Too many questions, not enough answers lol

[JerseyWendy]

This is a transcript from Mary Nogare. It helps build trust with our parrots. It is a long read, but IMO worth a try. I'm not saying you won't get bit anymore after reading this, lol, but perhaps a good start is to build trust.

BY MARY NOGARE
Here is a description by Mary Nogare of how to play the "blinking game":

The blinking game is a game to play with your parrot that simulates parrot body language believed to express comfort, security and trust. The idea of using this body language is to communicate in a way that a parrot instinctively understands as a bridge to trustbuilding.

You can do this any time and anywhere - even if you are just trying to convey a gentle "I love you" to your parrot - on a playtree, on your hand, or on/in a cage.

We will describe it with the bird inside the cage, since that is a good place to start with a bird that is wild, afraid, not used to humans, not used to nice humans, etc.

With her inside her cage, enter the room with a happy, gentle smile and expression on your face. Speak gently and calmly to her and praise her.

Go near her cage but not right up to it. Ensure she can see your face and eyes.

Greet her (so you are sure she is looking at you). Then slowly close your eyes. Hold them closed for a count of three and then slowly open them. You don't have to open them sssslllllloooooowwwwwwlllllllyyyy - just open them gently - don't "snap" them open. Then repeat. Watch her for a second, but ensure your gaze is gentle - even if you have to lower your eyes just a little and not look at her straight-on (this can be an important step for a frightened parrot - when your bird trusts and knows you, you can look "straight-on" - just keep the gaze gentle).

She may blink back. It may be a quick blink. Blink back in the slow blink described. Praise her gently. She may now give you a longer blink back - maybe fluttering her eyelids just a little bit. By closing her eyelids for any length of time, she is showing you trust and is responding to your overture of trust.

Do it one more time...blink slowly, praise gently. Watch for her response.

End of session. You don't want to overdo it.

Next time you try it (whether from inside her cage or from a playtree, etc), she may respond more quickly with a long blink of her own. Praise her and repeat the blink....

If you do the blink from a place away from the cage (where she is out of the cage) ensure your face and nose are sufficiently far away that if she should spook, she will not lunge and grab you by your handy nose-handle while your eyes are closed. Eclectus typically would not do that, but it is best to be safe.

Sometimes, the birds will blink, hold their eyelids closed for a second, then open them just a tiny bit to see if your eyelids are still closed.

After she is comfortable responding to your blinking, you can keep your eyes shut for a bit longer - birds seem to enjoy that, and will also lengthen the time they keep their eyes shut...sometimes peeking as above.

After she is used to communicating with you in this way, you will find that you can play the "blinking game" even from across a room - as long as she can see your face and eyes, she can see the exaggerated blinking of this body language communication.

 

[sarafigal]

Just pick him up with both hands wrapped around his body and move him around. Just lets him get used to the idea of you being in control. But do it once. Then put him down. Use treats when he is good as well. Love training and not letting him get away with anything

I agree with the push-back. When my rescued BFA (only with us three weeks now) gets aggressive, I move the back of my hand (in a tight fist) near her beak. She already realizes she can strike, and it has no effect. She immediately backs down. I don't ever make contact--I just demonstrate that her lunging won't drive me away or otherwise dictate my behavior.

I have NOT picked her up, however. Could you describe in detail how you would do that, if the bird is unwilling to stand there nicely?

 

[Lovelyloribeth]

Kat. Imma call you. If you're sleeping call me when you get up.

 

[Lovelyloribeth]

Kat is like my adopted mom. I've known her for years and years. She needs tons of encouragement!! She called me crying last night so I told her to post this thread. She needs things to help her not be scared of rocky first. she so doubting herself as the right owner for rocky. And this woman has a monkey who slaps the crap out of her lol.

Kat, when chichi was bitey I posted a thread, the advice in this thread alone worked! I used everyone's advice. I took pieces from everyone and formed a self discipline plan that worked like a charm. At least read it.

http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/21188-chi-chi-bitey.html

I love you kitty.

