is a significant part of why we've bonded so strongly at her young age.

IMO the split time from cage to outside of cage is good, it helps maintain boundaries and who is really in charge (even though our CAGS are in charge in their eyes).

 

[Tsali]

I would highly recommend Irene Pepperberg's book Alex And Me for an example of how sophisticated a grasp of language a CAG is capable of. Quite incredible. I've just been reading a book on corvid behaviour and intelligence and the Author brought up Alex as a high water mark for a bird's ability to form words and used them in context.

I second that, Jayyj... that's a great book... Pepperberg's.
What's the title of the corvid book, please?

Thank you for the suggesttion. Although I haven't read Alex and Me, I did read one of Pepperburg's papers that went into depth about the training methods. I was quite intrigued about the techniques she used and the scientific approach to Alex's training. But when I saw a short video of Alex, it broke my heart. To my untrained eye, what I saw was a pitifully sad plucked bird, in a "lab setting". What bothered me most about Alex was that he was such an intelligent being, being trained day in and day out for thirty years in a strick controlled environment. I know that he had a lot of mental stimulation and interaction with a lot of her students, but how much time did he have out of the cage having fun on a play stand, or tearing up stuff, or "helping" do chores?

After seeing the video of Alex, I just couldn't make myself read Alex and Me. As I type I have tears in my eyes thinking how sad Tsali would be without the freedom to fly around and kinda sorta be a "real" bird. I know I am being close minded. I feel certain that Pepperburg truly loved Alex, but I just can't unsee the image of a sad looking plucked bird sitting on a perch in a small cage.

 

[Scott]

Something I've noticed specifically with my Greys.... When speaking to them with teaching intent, I've noticed a certain look of fixation or study in their eyes. Mostly works with verbiage and often associated with a **** to the head one way or another. I call this the "recording mode." They may not always respond to show learning, but I believe it is intent or just "filed away."

 

[Tsali]

Something I've noticed specifically with my Greys.... When speaking to them with teaching intent, I've noticed a certain look of fixation or study in their eyes. Mostly works with verbiage and often associated with a **** to the head one way or another. I call this the "recording mode." They may not always respond to show learning, but I believe it is intent or just "filed away."

I KNOW that look. Often times it is paired with pinning. I am not generally an early riser, I have pain issues which makes nighttime sleep almost impossible. Anyway, hubby says that early in the morning he will often repeat words or phrases that we have been working on. Usually in a quiet voice Tsali will say his name and repeat what I'be been trying to teach him. So sadly, I usually miss out on the first repeat.