Transient Ischemic Attacks in Parrots

[GaleriaGila]

Well, friends, I need to pick your brains.

TIAs

My Certified Avian Veterinarian has tentatiely diagnosed the Rickeybrd with TIAs... essentially, they're quick mini-strokes which usually quickly remit with no permanent damage, but do indicate future likelihood of a more serious stroke. Even so, many people (and birds, I presume) live with them for years.
In the Rb's case, they present as a quick flapping fall to the floor, followed by about 5 minutes of dizziness, left leg weakness/incoordination, and stupor. Within ten miutes, he's totally back to normal, and I mean totally. I've only seen 2-3 possibe incidents in the last year, and only the last one (yesterday) was really clearly a TIA (we think).

VET INPUT

My vet (who's on vacation, but will get on this first thing whe he returns) hinted that there's not much standard for birds.Of course he'll do more tests to rule out other possibilities.
For now he suggests just watching him, and maybe limiting some of his more dangerous antics like terrorizing the household (good luck to me on THAT).
Even diagnosis is rare, because most birds don't reach 70-80 (the vet's estimated Patagonian years for a 34 year old) and the actual TIAs are often so brief (even as quick as 5 minutes) that nobody notices. As for treatment? With people, blood thinners (aspirin or prescription), lifestyle changes (lose weight, eat better, exercise, lower stress) and environmental/household safety changes.
The Rb has a perfect diet and is already very lightweight, and gets exercise, and if he has stress, he makes it for himself.

MEANWHILE

The vet did suggest getting a more shallow cage so that falls will be less dangerous. I'm on that.
As you might imagine, I'm reeling! Trying to decide on a balance of the freedom he is used to, and the enclosure/safety measures he may need now.
Do any of you have knowledge or experience with TIAs in birds?

 

[Owlet]

This must be scary, I don't have any knowledge or experience of this but I can look into things and see if I can find anything that could help. I truly wish you the best of luck.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Owlet, I appreciate anything and everything you may do or find out!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have Googled like crazy and am still doing so! Thank you!

 

[Kiwibird]

I'm so sorry to hear the RB is having these kind of issues Gail To me, it sounds like just one of those things that comes with advanced age. RB is quite old for his species and doesn't sound like he is in bad overall health, so be grateful for that!

My moms amazon had 2 major strokes and numerous suspected 'mini strokes' or seizures of some sort in the interim between the big ones. That said, he was only a middle aged bird but had suffered suspected genetic issues from a young age that no vet could ever pinpoint/definitively diagnose. No idea if those genetic issues are what caused his strokes or not because all his tests afterwards showed the profile of a healthy bird. His vet just left it at "watch and wait" with no specific treatment as there really isn't much to do about it in a bird without other diagnosable ailments. His first stroke left him with lasting damage to one side of his body (similar to human stroke victims) that made flight, climbing and perching more difficult after an initial recovery period where he couldn't perch or fly at all. My mom allowed him more treats and more time doing his favorite things, as she knew his time on this earth wasn't going to be another umpteen years. Why not allow him to enjoy the good time he had left kind of thing? He seemed happy enough and lived a fairly normal life for quite a few years after the first big stroke. Easy to grip perches spaced closely together for ease of climbing and overall lower to the ground kept him from ever being injured. He would occasionally fall off his perch and have just the symptoms you describe- little mini strokes (or possibly seizures of some sort, not sure), but recovered quickly from them. She also left the amazons cages (they were connected) half covered and a light on as he feel a lot at night after the first stroke.

I really hope that these attacks stay 'minor' and that the RB has a lot more years left in him as a cranky old man

 

[Scott]

Gail, I know you will pursue knowledge and possible treatment/palliatives ceaselessly. The Rb could not have more caring and devoted parronts!

April's narrative seems to confirm the notion avian brains are robust and capable of functioning despite a degree of ischemic activity.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Kiwi's Mom, that helps tremendously. I mean TREMENDOUSLY. The Rb has had and is having a wonderful, healthy, protected, and loved, and God knows LONG life!!!! Thank you for taking the time to write that. I will treasure it.
Scott, thank you so much. As you know, I promised the Rb I'd outlive him, and I plan to do just that, with as much love and composure I can muster. It's absolutely what I want to do.

I feel better.

And for now, he's back to his usual Genghis Conure (my vet calls him that) self.

Thanks, community.

 

[SailBoat]

That is a whole different issue from my experiences over the years and the many Amazons that have graced our home. The sad reality is; Heart Failure has been the causes of our losses.

I am aware of Avian Strokes, but not the TIA variants, sorry, but nothing to add.

Prayers and big, warm, Amazon Feather Hugs!!!

 

[EllenD]

Awe I'm so sorry for you and the RB, that's a rare and frustrating diagnosis...

