Thinking of joining the community

[promethuschow]

Ashraful.. welcome to the forum. It's a tons of reading that you are looking at, don't get discouraged but you do need that in order to be a better pet owner for both of you. এটা ধরে নিতে পারেন একটা ফুল টাইম জব. পাখিটিকে আপনার সন্তানের মতোই যত্ন দিতে হবে. আপনি কি তা পারবেন? বাংলাদেশও Avian vet আঁচে বলে Mone hoy
na. vet cost kintu kom na, example ditchi. Last year Amar African Grey cost chilo Bangladesh e Taka e ak laak taka or beshi. Jodi mone you could be a good parent with the understanding that some of them could outlive you, and there is virtually no rehhoming program exist in Bangladesh nor a reputable sanctuary I know off that can take your exotic bird if want to relinquish the ownership. Otherwise, you are welcome, and in January 2018 you can meet my CAG John in Dhaka, we are traveling to Bangladesh for two weeks happy parrot talking.

 

[ashraful]

Ashraful.. welcome to the forum. It's a tons of reading that you are looking at, don't get discouraged but you do need that in order to be a better pet owner for both of you. এটা ধরে নিতে পারেন একটা ফুল টাইম জব. পাখিটিকে আপনার সন্তানের মতোই যত্ন দিতে হবে. আপনি কি তা পারবেন? বাংলাদেশও Avian vet আঁচে বলে Mone hoy
na. vet cost kintu kom na, example ditchi. Last year Amar African Grey cost chilo Bangladesh e Taka e ak laak taka or beshi. Jodi mone you could be a good parent with the understanding that some of them could outlive you, and there is virtually no rehhoming program exist in Bangladesh nor a reputable sanctuary I know off that can take your exotic bird if want to relinquish the ownership. Otherwise, you are welcome, and in January 2018 you can meet my CAG John in Dhaka, we are traveling to Bangladesh for two weeks happy parrot talking.

i actually donot want anything that would outlive me . right now i have a very good deal for a pair of macaws but i donot wana buy them cause they can live for a long time. like 70 years thats quiet lot. there is actually bird sanctuary in bangladesh now ( a safari park in gazipur ) i heard they take those abandoned birds.
And i think with CAG u ment some kind of bird i have no idea what that is . But January is a bad time for me to meet it , normally i would be out of the country from 15 to 25 of January. and also i have no idea what am gona be doing in january 18 but if am around i would love to see it .

 

[ashraful]

Yes, a bird is more work than a fish!
You are talking about adopting a child as opposed to acquiring a 'pet'!
Absolutely, the parrot would play in the turtle enclosure, especially if it is a large terrarium type setup! Getting sick for you is one thing, and fairly easy to avoid, but this would kill the parrot!

my turtles( red eared slider,will turn 1year old with me in next month ) are now 3 inch, and my turtles going to be living in a 72"x24" H 20" aquarium . am going to put a sump filter over the aquarium ( which will cover around half of the top part and i can put a lid on the aquarium so birds wont get inside it .
Well i could easily work with keeping them togather but problem goes as keeping and taking care of the bird . i cannot certainly give lots of time to them. i needed something that can be alone for most part of the day . and can not be annoyed if i am not around for 5/6 days . ( foods will be provided to them in meanwhile either automatic feeder or someone will give it to them )

 

[ashraful]

@Ellend and @gavagai .
I tried to think about not getting a bird but one of the seller in the shop ( i went there for my turtles food) was telling about cockatiels being easier to keep. and what i read it seems like they will need around 2/3 hours of petting time. also they can live up to 30 year which is similar to my turtles so i can try on them .
So is that true for Cockatiels being less maintenance or the guy was just trying to sell ?
and how about sun conure ? will they be any good if i get a pair ?
and Indian Ringneck?

 

[Scott]

Welcome to the forums, thanks for joining! Sorry I am late to the conversation, but you have received some great advice from members!! I deeply respect your quest for information before purchasing a bird. Both you and the potential companion will be better served by deep conversation and thought!!