 

[MonicaMc]

My experience with green cheeks is limited to "training" one, or rather, showing the owner how to handle her own green cheek. (posted back in August)

A month or so ago, a customer where I work asked me if I wanted another bird. She knew someone who had a green cheek parrot of some sort that she was needing to rehome. I would love another bird, but at the same time, I do not feel financially ready for one, but I gave the customer my information to pass it along.

Last Thursday, said owner of the bird called me and asked me if I wanted the bird. Her and I discussed a few different options and I told her I'd come over when she has an available time.

Last night (Tuesday), I went over to see this green cheek conure of hers. Now, here's Winston's story. Winston is about 3 years old, and he was shipped to a local pet-store, sick. The owners daughter worked there and spent 3 or more months getting Winston back into good health. Then, mothers day came around, and the daughter bought Winston for her mother. Typical story, bird loves daughter, hates mother. Daughter goes off to college, mom is stuck with a bird she cannot handle!

When trying to handle Winston, she gets bit! Take her out of the cage, bite before coming out, and if she manages to come out, bite on the way out. Bite when up on the shoulder, random bites when handling her. The last straw came when Winston bit her owner's lip, and ever since then, she has had *NO* trust in Winston.


So okay, I go over, I listen to her, put my hand up against the cage and ya, Winston is interested! Nibbling hard, but not quite biting with force. I watch as the owner tries to get Winston out of her cage. Winston wont come out, but she'll do anything for a sunflower seed! So... I start feeding Winston sunflower seeds and she takes them from me - with some hesitation. Then got her used to taking the sunflower seeds off the back of my hand (skin semi-tight). Eventually, I had my left hand in a "half" fist (fingers curled at the first digit away from the knuckles) and I was placing the sunflower seed near my wrist. Placed in such a manner, she'd have to put at least one foot onto my hand in order to reach the seed. Place a little further back, there's two feet on my hand and she's out of the cage!


I sat there with Winston, feeding her seeds, occasionally getting her to switch hands and she was not biting! Not evening nibbling! Every once in a while she made to fly off, but being unable to fly, didn't actually try. She just leaned and opened her wings a little. As I was talking to the owner, I was telling her how simple it would be to train her, and kind of demonstrated by using a sunflower seed to turn Winston around in a circle - and treat! Did this a few times to show them her willingness.


Winston's owner also told me how difficult it is to remove Winston from her shoulder. When she's up there and they want her down, she avoids them, bites them and they have to chase her around. I willingly, to an unknown and strange bird, allowed her, Winston, to climb up to my shoulder. I then used the sunflower seeds to get her to step up *WILLINGLY* back to my hand. The bird only listened to the daughter - no one else could handle her.

After a bit, I even had Winston step up onto her owners hand and she hung out there for a few moments, but I didn't leave Winston there for long as I know the owner is still afraid of getting bitten, and we didn't want Winston traveling up to her shoulder.

Now, Winston did end up biting me, and biting me *REAL* good! But this was due to the fact that she has a leg band that is too big for her and she managed to get one toe stuck inside of it. I didn't hold her in a grip that would have prevented her from biting period, but then her bites really don't hurt compared to bites I've received from other parrots! Managed to move the band back up her leg and after that she wasn't too happy with me, but it was the first time she was allowed out of her cage in who knows how long!



Although I did not use a clicker, clicker training is essentially the same concept... and it can be used to teach parrots to play with toys, teach them that going to other people is a *good* thing, and it's also a great, and fun way for owner and bird to bond! The bird learns that good behaviors get rewarded and the owner learns how to better communicate with the bird, thus learning to avoid getting bitten in the first place!



When I left, Winston's owner was so appreciative of the fact that I had come over. She is not a person to give up on an animal, but she ended up with a bird she had no clue how to handle. (she's owned several cockatiels in the past!) She views pets as having them for life! So she felt pretty bad about the thought of having to give up Winston, even though she can't handle her... and today, she's excited to start training Winston!

