To get bird in and out of the cage

[jessfonger]

Hi everyone,

Our Susan is a 4-month old Senegal that we brought home a little over a month ago.

Issue: I let her out to her playpen every morning but when it's time to sleep, she hates going back in the cage, to the point i have had to corner her to go back in/ swoop her up (she's not used to full palms yet so gets really scared and bites). I don't want to continue these negative experiences for either of us.

Current situation:
- Thinking we need to backtrack and get her used to her cage, i've been keeping her inside for the last 3 days =(. Today she seemed to scream less in the morning and is exploring the toys in the cage. She also started to accept my treats through the cage bars and responds to target training again. First 2 days it was almost like she purposely ignored me out of spite for locking her in.
- Is locking her in for now the right thing to do?? When do i know she's "earned it" and can allow her back out to her playpen again?

More background:
- When we brought her home, she came in a new cage that was foreign to her. From Day 2 of being home, I started opening the cage door and she would very keenly venture out to her playpen. I feel like because she never had the chance to get comfortable in this cage, she hates it.
- She does venture back in for food, but keeps a steady eye out for anyone approaching and would jump back out.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Betrisher]

Target Training!

Honestly, it sounds like a chore to teach a bird to target and you might think 'what use is that? I don't need my bird to do tricks!'

It's much more than that, though. All you do is reward your bird for touching the end of a chopstick. It takes five/ten minutes for the bird to learn how to do it. After that, the stick becomes your magic wand! You can point it anywhere and birdie will rush to touch the end of that wonderful stick and earn a treat.

Of course, you point your stick inside the cage and get birdie to rush in to touch the stick. THEN (and this is most important) you target birdie *out* of the cage and back in and back out a few times. You don't want to teach birdie that every time you target him inside the cage the door will slam on him and he is doomed! So target him in and out a few times and then, eventually, when everyone's calm and happy, quietly close the door and give birdie a bonanza (extra special treat).

This is so painless and easy. If your bird knows how to target, you can ask him/her to do go anywhere for you. It can even be a matter of safety: it's so much easier to say 'Hey! Target!' than to swipe birdie out of the jaws of a cat or away from an electric item.

There are instructions in our training section or just search YouTube. It literally takes about five minutes to teach and it's the best thing you'll do for your bird.

 

[1oldparroter]

Swooping the bird up or toweling, is bad. One person here put meals all the way in the cage. The reason was to allow the bird to enter cage of its' own. They also put a string through the bars and out the door opening to the door itself. When the bird entered, they'd pull the other end and close the door. It's a trick yes But it's a start. Stick training would be very good. Especially if you started getting the bird to go in and out of the cage, on it's own. Routine is the key to training, in my opinion. Use the same time's on a regular basis. jh

 

[wrench13]

Hi Jess, welcome! Where did you get your Senegal, on the Bird Street? I'v been to Hong Kong many times over the last 11 years, and gone to the Bird Street almost every trip, just to hang out on Sundays.

Teaching your parrot to either learn the "UP" command or to target in and out of the cage is the most important thing he needs to learn - you can never tell when you might need to remove him in an emergency, as Betrisher, and the Old Parroter said. There are a few things that make training of parrots to do anything more effective.

As mentioned, be consistent. Decide on how and what signal you will give your parrot to do the 'trick' and then use it every time, and make sure family members know it too.

Another key thing is to reward IMMEDIATELY when the action is done. At first this might only be moving towards the target stick - that is OK. Any positive action is improvement. Have the treat ready. If you wait to treat, the parrot will not make the connection between the action and the treat and training will take a lot longer.

Good Luck!

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Two parts:

It sounds like she doesn't know how to step up for you. You don't offer a bird a flat open palm to step up onto, you offer them your hand like a perch for them to step up onto.

Target training will help with this step up process.

You should check this out for the step up process: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=185101679591624

Great success in just one session! Soooo many details facilitate a nice step up. Let’s talk about a few of them. Many of you already know about a technique I have refined over the years of teaching many parrot training workshops of making your tightly closed fist an extension of the perch so that there is an opportunity to reinforce smaller approximations. You will also notice we talk about the instability of the perch being a factor in making things a bit more challenging in this example. More goodies are offered when the bird is on the hand than for when the bird gets on the perch. Repetition is important to help the bird understand what action earns desired consequences. And you will notice we are not too worried about letting the bird see the food at this stage of the process. If you look closely you will also see those sunflower seeds are broken into tiny pieces. This is important too. This helps keep the bird grazing in the right position, rather than grabbing and going. Step up is a complex behavior and carefully executing many details to your shaping plan can help increase success.

