Trick Training - Yea or Nay? (All parrot species welcome!)

[JerseyWendy]

Tab has even taught Fargo to do a Somersault! (fingers crossed this will work)


Fargo's Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fargo-the-Macaw/466978630014342[/

 

[Birdman666]

It depends on the bird and the bird's temperment. If the bird loves doing it, loves learning, and loves showing off, then it's a good thing. For the birds, this is play time, and learning time, and one on one attention, and treats IF YOU DO IT RIGHT.

If not, then forcing this on them could stress them.

The opposite is also true. If he gets A LOT of attention doing tricks, and then that attention suddenly stops, he could end up acting up or having depression issues. Attention oriented birds that don't get the level of attention they are used to, tend to have problems.

It's like handling a bird now, the way you will handle them later. If you suddenly spend several hours a day doing tricks, and being the center of attention, dropping it later on becomes problematic... So, keep the lessons short, and fun.

So if you start this one, you kind of have to keep it up a little bit. And I wouldn't go overboard with it.

 

[labell]

I agree that it needs to be FUN for the bird. We all know of Alex and while the research and findings that came out of the work done with this amazing bird were instrumental in understanding the complexity of parrot intelligence. He was treated as a lab rat plain and simple. His home was the lab and if you watch the videos many times he would say No, or that he wanted to go back to his cage and this was not allowed. His trainers including Irene didn't take into account imo that there were days that he didn't feel like preforming.

I think if training and tricks and props are used in a fun way to keep your parrot from boredom and enrich their lives that's wonderful if it's used to promote you on YouTube or in front of tons of people then I would question that.

 

[Birdman666]

A friend of mine had a CAG that loved this stuff... And the minute you walked in the door he would waddle over to his toy box and get his roller skates out, and skate around the living room...

And you better pay attention, cuz if you don't, he'll waddle over to you and pinch your toe. Like, hey, buddy, that's rude! I'm doing something amazing over here...

Alex plucked! As much as Irene may claim the cause was this or that, I believe he was stressed. As I recall, he began plucking when she stopped being in the lab every day, and did the speaking, seminars, and other fund raisers. So, it was a bonding thing with her, I think. And that happens with a CAG. Of course, that bird also ordered his people around. So he still had a healthy CAG attitude.

In some ways, it's like the brilliant child that is pushed to perform. They can stress out too.

 

[Birdman666]

I've also used trick training to reign in bad behaviors in problem birds.

1. It puts you in the role of parent bird/teacher, which changes the dynamic right there when they have to take their cues from you;

2. It is a discipline. It forces them to think and act a certain way.

3. It keeps their mind occupied in a healthy, constructive way, and;

4. THEY get to be the center of attention, plus we get treats!

So, it has advantages beyond just showing off what your bird can do, and THOSE are the real benefits.

Those two little hellion conures of mine had conure spoiled bird syndrome, and working with them like this helped reign that in. Of course, having an amazon that wouldn't tolerate bad behaviors and got in their little birdie faces when they acted up helped a lot more...

So, Sally gets most of the credit for that one!

 

[Lullx]

Thank you all so much for the replies!

Wendy, that video of Fargo was so precious! And the gif is adorable haha
Also glad to know that gifs work here in posts
And thank you for the links! I've been considering toys like that for LO
I hadn't seen the last one before! That's really cool.

I hope to start off with a shape sorter.
Then I'll move on to more difficult puzzles when LO is ready.
I was also considering a bead maze.
Would these be good learning toys for a baby grey?

Birdman, that's great information to hear once again. I knew about being consistent with the attention I give them, but I like hearing that again and again. It helps reassure me that my research has been leading me down the correct path.

I want to teach my little one colours and basic counting skills. I want him to be able to make little "songs" on his little piano an play music with me. I used to play violin and bass guitar, but had to stop due to arthritis; I hope to get back into bass at least, as it's easier, physically. I also have a ukulele that I think might be fun to play with him.