It can be more difficult working with a larger bird that bites and might not be food aggressive. I only thought of Winston because of Loribeth. Winston's owner can't handle taking a bite from Winston, but she doesn't really know how to *read* Winston's body language and gets bit in the process. I made that post in the beginning of August, and she told me that for the first two weeks, things were great! Third week, she got bit and she took it personally. Winston has a *huge* cage (bigger than what my own conure has! and he's in a 32 x 23 cage!) and is on a good diet! If Winston's owner could learn to read her body language and not to take bites personally, I think the two would get along great! From the sounds of it though, she just can't get order that hurdle.


Kat, if you believe in yourself, you can do it! Takes a little confident, understanding and compassion! It's a lot to take on a bird that has no interest in you, and it could take several months to get her to warm up to you, but don't allow that to discourage you! Amazons are usually highly food motivated (they're typically known as the perch potatos of the parrot world! LOL) so sharing food or giving treats may work in your favor!

 

[Lovelyloribeth]

She's been doing this to show her that hands yield treats not harm. Hopefully she will be on soon to read all this. Thanks for responding.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Kat, keep your head up, and don't give up. You are giving a wonderful, warm, loving home, so please don't doubt yourself. I'm sure we all have doubts every once in a while, especially if we get nailed hard and wonder WHY.

Time and patience will prevail, there's no telling how long.... just take it a day at a time.

 

[Thekatsmeow]

Thank You all so much for all the advice. There are days when Rocky picks up her foot when I put my hand in her cage and for her thats her sign of "pick me up momma". Then there are days when she flares her eyes and lunges to bite so I retreat and leave her alone. I am hoping that through gaining her trust we will have more good days than bad. I know she likes attention from me because I can't leave the room without her screaming. On good days she is allowed to go from room to room with me to do whatever I am doing. On bad days she screams when I leave the room. I have her in the living room because I am home all day and I wanted her with me. Her previous owner worked so there were long hours when Rocky was left alone with the dogs (which explains her favorite behavior of barking like a pit bull). She is getting MUCH more stimulation than she used to. When she wants left alone it gives me time to take Jacob monkey out for socialization. He is another one that cannot handle too much stimulation and before you know it I am sitting on a large monkey who is pitching a tantrum. I noticed something calming about blinking back and forth with Rocky early on when she came to live here. It really was good to hear that I was right in using that to bond with her. We use that in small amounts with the primates with one huge exception. With a newly homed or aggressive monkey you do not want to make direct eye contact for more than a second. Prolonged eye contact is a sign of dominance, defiance and an extreme challenge. My hope is to understand what Rocky would like from me whether it is to be my companion or just left unhandled and respected as one of Gods creations. I know it might sound strange that I am more afraid of Rocky clamping down on my hand again than I am of Jacob ripping my arm off and beating me with it. Birds just show their affection in ways I am not that familiar with and primates are so close to humans that it is easier for me. I am just glad that the bird doesn't have to wear diapers! I will continue to use bonding techniques and I am obsessed with reading/viewing all I can to improve my relationship with her.

 

[Thekatsmeow]

I was posting some pictures on another thread of the monkeys and came across this one. This is the stare I referenced earlier. This is an aggressive stare and just after I took his picture he yawned really slowly to show me his loooong fangs just in case the stare wasn't enough.

 

[Joshmackow]

Thought I would reply again, Your confidence will be low after being bitten. This happened to me (Peanut isn't my bird) It took me until I went to see the breeder we bought him off to learn.