I remember a young woman on this forum going through exactly this with her Caique about a year ago, exactly the same symptoms and scenario that you describe! She actually put a camera on his cage and caught several of the "attacks" and uploaded them to the forum, which consisted of the Caique either being aware he was going to have an attack and hurrying to scamper down the side of the cage to the floor, or simply just falling off of the perch to floor with a thump, followed by a few minutes of obvious dizziness, balance issues, and the bird being confuse and out of it for a couple of minutes, then he was totally fine...I remember it well, and if I recall she had taken him to her CAV multiple times for multiple tests, and they hadn't come to a diagnosis as of the last time I looked at the thread, though TIA's/strokes were at the top of the list of suggestions for what was going on with him...They may have gotten a diagnosis finally, as they were in the middle of testing when I stopped following the thread, so maybe if you can find the thread in the Caique section you might get some very specific answers, because what you are describing is EXACTLY what was going on with this Caique, with videos for you to compare...

 

[GaleriaGila]

Mr. Boats, Amazon Feather Hugs are th4e best medicine for body AND soul!!!!!!

Ellen, THANK YOU. I will search that up right away. The Rb is in my sights most of the day, so I don't THINK that he's having them often, but even one fall could be disastrous. That does indeed sound like what the Rb did. Anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, I am on that RIGHT NOW!

 

[EllenD]

FOUND IT!!! THERE IS A VIDEO IN THE FIRST POST!!!
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/67210-caique-fainting-seizure-video-no-vet-dx.html

 

[GaleriaGila]

I just found it, too!
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/67210-caique-fainting-seizure-video-no-vet-dx-3.html
Many thanks...
That does look alot a lot A LOT like what the Rb did. Not identicalbut a LOT.
She included many videos in later posts.
Unfortunately her last post was in early April...
I'm going to bump the thread and PM her, too.

 

[EllenD]

I just watched the last 3 videos that document the entire thing...I actually commented that I thought it looked like mini-strokes, lol, ironic...

Yeah, she never came back after that, I hope that isn't an indication that the bird passed-away, as her Avian Vet seemed to think it was just "clumsiness" or a problem with his leg or foot, which it obviously was not. Hopefully she still gets notifications when she gets a PM and she'll get back to you with what the end-result was...She also was posting the videos on YouTube, so you might go to YouTube and search for the videos and find her username/account there, she was probably more active on YouTube than here, and maybe still is...

 

[marrmarr]

id suggest nigella sativa seeds as it helps people with neurological problems. they are safe for birds. https://www.researchgate.net/public...fects_of_Nigella_sativa_Black_Seed_-_A_Review here is a good article on it. you can order the seeds off amazon and implement to your birds diet. sorry to hear about this. you have a good head on your shoulders and will definitely work this out.

 

[Inger]

I think we all know that you can’t live the rabble-rousing, henzz chasing, cigar smoking, hard drinking, depraved mafioso lifestyle without eventually facing some consequences. [emoji6]

In seriousness though, I have nothing useful to offer but my sincere hope these episodes are just little blips in the next 34 years of RB’s life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kentuckienne]

I got no medical advice ... only maybe don't get him a different cage, just put something higher up inside the cage he has now so he doesn't freak? I hope there is something they can do ...

 

[GaleriaGila]

Ellen, good idea... I'll get to YouTube. You're the best.

marr... thank you! I'll ask my vet about those seeds... I thik there are already some in the Harrison's I feed... but I will find out!

Inger, yessssssss, the chickens have, so to speak, come home to roost! You can't expect to live the thug life and not have problems, eventually. Thanks for the thoughts.

Ms. Sidechick... I definitely AM having second thoughts about the cage. Maybe alter it... I probaby don't want to get him an unfamiliar one, right? He has been fine, thank goodness, since the event.

Okay, thanks, everybody... I'm grateful. Feeling very supported.

 

[SailBoat]

There is a platform style perch available, which is made from stainless steel bar much like the construction the cage. Used one a bunch of years ago, will need to dig around a bit, I know that it made the move.

It sounds like a combination of what? Moving Stuff Down or moving the bottom-up?

 

[GaleriaGila]

Gee, Mr. Boats...
I guess... either or both?
I'm looking for a more shallow cage (less tall) for starters... still just looking and thinking.
The Rb has had so many cages over the years. He'd adjust quickly. And now that I'm retired, he doesn't spend much time i it anyway, so smaller might be just fine AND safer.
And that perch thingie sounds GOOD.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Have you a cooling rack for baking that would fit? Maybe could zip tie it halfway up? I gots lotsa similar things, what size is his cage?

 

[Anansi]

Sending warm thoughts and prayers your and RB's way, my friend. Judging from what you've said, compared with what we see in the video from the other thread (Great idea providing the link for that, EllenD), it is at least possible both birds are suffering from the same ailment. RB's just seems far less advanced.

Or it may be the case of his just getting tripped up. I'm hoping the vet will have more answers for you when he returns. In the meantime, please give RB some extra scritches for me? And a chili or two?