 

[gavagai]

@Ashraful: A cockatiel might work. My father had one and though he worked long hours and didn't have much time for her, she remained loyal to him. However he spent as much time with her as he could, even cooking and eating dinner with her on his shoulder (I would never bring a bird near a hot stove. He also rearranged her sleep schedule so that she'd be up in the evening and he could spend time with her, which isn't something I'd recommend myself.

When I first looked into getting a conure, I read that sun conures will hold a grudge if you leave them alone for more than a week (that article was promoting the better personality of gold-capped conures), however we would sometimes go on two-week vacations and mine would be really sweet and happy to see me when we got back. However if your "few days" out of the country is actually ten days, I'd ask how often you do this. My family would usually take one two-week trip, plus shorter trips for Thanksgiving and Christmas: three weeks away from home in total. The birds were fine with this, but we had a neighbor checking up on them and changing the food and water every day. I don't know what the limit is, but I'd say that three weeks was already pushing it; most people I've met with birds either travel less often or bring their birds with them.

Keeping two birds together often makes one or both of them hostile to you. On the other hand, I recently adopted two birds of different species who had been together since they were young, and they're still OK with people, but they're not nearly as happy to be around people as single birds I've had. They also tolerate much less attention than the other birds I had did. I usually can't have them with me for more than an hour and a half before they get antsy, and if I have the quaker alone, she usually wants to go back after half an hour.

 

[promethuschow]

Ashraf, sorry to hear that you won't be in BD around that time. I'm planning to be in BD. from Jan 1st to 12th for our batch 30 years reunion. Thanks for letting me know that there is a Safari Park now, I will try to visit that park. I definitely will let you know if I extend my vacation time in BD, and then you can visit my Congo African Grey ( CAG).

 

[Kentuckienne]

It's one thing to be out of the country and have someone feed your birds and care for them. But you said something about replicating the automatic feeder you have for your turtles, and that would not be acceptable for parrots. There's too much that could go wrong, and parrots have a much higher metabolism than reptiles, so being out of food could cause problems. It might even cause the bird to chew its own flesh. Things happen, and you could get into a delay and be a day or more late getting home as well. There are many things that could go wrong with a parrot in a day, and it would not be good to leave them unattended for so long.

 

[ashraful]

It's one thing to be out of the country and have someone feed your birds and care for them. But you said something about replicating the automatic feeder you have for your turtles, and that would not be acceptable for parrots. There's too much that could go wrong, and parrots have a much higher metabolism than reptiles, so being out of food could cause problems. It might even cause the bird to chew its own flesh. Things happen, and you could get into a delay and be a day or more late getting home as well. There are many things that could go wrong with a parrot in a day, and it would not be good to leave them unattended for so long.

Well actually an automatic feeder will be the last option. and i can make the feeder system myself. so it wont be very hard for me to make something which can give seeds or pellets amount of 200 or 300g. and for 7 days . higher than that would be problem. actually i found one solution for me being out of the house for long . My apartment has a manager who told me that he would be happy to take care of it while am away. but i cant make a larger cage for it in there . may be a 3 feet all around will be highest limit. but then it will be exposed to lot more noise and people ( car noise and etc )

 

[ashraful]

Ashraf, sorry to hear that you won't be in BD around that time. I'm planning to be in BD. from Jan 1st to 12th for our batch 30 years reunion. Thanks for letting me know that there is a Safari Park now, I will try to visit that park. I definitely will let you know if I extend my vacation time in BD, and then you can visit my Congo African Grey ( CAG).

Hmm i will be around till 15th i go out on 15th to 25th. and i would love to see it . BTW if u are traveling around with ur CAG can you tell me what are the procedure to travel around with it ?
or if i want to buy one from outside ? i heard they have passport . and if i can get from outside i can get a nicer looking one ( UK or USA i have 2 friends who comes once in every year from there )

 

[ashraful]

Keeping two birds together often makes one or both of them hostile to you. On the other hand, I recently adopted two birds of different species who had been together since they were young, and they're still OK with people, but they're not nearly as happy to be around people as single birds I've had. They also tolerate much less attention than the other birds I had did. I usually can't have them with me for more than an hour and a half before they get antsy, and if I have the quaker alone, she usually wants to go back after half an hour.