I want LO to feel included and welcome in the things I like to do. I want to be able to take him to my favorite cafe and have him be comfortable enough to play and train with me there. I want to keep him properly socialized and do my best to raise a healthy, well-rounded companion. I also want to get him into wearing hoodies and sweaters so he doesn't get chilly here in New York outside of my apartment.

I should really look further into the case study of Alex. It makes me a little sad to realize he really was just essentially that- a case study. Whenever I mention that I'm getting a grey and plan to train it, I always hear Alex mentioned in response, which makes me a little uneasy.

 

[Birdman666]

I've met Irene. He was more than that to her... I know that for a fact!

BUT it was both a fascination, and her life's work...

And the thing about Alex is that he WAS NOT extraordinary in any way. He was just a random pet shop CAG selected for her initial doctorate.

It's all about the training methods they used with him, and the amount of training he got. All day, every day. Which is probably too much. Especially when the person you most want to interact with is not there...

That basketball set was a dollar store find, by the way.

As was the little birdie baseball set.

The little birdie hockey/soccer net.

The little birdie bowling set.

The skateboards were tech decks. They came from Target. I even found a macaw sized one... and those worked great.

My conures couldn't get enough of this stuff.

Most of my birds liked bowling.

NOT my Red Lored Amazon. She wanted nothing to do with anything other than puzzle toys.

 

[Birdman666]

CAGS spook easier than most birds. If you're going to out and about train him I would definitely harness train him...

I've lost Tusk FIVE times. He has flown off on me, and I've managed to get him back. So, definitely harness train. You don't want him flying off, or flying off into traffic. Don't go there!

 

[Lullx]

It had to be really tough on poor Alex ):

I'm not doubting that Irene really adored him, but he was still a case study in many ways. The fact that I knew about him and what he was capable when I was a child and didn't know much about birds really says a lot. Nearly everyone I talk to knows about Alex!
I'm not going to force any of my birds, and especially not my grey, into doing anything they don't want to.

And I bought an Aviator harness for LO already I plan to start the process of training him to use it when he gets comfortable here with me. I'll have it sitting in his quarantine room from day one so he sees it and it's one of the first things he (hopefully) gets used to.

The cafe I frequent has its quieter times during the week, and I'll be bringing his travel cage with some fleece on the sides so he can hide away if it gets too much for him. The first few times I bring him, I'll probably have him stay inside the cage while I drink my tea in a to-go cup in case he gets too freaked out and I need to leave after just five minutes. It's a really cozy and artsy cafe. They have open mic on Sundays for music, on Thursday for poetry, and they have a craft night. I know a few of the people who work there. It's a really relaxing atmosphere, which I think will be good for LO. The table I usually sit at is in a corner, because I'm socially anxious myself and like to be able to see everything without feeling too exposed. Maybe that's why I identify with birds so much haha

 

[labell]

I haven't met her, I did read the book Alex and Me. She did love him no doubt and I think in the beginning he got a lot more one on one time with her. As time went on he didn't and had other trainers so that they could say it wasn't just Alex loving bond with Irene alone that made him preform so well. Though as far as I can determine he always lived in the lab which I think was a mistake. She was the pioneer in proving parrot intelligence so I am sure she was being VERY scrutinized in her methods.

 

[Birdman666]

I haven't met her, I did read the book Alex and Me. She did love him no doubt and I think in the beginning he got a lot more one on one time with her. As time went on he didn't and had other trainers so that they could say it wasn't just Alex loving bond with Irene alone that made him preform so well. Though as far as I can determine he always lived in the lab which I think was a mistake. She was the pioneer in proving parrot intelligence so I am sure she was being VERY scrutinized in her methods.

I went to a three day parrot training seminar she taught... I want to say 12-ish years ago now?!

It wasn't cheap, but it was VERY informative... I learned a lot that weekend I think.

As I recall, Irene told me the plucking started after he came down with aspergillosis, and then got worse later on when she was gone more.

 

[Lullx]

Oooh, I hope I someday get the opportunity to go to a seminar like that.
There isn't anything in my area ever for parrots and parrot-related fun stuffs.