The next part would be something I train constantly.
- step up > treat
- step into cage > treat
- step up > treat
- sit outside of cage > treat

then
- step up > treat
- step into cage > treat
- close door > treat
- open door and step up > treat
- sit outside of cage > treat

We never have a hassle anymore of going into the cage or cage aggression when coming out of the cage.



I assume others will handle the locking in cage element.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Great advice.
And good for you, for reaching out and taking advantage of the support and information here. I'm always impressed with members' knowledge and ideas.
I'll confess my low-tech/low-expertise method. The Rickeybird is obsessed with green chiles. When I want him inside the cage, I toss one in and he flaps in after it. So if you can identify an incredibly attractive treat, you might try that in a pinch. Of course, your bird may be a little too smart to fall for that more than 15-20,000 times...

 

[jessfonger]

Hi Jess, welcome! Where did you get your Senegal, on the Bird Street? I'v been to Hong Kong many times over the last 11 years, and gone to the Bird Street almost every trip, just to hang out on Sundays.

Teaching your parrot to either learn the "UP" command or to target in and out of the cage is the most important thing he needs to learn - you can never tell when you might need to remove him in an emergency, as Betrisher, and the Old Parroter said. There are a few things that make training of parrots to do anything more effective.

As mentioned, be consistent. Decide on how and what signal you will give your parrot to do the 'trick' and then use it every time, and make sure family members know it too.

Another key thing is to reward IMMEDIATELY when the action is done. At first this might only be moving towards the target stick - that is OK. Any positive action is improvement. Have the treat ready. If you wait to treat, the parrot will not make the connection between the action and the treat and training will take a lot longer.

Good Luck!

Yes @Wrench13 - I did get Susan on Bird Street! It's one of my favourite places in HK. Great to come across someone here who knows about this place and has visited a few times. I'm sure you probably even remember the different stalls and their owners very well.

 

[jessfonger]

Thank you to everyone who responded to my post! As an update - it's been close to 1 week but things aren't progressing much at all. I have listed out what I've been doing - any additional input would be greatly appreciated.

1) First 3 days, I kept her in the cage and target trained her ~3 times a day (around 5-10 minutes each session). Generally, she responds exactly as expected - but I feel like she's outsmarting me/ trying to show discontent about being confined because sometimes she just chooses to ignore the target and even the treat and go eat her boring pellets/ play with a toy instead. What is this behavior? Has anyone had a parrot who just isn't that crazy about treats? What to do about it?

2) Day 4 and 5: I start to open the cage door to try to get her used to coming near the door but not allowing her out until I command it with the target. Both times were absolute FAILS. The first day she got too excited after a few good targets, and fell / flew out of the cage. Today she just didn't even care that i was sitting right in front of the cage and leapt past my hand that was partially blocking the way at the door. To the few suggestions (@charmedbyekkie @Betrisher to target in and out of the cage several times - I feel like there is just no way she would ever go back in again after coming out. Is there another method or should I just restart with target training with cage locked for more than a few days, leaving no temptation to play outside?)

Another question, in response to @1oldparroter and @GaleriaGila, before this week of target training i did once try to tie a string to the cage and wait for her to go in for food. She's just too smart and quick for me and will race back out as soon as the string even moves. I'm getting a bigger cage for her soon - I'm hoping it's all because this baby cage is just a forever-tainted place in her eyes and that she will see the new cage as her safe/fun place. Does anyone have any positive experience with a bird who ended up loving their bigger environment with more toys (so combined with target training will solve the going in cage problem?)

Thank you again everyone!!

 

[Betrisher]

I guess the most important thing about target training is finding that one treat your bird will do *anything* for. Mine love sunflower seeds, so that's what I use. If your bird is over-excited about getting out of the cage, then I guess your only alternative is to allow her to fly for a good while. Take advantage of this by targetting her to and from all sorts of places around the room. This should use up a lot of her excess energy and, eventually, allow you to target her back home again.