He has a 9 year old gallah, this parrot is well trained but has seen a lot of young children come through the store. He watched me as I pulled away from his beloved parrot and after it struck during a friendly pet (he put his head down then bit me). After he explained what to do with his parrot I stopped pulling away and just sucked up a couple of bites. Pushing back when he grabbed me and or twisting my hand out of his mouth without sharp jerkey movements. After this, the bird instantly got better.

to fix the pulling away I had done, John picked up his parrot with both hands to the birds slgiht discomfort and moved him upside down, against his chest to show him that he can't get away with biting. After I tried again, the bird was back to the correct behaviour and if he did bite, not letting his bites get a reaction stopped it, making him not bite me again.


In the end, I took this behaviour home to peanut, and for the last month me and my brother have been doing this and watching peanut get so much better to the point that he is now near perfect in behaviour. We all get scared. But keep your head up. If you need a break from his behaviour take it. Then come back, but never give up! we all doubt ourselves.

When it comes to picking a bird up as well, if he is completely against it, don't do it, read the body language, but it can be made into a fun game for them and can allow new trust. Never coddle a bird into thinking it can't play rough

I believe in you. I just got my grey and his nibbling and grabbing is reducing with the same technique. The breeder I bought him off has taught him some terrible habits. So I have some work to do. But I know I can do it!

 

[Thekatsmeow]

Thank you for the advice. Today was a great day with Rocky. She was with me for quite awhile today going from room to room getting chores done. Who know what tomorrow will bring. Hopefully she will want to interact with me more.

 

[ClancyTheAmazon]

Hi,

Our boy Clancy has been in our family since he was born(my grandmas parrot) and he has been living in our home for the past 2 months or so. He is calm during the day for the most part but he is cage terratorial when its playtime so he is hard to take out of his "new enviornment" with just your hand. We have been useing a "U" shaped rope to move him from his cage to his play tree.. my mom..not me can usually bring him back to his cage with her arm. He knows the step up command as he was trained in the past but lately when we have tried to give him out of the cage time he has been aggressive even though he wants to come out..1st time with me alone he did ok with a smooth transition but lately he has put his foot up as he has in the past and uses his beak to get on the rope and has been aggressive..i try to talk softley to him when he is on it but he re lunges at the rope and starts to climb towards my fingers and im not sure why..ive avoided getting bit but i think he might be more scared now of the rope I have tried to hand him apples from my hand (first in my family and it is his fav food) to help build trust and he has taken them from me. i used the word gentley and its ok and it worked but he hasnt taken them from me lately..i have tried to use the rope with and without my moms presense with the same result and im not sure why he is being so aggressive..p.s when i was a kid he would come on my arm but now he is 20 yrs old and im older so im not sure how to make him comfertable again with me or my mom taking him out to his tree or putting him back in his cage.

Thanks for your advice we would love to have him be more cooperative when giving him play time.
also i wanted to know if touching his foot on the outside of the cage building trust? Me and my mom also spend time together with him bc he loves to whislte so i do that and click when he does..not sure if im sending aggressive signals or something? I also know his fav song so i whistle and sing it to him..when hes in the cage he hangs upside down and swings his head. I think that is helping to build our relationship.. Thanks

 

[Joshmackow]

How is the progress with rocky ?

 

[Clueless]

I have read sooooooo many magazines and books about parrots. Yet I'm still petrified of one of these little feathered creatures. Odd how something so small can stalk something so much bigger than they are!

Henpecked gave good advice - pick them up, give them a treat, sit them back down. I attended a fair and watched and listened to Barbara Heidenreich. She's awesome! I now have one of my parrots stepping up on a hand (and he was SO afraid of them before). The other one that puts fear into me? I'm using Henpecked's advice and Barbara's together. Barbara showed me how to hold my hand tight (thumb is lying on top) and that limits the amount of loose skin available to the parrot beak. I now can get Secret to step up on the hand, get a treat, and promptly sit her back down on her little wooden perch. I'm content with doing that for 6 months if no bites!!!! Another thing? When the bird starts to lower their head toward your hand - just try to get their attention with the other hand ABOVE their head (holding a treat or a toy or someting). They naturally look up.

Remember - we want to be friends with them. Buddies would be awesome - but I'm content with friendship.