That's a big reason why I joined this forum! I wanted to interact with other parrot owners. Well, I know a few locally who are... Kind of ambivalent. They treat their birds like decor or a status symbol, which honestly infuriates me.

I've altered, and continue to alter, my entire life to better suit my flock. I try to educate people in my area about how complex and incredible birds are. I know I've opened a few eyes, and I often get messages from people on Facebook about how much they've learned and how much they love seeing my bird posts.

I feel like I'm walking a bit of a fine line between educating and advertising, so I'm trying to be very careful with what I broadcast.

 

[Birdman666]

CAGS learn by watching. Sit down and do the puzzle toys. Explain the colors. Put them on the pegs. Mix up the colors and sort them out in front of him. Then if he's fascinated by it, let him try.

Take the time to explain things to them, they will learn it in context.

Speak to them appropriately and in context, and they will pick it up appropriately and in context. (Sometimes things you don't want them to know in context.)

Get in the habit of identifing objects for them. Teach them what they are.

 

[Christinenc2000]

CAGS learn by watching. Sit down and do the puzzle toys. Explain the colors. Put them on the pegs. Mix up the colors and sort them out in front of him. Then if he's fascinated by it, let him try.

Take the time to explain things to them, they will learn it in context.

Speak to them appropriately and in context, and they will pick it up appropriately and in context. (Sometimes things you don't want them to know in context.)

Get in the habit of identifing objects for them. Teach them what they are.

Do you think that is with any Bird on only CAGS

 

[Birdman666]

It's true of all of them, but a CAG will actually sit there and study every little thing you're doing. (Unfortunately, the pluckers often sit there and fret about it as well... CAGS sometimes OVERTHINK things. Reassurance is a good thing if you notice that.)

Hint: They're taking notes.

They don't necessarily let on that they've learned it, until one day, they just blow you away with how much they know.

One of the methods that Irene used was a rival method. A rival person or bird would be asked the question.

The bird would be competing not only to get the correct answer, but to beat the other guy to it.

Sometimes they just watch the other guy and learn.

Alex used to heckle Wart mercilessly... he was just so much quicker on the draw.

He actually forced Wart to work harder by teasing him... in human! The way, say, an athlete razzes a team mate when he's doggin' it in practice...

 

[Lullx]

CAGS learn by watching. Sit down and do the puzzle toys. Explain the colors. Put them on the pegs. Mix up the colors and sort them out in front of him. Then if he's fascinated by it, let him try.

Take the time to explain things to them, they will learn it in context.

Speak to them appropriately and in context, and they will pick it up appropriately and in context. (Sometimes things you don't want them to know in context.)

Get in the habit of identifing objects for them. Teach them what they are.

I've been reading that as well! Is it true that they respond well to a "your turn!" approach?

I know that they have the intellectual capacity of a small child, but the sources I've read vary in their approximation. Some say they're equivalent to a child aged 3-5, while some claim 5-7. And of course their emotional capacity is around that of a human toddler.
Either way, would you say it's best to approach learning with them the same way you would a child?

Reading articles and watching videos online only get me so far until I actually have my little one in my hands. I'm also having trouble conceptualizing exactly how big they are for some reason. Like, with my green cheeks and cockatiel, I can look at a toy in a store and know instantly if it's appropriately sized, is strong enough to withstand their beaks, or easily chewable, ect.
But for a CAG, I feel totally lost on what's appropriate for their size and beaks. I know I'll get it once LO is here, but it's making buying toys VERY difficult right now. I know they're about a foot long once fully grown, and I also know that they vary in size from bird to bird, but there's a mental block there when it comes to me being able to imagine exactly how big they are. I think part of it is because my LO is so tiny still, and I've never physically handled an adult CAG. I'm also used to my little guys, so it's really throwing off my perspective

 

[Birdman666]

Well, Tusk is actually one of the Big Uns... He's what they call a Silver Gray. He's about the same size as my Red Fronted Macaw...