Well i think i should explain something more . I do a very routine job its a long job i go out at 8 am come back around at 10 pm. kinda too bored with everything at this point. i was making a computer case was working on it while working, it was around 1 and half year and its almost done ( i will add a picture but its painted already right now ) so i wanted to get something so i become a bit more busy with it . turtles actually its much affectionate, i mean they comes to the corner i stand always but for food source only . like i don feed them in the evening 2 of 3 of them dosen even get off their dock while i walk in the room . 1 come around because it hopes i give it food . Darn things are biggest beggar of food.
Anyway
The reason i wanted Eclectus were the color honesty . like that green and red combo with blue on them. is there any small bird on like that . i didnt find any cockatiel in around that colors . sun conures color was nice. Any recommendation on small birds of those colors.

 

[LeaKP]

Bravo for looking into birds! I'd suggest browsing the different species
Forums and their threads here on parrotforums. You'll learn a lot by doing so and possibly save you a lot of grief in the process. Birds are in my opinion the most amazing pets but owners need to do due diligence in owning them.

 

[gavagai]

@ashraf:
Unfortunately, if you're out from 8 AM-10 PM, there is absolutely no way a parrot is right for you. You'll be gone pretty much the entire time the bird would be awake, then will come back and wake it up from its sleep.

There are some lories which are red and blue, but lories require daily cage cleanings due to their liquid diet, and you usually need to clean off surrounding areas of the room as well. It's why so few people keep them inside.

But again, with your schedule you should really be looking for a nocturnal animal. They won't be as colorful, but compatibility with your lifestyle and personality is much more important than liking the colors.

 

[EllenD]

@Ellen: Are you sure that disease transmission is an issue for turtles? The classification "reptile" isn't a genetic one, and lizards are more closely related to birds than either is to turtles. That said, your point about not leaving the birds alone with them is a good one. Turtles are often carnivorous, and I read a story once about red-eared sliders who ate a cockatiel.

Also, I think your (admittedly impressive) efforts somewhat exceed the bare minimum requirements with regards to preparing food and cleaning cages. What I will absolutely agree on is that I let my birds out pretty much whenever I'm home, and rarely go anywhere I don't have to before their bedtime. I don't know if there's any real minimum for out-of-cage time (I'm sure it depends on the size of the cage, the species, and the individual bird), but pretty much everybody I've known with a parrot has been the same way: home as much as possible, birds out as much as possible, as much interaction as the bird will permit. That said, some birds are more independent than others, Poicephalus spp. in particular. I think that a Senegal with a lot of toys would probably be fine with two hours a day of hands-on interaction.

@ashraf:
If you're going to need automatic feeders, that means you're away too often to keep a parrot. And no, the toys will allow them to be distracted when you're away and make being in the cage more tolerable, but they still need daily attention. Many birds will be angry if you go on vacation for a week.

I'll respectively disagree with you full-heartedly about a Senegal being alright with 2 hours a day of interaction with its owner. And I do this as a current Senegal owner. Honestly he is the neediest bird that I have between a Quaker, a green cheek, a cockatiel, and budgies. It may be an intelligence thing, I don't know, but I know at least 2 other Senegal owners on this forum that agree they require an enormous amount of attention. I don't know where the idea that any of the Poicephalus species can be left alone most of the time, but it's just not true...Well, not if you want a loving, tame bird that you can handle.

Here's my question to the original poster: If you have to use automated feeders and can only "pet" your bird for 2 hours a day or less, and are having to spend all this time fighting for a way to be able to keep a bird, WHY DO YOU WANT ONE TO BEGIN WITH? Why do you need a pet at all if you are only able or at the least only WILLING to commit 2 hours of your day to it? I don't understand your reasoning at all. I'd be more apt to find a new hobby if I had 2 hours a day I needed to fill, not a living creature. The fact that you are actually even considering using automatic feeders for a parrot is absolutely ridiculous, I'm sorry but it's just insane that you're even considering this. You're not listening to anything that anyone here has to say. You say "I'll use automated feeders, they can have the whole room but still would have to share it with the turtles, and give pets for 2 hours, that's still not good enough?", and all I can think is "Why does this guy want any pet at all, least of all a bird?" No, it's not good enough at all. We've told you that you cannot only spend 2 hours a day with a parrot because this will potentially cause psychological and behavioral issues for the bird, we've told you that they can't be kept together with turtles for health reasons and safety reasons (yes to the member who questioned whether or not parrots can contract disease from turtles, look it up), we've told you the parrot should be kept in your main living room where you usually are, and on and on and on...And you totally ignore everything we say and ask "This isn't good enough?" No, it's not good enough. You can convince yourself all day long that you're qualified to keep a parrot and that your lifestyle and living situation or what you're willing to give up (nothing apparently) to keep a parrot happy and healthy is "good enough", but just you asking if "This isn't good enough" is a huge red flag that you should not have a pet bird. It should not be a question of "Good Enough" but rather you should be trying to do too much.