The main idea is that the bird comes to enjoy the experience of targetting so much that she won't hesitate to do it for you. (That's the aim, at least). The thing is to remain calm and dont communicate your anxiety to the bird. If things don't go as you'd planned, just take it in stride and change the plan. If she escapes, just see if she'll come to your target stick in an open, non-scary place (say, a table top). If she resists, then see if you can get her to move just a few inches to target and earn her treat. You only need one success to build on!

Once birdie is outside the cage, forget about getting her back in. Just try for the successful target and work to build up a few successful results. At the same time (that is, in alternate sessions), perhaps you could work on step-up training? For a bird like yours that doesn't seem to take refuge on your hand, it's something that needs to be done. There are many videos online showing various methods. I like Barbara Heidenreich's, but find one that suits you best.

Work with slow, calm movements. Don't be darting to catch or grab the bird as she flits past: that's only going to slow your progress. Open the cage door slowly and offer your finger (assuming she won't bite it) with a treat. The thing is to offer the *choice* of stepping up, not forcing her to do it. Watch Jamieleigh Womach working with fearful birds. She's almost mesmerising in the slow, calm, deliberate way she moves, never flinching or jumping in response to whatever the bird does (which is brave, considering she often works with macaws). If she tries to get a behaviour from a bird and fails, she simply tries again a few times, then she lets it go.

Gaining obedience from a bird is long journey and sometimes has to be taken with the tiniest of steps (which can be maddening). Don't worry if yours isn't complying right now. With patience and perseverance, she should come round. Don't be put off by 'bad' sessions. Just do it again tomorrow. Repetition is one of the best teachers, you know.

 

[Jottlebot]

A bit of hunger helps. Don't give her a meal just before you target train and take food away long enough for her to get hungry before you start. On a similar note check how much she's eating, if she's full all the time she won't have as much motivation to work for food. If she's on a good pellet you might be surprised how little they actually need to eat!

I don't know how old 4 months is in Senegal years, but for a lot of birds that is still very young. Her treat motivation might just not be that high yet. How are you finding out what treats are her favourite?

Only feed small bits of the treat during training. I get at least 8 pieces out of a cashew and that's for an Alexandrine, so a Senegal will need even less. She won't get full and if she does something AMAZING you can give her an unusually big treat and really encourage the behaviour.

I think you're expecting too much for her to want to target train out of her cage at this point. Start in the cage and when she's out, but I wouldn't bother with the transition until you can get her to target to places all over the room consistently.

I know you don't want to towel her every day, but I'm not sure keeping her in her cage is actually going to achieve anything. Could you put food in at a certain time and try the super sneaky string approach? Can you out food somewhere further back where it's harder for her to leap put? Or put a toy in the way so it slows her down? Also, give yourself plenty of time. If you need her to be in her cage by 8PM put the food in at 6PM and anytime she goes in shut her in. This is just for the time being, eventually you need her to know that she can go in and out more freely. When you're waiting for her to go in, don't look at her, look directly away from her if you can. Would it be safe to actually leave her out all night? Shut the cage and give no access to food and then open it up in the morning with food in and play the string game again.

Basically it's about value and reward. Why is the stand so rewarding, can you make the cage more like that? It might be location, height, toys, things to do, food, getting attention or being left alone. You could try making the cage more appealing, but also the stand less so.

 

[1oldparroter]

One person said her bird dropped everything and flew into cage for a jalapeño . Even if it had just come out and/or just ate. Let the training go for now. Get the new cage established and stocked with the toys and stuff she likes. Get the feeding times standard and established. Try different treats to find most desireable but in small pieces. Then start training times again. Take a 3 month period to do all that. jh

 

[OzBlue]

Its been a while. how is your training going? Updates? Is your bird able to do step up without too many issues? How have you been going getting her back in the cage?

 

[Melscamp]

We have a long drawn out ritual for bed. Everyone goes in on their own. The radio plays until 5:45 and the big light goes off. They start getting into bedtime mode. Then I close the blinds at 6, there's still some light. I ring the bird bell and tell them it's time for bed. Everyone finishes eating and gets into place. Once that happens, I close the door. Then they have a small light that goes off at 6:24. My budgies are not hand tamed but they are into their schedule. I do treat training during the day and don't tye that into bedtime.
I don't want to fight them or go backwards so this works for us. Sound and light has been my best tools for any control.
I tried techniques on this forum that didn't work and I wasn't going to keep them in the cage until they were tamed. Each are on their own level with me and I've gone around to get to them.
Hope this helps.