Toys, anything designed for a medium sized macaw or amazon will work.

Pipe bells are one of Tusk's favorite. A large preening toy is a must have. A couple of foraging toys.

The biggest thing about raising a well adjusted CAG is that they do not do well growing up in isolation. These are flock birds. Growing up in isolation contributes to neurotic tendencies... (which they have in abundance!)

They also can be quite skittish around new things, so you have to "introduce them" to things in order to get them to accept them. And at some point, instead of being skittish, they become curious instead. What's that? Is that for me? I want it... GIMME IT! IT'S MINE!!! I make all sorts of strange things for Tusk to play with, and then just toss them on top of the cage, and let him explore it himself. He is also my number one paper shredder. He has a phone book a day habit...

Well adjusted CAGS are instigators. They are stubborn and opinionated. They mess with people, other animals, and things. Tusk is far more likely to pluck you than himself... And that's actually kinda what you want. A certain amount of 'tude is normal and healthy. Train them to behave, but don't crush that independent spirit.

 

[Lullx]

Absolutely! I really appreciate your feedback here

I want my baby to be confident and sassy like my green cheek Genevieve is, which is why I'm going to harness train him and get him out as much as I can, without overwhelming him.

I decided on this species because they're everything I ever wanted (and needed) in a companion. I like to be challenged and to learn. I thrive when I'm nurturing and developing. I'm only 22, so I still have some mental development ahead of me, though that is winding down. I have several autoimmune diseases, which have all contributed to my anxiety, depression and agoraphobia. But when I'm handling my birds, I feel so at ease and temporarily forget that I'm sick and in constant pain. The few times I've been able to take my conure or cockatiel out in public on their harness, social interaction has been a breeze for me, because I'm focusing on making them feel safe and comfortable. When people ask me about my birds, I light up and forget I'm afraid of people haha I go into a confident and protective mode to help my babies feel safe, and my own insecurities melt away.

I'm unable to work, and probably never will be able to, so I wanted something to nurture, to love, and to help blossom. I am unable to have kids (and that would just be irresponsible in my situation), but I've done my research and came to the conclusion that a CAG is within my ability to care for properly. This will be the last permanent addition to my flock.
I get SSI due to my health, and hardly spend my "extra" money (after bills are paid and food is bought) outside of caring for my birds. They are my everything. I have an emergency fund set up in case of a health crisis for all of my birds, and have a budget for them each month. I've been saving up for months for this CAG, and all of the things I'll need for him, including the preliminary vet visit.
I've been researching and deliberating and combing over every detail I can for the last several months.

My partner is also moving in with me at the end of the year, so I'll also have extra help after LO has been here for just a couple of months. The grey is exclusively my bird, but my boyfriend is "step dad" to the flock.
We're even moving everything around my apartment to help make it the safest, most welcoming place possible for my Little One.

All of this preparation has got me rather high-strung and I'm trying to get all of the anxiety out before LO comes home, for obvious reasons.

Are there any books you would recommend for training a CAG? Both general training and trick/prop training. It would be nice to have a physical manual to be able to refer to if I need it.

 

[Birdman666]

Are there any books you would recommend for training a CAG? Both general training and trick/prop training. It would be nice to have a physical manual to be able to refer to if I need it.

Specific to CAGS? Don't waste money. This covers the basics:

http://theworldofafricangreys.weebly.com/more-on-training.html


Best trick training series on the market, in my opinion, is Tani Robar's book and video series... The videos are excellent! The book, not quite as good as seeing it happen step by step in the video. (This is where I learned much of what I know.)

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Tani-Robar/e/B001H6GAL4"]Amazon.com: Tani Robar: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle[/ame]


Tani Robar, Feather Fantasy

Tani Robar ? Bird Trainer Extraordinaire

 

[Lullx]

Thank you so much!

I agree that videos are a lot easier for learning. I could always just play the videos in my laptop and take that wherever like I used to do when I was in college.

It almost feels like I'm back in school, taking a CAG Preparation class or something haha
So much homework!