Turtles were the correct pet for you, they are independent creatures, and if you have a nice setup for them then they're happy. Again, I have absolutely no idea why you want a pet bird to begin with, it seems to me that you want what you want no matter what harm it does to the poor bird you lock in a room alone with carnivorous, aquatic turtles for 23 hours a day. Let me assure you that it soon won't matter if you even spend your prescious 2 hours a day with whatever parrot you get, because "petting" will not be something you'll be able to do anymore anyway. If you lock a bird away in a room of your home where the bird can hear you but never see you, with turtles that will potentially terrify it or worse, hurt it, and that poor bird only sees you for 2 hours a day, most likely less, especially if you get automatic feeders because then you won't even have to walk in the room, you're cute little baby parrot that was purchased as a hand-raised, tame bird is going to turn into an attack bird that won't let you anywhere near him. That's what happens, and this is what we're all trying to tell you. People with your schedule and your amount of time to spend with the parrot they just have to buy are the reason there are thousands of parrots in rescues and shelters. The tame baby birds are ignored, neglected, and most of all they are taken for granted. Their owners (buyers) just assume that they'll be fine and that they'll stay the way they are, then after a few months, when they start to bite and become aggressive they try to figure out why! They just can't understand why their sweet little parrot has turned into a monster. Then they eventually drop the bird off at a shelter, usually after trying to sell it for the money they "have in it" with no luck because no one wants an aggressive, biting parrot. Please remember everything we said to you when you're in this situation.

Parrots are not decorative furniture to be fed automatically on timers by a machine. They are also not simply entertainment for you, ready on demand for you whenever you decide you might like to "pet" them again. If you only have 2 hours a day or less to spend with ANY pet, not just a bird, but ESPECIALLY A BIRD, and have to consider using automatic feeders and such, that should tell you that you are not in a position right now to go and selfishly buy a pet, especially not a parrot. It's selfish entertainment for yourself, and you're very obviously not thinking about the welfare of the bird. You need to start.

Stick to your turtles.



"Dance like nobody's watching..."

 

[EllenD]

I just saw your 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. work schedule, along with you finally admitting you want a bird to entertain yourself because your turtles aren't "cuddly" or "affectionate". Well a bird won't be either sir, not to you or anyone else if it's left alone from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. They need 12-14 hours of sleep per day, so this means YOU would spend ZERO time with them. Not a cockatiel, not a budgie, not any bird at all! They are not toys to entertain you, that you can pet for a few minutes and then neglect. GET A NEW HOBBY! I can't believe you said you were "almost finished with your project of a year building some computer thing, so now you want something new to occupy your free time and keep you busy when you're bored"...You need a reality check.

"Dance like nobody's watching..."

 

[gavagai]

@Ellen:
I bird-sat a Senegal for a week and found she was much needier than the Senegal I gave up when I moved abroad, so I will concede that point. Not necessarily on the hands-on time they need (since I had my own birds to care for as well and they didn't get on with her, I probably averaged only two hours a day of personal time with her), as because she got upset when I was out-of-sight, and needed constant, non-stop scritches when she was with me, meaning I needed to do things one-handed at best. My Senegal was much more independent than her (he averaged around four or five hours a day on my shoulder but was OK with occasional scritches and maybe half an hour to an hour of play and cuddle time), but he may have been unusual. Also, both my Senegal and this one had people around a lot, even when they weren't being interacted with, which likely made a difference.

 

[EllenD]

@Ellen:
I bird-sat a Senegal for a week and found she was much needier than the Senegal I gave up when I moved abroad, so I will concede that point. Not necessarily on the hands-on time they need (since I had my own birds to care for as well and they didn't get on with her, I probably averaged only two hours a day of personal time with her), as because she got upset when I was out-of-sight, and needed constant, non-stop scritches when she was with me, meaning I needed to do things one-handed at best. My Senegal was much more independent than her (he averaged around four or five hours a day on my shoulder but was OK with occasional scritches and maybe half an hour to an hour of play and cuddle time), but he may have been unusual. Also, both my Senegal and this one had people around a lot, even when they weren't being interacted with, which likely made a difference.

Well you just made my point. O told the original poster that he needed to keep a bird in the main living room of his home so that the bird would at least be around people and around him, even if he didn't directly interact with it. I didn't know at the time he worked from 8.a.m. to 10 p.m. and it wouldn't matter where he kept a bird cage. Socialization is very important for birds, but the fact is that it doesn't matter if this person had a Senegal, a macaw, a cockatiel, a budgie, or a Cockatoo, his schedule doesn't work. I also have a cockatiel in my family, and she is one of the most loving birds I've ever had, but she was this way when I got her, her breeder did a wonderful job raising her. This poster admitted he was working on a project building something for his laptop, that it took him a year and a half to complete (no doubt because of his schedule), and this is why he wants a bird now, because he needs a new "project" to keep him busy when he wants to pay attention to it. But he obviously isn't thinking of a pet bird as a living creature with the intelligence and emotional needs of a 3-4 year old child, and that includes a cockatiel. He also admitted that his turtles are sliders (I've owned 2 red eared sliders myself, quite a while ago, I now have a bearded dragon) and they are not friendly to him unless they are getting fed, that they only come to him if he has food, they aren't cuddly and don't even notice him when he walks in the room. Well, that's how turtles are. So he thinks a bird will just be loving to him when it's convenient for him and be alright being alone in a room with lots loud noise, hearing people talking, and with 2 carnivorous turtles that would no doubt make the birds sick, as birds have a very sensitive immune system and do not ever cohabitate with turtles in their natural habitat. He just doesn't get it.

A cockatiel, Senegal, macaw, budgie, African Grey, Pionus, Lorie, whatever parrot you're talking about needs 12-14 hours of sleep to be healthy, and any of these birds that are in a living environment such as his with such little interaction with him or with people in general, and then add in that he's gone for weeks at a time on top of working daily from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. is going to become scared of people, become aggressive, become nasty and start biting any time he goes near their cage. And if he leaves them free in a room with turtles that are carnivorous and carry many bacteria naturally that will make the bird sick (because apparently he just can't put a bird cage in his living room) he's going to have a sick bird as well, with absolutely no avian vets near him. But we both know that the main issue is that he absolutely cannot keep any bird, not a cockatiel or any other bird, with his schedule. He didn't even know enough about parrots to know that cockatiels do not "come in the same colors as an Eclectus". He's choosing bird species based on colors! He hasn't researched them at all, that's pretty clear, but he comes on here and has every person tell him he should not get a bird and they then list the reasons why, and he still thinks that he knows better.

He's going to do whatever he wants to do, that's evident because every time he goes to a pet store he almost comes home with a bird or birds (I just had to laugh when he said he was offered a pair of Macaws at a good price, what a disaster that would be, he'd have 2 Macaws locked in a room with turtles 24/7 every day). So I nor anyone else can stop him from buying a bird, he just doesn't get it, nor does he care to get it, he is a child that wants what he wants and that's it. He is actually looking for a hobby or a new project to work on, not a living creature. But he's going to do what he wants to, and it will be only the poor, neglected bird that suffers. Well, that's not true, he will suffer too once his bird becomes horribly aggressive and mean to him, then he'll have turtles and a bird that he can't take care of properly and that will not pay him any attention except to attack him, bite him, and no doubt this will be the bird's fault I suppose.

I'm just advocating for the bird he buys, as it cannot speak for itself. Someone has to.

"Dance like nobody's watching..."

 

[rescuebird]

If you're determined to have a bird or birds, I suggest you consider an indoor aviary with a small flock of finches. You have plenty of room for a group if you don't go crazy and get dozens of birds, and there are a number of species that co-exist well. Lady Gouldian finches, in particular, are brightly colored and beautiful. They will live quite happily in an aviary setting with zebra or society finches, which are also lovely little birds.

An aviary of 1 x 1 x 2 meters would be of sufficient size that they would not need out of cage time, which would improve the problem with keeping turtles in the same room. Of course, your turtles really need daily cage maintenance and a thorough cage disinfecting at least once a week for their own sake - but that's a discussion for a different forum.

Finches in an aviary setting may not be quite so interactive as a parrot - though they definitely look forward to seeing the person who cares for them - but they are fascinating to watch. I suggest you get two Gouldian finches and no more than 6 society or zebra finches. If possible, stick to all males to prevent squabbling over mates and nesting sites. If your cage has a solid floor, you can probably also add a couple of button quail or diamond doves - but if so, reduce the number of zebra/society finches to four.

Provide lots of perches at varying heights at each end of the cage, but be sure to leave open space in the center for flying. Unlike parrots, finches don't climb cage wire... they have to fly from perch to perch. Provide numerous food and water stations as well, as some birds can become territorial. All finches appreciate areas to hide in their cage, whether made up of live or artificial plants, "huts" made of fabric or basketry, or simple bird boxes. It's best to have more hiding spaces than birds. Typically speaking, the more such places there are, the safer the birds will feel, and the less time they'll spend hiding. Please be sure to research any live plants you include to be sure they are safe - the birds will nibble at them if not eat them entirely.

If you google "mixed species finch aviary" you should find lots of pictures to show you just how amazing such a setup can be. Although you would still need someone to come in to change the water and replenish food when you travel, they would be much better suited to your situation.

 

[gavagai]

I fully agree that his schedule is completely inappropriate for any parrot; I already said as much. That said, he's gone back to wanting a bird several times after admitting that it wouldn't work with his schedule. While parrots clearly won't work with his schedule, I need to give him credit for trying to figure out how to make them work before getting one, which is something that most people who want inappropriate birds don't do. Unfortunately for him, there's just no way he can have a parrot right now. But it would be nice if we can help him figure out what he's looking for, and if possible direct him to a more appropriate pet.

@ashraf:
You've mentioned wanting birds of prey; owls include the only nocturnal bird species which are widely kept in captivity. They don't need interaction to thrive, however they're not affectionate the way parrots are. (Smaller owls can be somewhat playful, but they're also much more work than you could handle with your schedule.) If you really want a bird; I'd suggest going to a falconry forum and asking about owls, but be aware that they may also tell you they're not an appropriate pet; I'm fairly certain they need more space than you can offer them, and the disease concerns with your turtles still apply.

My suggestion if you want an affectionate animal who works with your schedule is rats. They're nocturnal, short-lived, and if you keep them with other rats can get by on limited attention. The big drawback is that no matter how often you clean their cages, they will smell, which is why I've never had them. Hedgehogs are also a possibility, requiring no attention, but are much less cuddly. This is the tradeoff with any animal: if it likes to cuddle you it also needs your attention.

 

[rescuebird]

My suggestion if you want an affectionate animal who works with your schedule is rats. They're nocturnal, short-lived, and if you keep them with other rats can get by on limited attention. The big drawback is that no matter how often you clean their cages, they will smell, which is why I've never had them. Hedgehogs are also a possibility, requiring no attention, but are much less cuddly. This is the tradeoff with any animal: if it likes to cuddle you it also needs your attention.

Im afraid I have to respectfully disagree with a couple points...

First, if he keeps only female rats and cleans their cage as they need it kept, odor should not be noticeable. Females don't scent mark as males do and can generally be potty trained easily. Their potty area does need daily cleaning or they'll stop using it - who wants to use a filthy bathroom, after all? The entire cage should also be cleaned weekly as well.

I've kept both rats and hedgehogs in the past and they all loved cuddling. While hedgies may require less attention, I wouldn't go so far as to say they require none.

What about a chinchilla? They're nocturnal. I've never owned a chinchilla, so I can't say much about their independence level.