Thinking of finally taking the 'plunge'

[Kiwibird]

Having my kitchen, dining and living room torn up and all the furniture scattered has a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶l̶a̶y̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶v̶i̶s̶u̶a̶l̶ ̶c̶l̶u̶t̶t̶e̶r̶...made me loose my mind completely. While at the pet store with Kiwi the other day, 'we' were dooming the fishies and I saw the little corydoras and was reminded of my aquarium idea again. I think when all is said and done, I *might* consider dredging out the abandoned aquarium that never came to fruition and gracing my newly renovated space with it. I was actually just down to deciding on my filter and then cycling it in when we were forced to move and once we bought this place, I just shoved it in the attic. It's not a large aquarium, 10 gallons I think but it is a 'higher end' rimless/frameless glass tank intended for doing an expensive nano reef setup in and I had even cut some wood to build a base and hood for it before I abandoned the project.

My intention has always been to have 3 or 4 corydoras and *possibly* a betta in it. After much research, it seems some individual bettas do well in a 'community' tank and our local fish store (or at least several years ago when I last was in there) sells bettas already acclimated to a community tank, but not 100% sure on if I'll get one or not because what would I do with him if he did end up attacking the corydoras??? AqAdvisor puts 4 albino corydoras at 74% stocked and plus a betta at 83% stocked, both of which seem like a safe buffer from being overstocked. I do realize at some point, a larger tank upgrade will likely be needed as the fish grow. I have also considered getting one of the many smaller cory species like pandas or doing a bigger school of pygmys, though I don't think I can get pygmy corydoras locally and am nervous to order live animals online.

This would be my first time doing any animal enclosure with sand as a substrate in over 20 years. I have long avoided sand for any creature after my leopard gecko nearly died from a sand impaction when he was young. But apparently, these little corydoras must have sand or their little barbles can get hurt, so if I do this, I'll put them on sand and hope they don't eat it and get sick because I doubt there would be much I could do for an impacted fish. I also hope cleaning will be easier than I imagine with sand. I'll be doing artificial plants. I know everyone claims live plants keep the algae at bay, but I've experienced the exact opposite. In my childhood aquarium, I switched between live and fake plants (I had 0 clue on proper aquarium care back then and did 100% water changes weekly and scrubbed out the whole tank) and every time I added a live plant, algae would start to grow immediately. In the 10+ years I've maintained my newt vivarium, I have had 0 algae blooms and my newt is still very much alive, healthy and active and his water always crystal clear despite being in a sunny area. I'll have to check the condition of the silk plants I bought for this initially as they have been in an attic for several years, but I am careful to only choose 'silk' or plastic plants that are soft and non-abrasive.

As we do have extensive repairs and renovations being done which likely won't be complete until at soonest September, my target to set up this tank (IF I decide to do so) would be start to cycle it in in late October. Even if I don't ultimately end up doing it 'right now', still fun to think about it seriously again

 

[chris-md]

Hey best of luck to you. I tried keeping a 15 gallon aquarium and despite every effort it was a constant algae mess. I wound up giving up after the last fish died and decided it was too much of a headache

 

[ChristaNL]

LOL, go have fun!

The 'albino's' are probably the Corydoras paleatus so they will be fine in a medium sized tank.
37 litre-ish (your 10 gallon) is really small.

Those tanks are usually reserved for shrimps, decorative snails (yup, the upcomming hype of the past few years: fun to look at and some are actual algae-eaters) and the so called 'nano-fish'.
(google has a lots of those)
There are comple lists (being revised and corrected all the time) of fish that survive and even thrive in smallish tanks.

Know you waterquality (Ph, GH, Kh etc.) and pick a few nice species
(being dutch I shudder at the thought of plastic plants, but well .. when in Rome...)

 

[Kiwibird]

Hey best of luck to you. I tried keeping a 15 gallon aquarium and despite every effort it was a constant algae mess. I wound up giving up after the last fish died and decided it was too much of a headache

I've heard that first time aquarium keepers using a really small tank can go that way pretty easily. I'm really hoping though if I under stock, use R/O water (I already do for my vivarium), am meticulous about water parameters and go with a UV filter and do artificial plants I might be able to swing it. I do have some experience in keeping small aquatic setups successfully. My newt's vivarium is a 10 gallon half moon tank (very tall) and it only has 5 gallons of water in it since the newt is only semi-aquatic and requires 'land' too. I've had him for over 10 years, moved 3 times, placed in areas with varying degrees of sunniness, this is his second tank (I also had him in a standard 10 gallon rectangle before successfully) and I've never had algae once. The glass on the outside tends to get dirtier than the glass on the inside under the water line. Fingers crossed for the same 'luck' with the new tank:51: I could be speaking with arrogance and naivety that I am up for the added challenge of starting out with a small tank

 

[Kiwibird]

Here's my current tank:

He is currently in the office until these repairs are done. It's not a super natural looking setup, but still aesthetically pleasing (to me at least) and my newt is always climbing in the faux plant so he clearly likes it. As newts can and will swallow small substrate, I had to use substrate physically too large to be swallowed and I kind of like the look of these uniform grey glass ones to natural stones. They're pretty easy to clean too as it's not a deep substrate layer. The water is always this clear, there is no algae anywhere in the tank, not even a light coating and this particular tank I've had around 4 years (with a similarly clean tank before for 6 years). This may be due to the fact my newt is a cold water species. I don't think cold water grows algae as easily, so I may be in for a surprise with a species that requires a heater and higher temps.

 

[chris-md]

I was pretty under stocked, 3 black skirt tetras for that large tank and it just went nuts despite water changes, algae treatments, cleaning and scrubbing, you name it.

I can’t wait to see what your new tank ultimately looks like. Love the current set up

 

[SailBoat]

Wait, what are you taking about!?!? Aquariums can be used for fish? Sometimes the huge World of an Amazon Snob can suddenly feel a bit smaller!

Looking forward to see what you create with this project!

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm reading with interest. Beautiful set-up. I once inherited a Siamese Fighting Fish. The Rb was frantically devoted to trying to get to him, not sure what his intention was. The fish, named King (as in King of Siam) lived to about 6 years. I think I could really enjoy more fish. Thanks for this thread.

 

[Kiwibird]

Wait, what are you taking about!?!? Aquariums can be used for fish? Sometimes the huge World of an Amazon Snob can suddenly feel a bit smaller!

Looking forward to see what you create with this project!

Reading your comment had me envisioning *attempting* to place Kiwi in an [empty] aquarium. Key word being "attempting". Nope, I think we'd better stick to cages/the whole house for the amazons and the aquariums for fish

 

[Kiwibird]

I'm reading with interest. Beautiful set-up. I once inherited a Siamese Fighting Fish. The Rb was frantically devoted to trying to get to him, not sure what his intention was. The fish, named King (as in King of Siam) lived to about 6 years. I think I could really enjoy more fish. Thanks for this thread.

Kiwi is also very intrigued by fish. He makes all kinds of strange noises when we visit the aquatics section of the pet store. I suspect he will like the new setup very much if I actually end up getting it up and running. While I don't think parrots want to 'kill' smaller creatures (cannot speak for the RB on this one though), I do think they more want to 'play' with them.

Are you planning to et up a fish tank now? Keep us posted if you do!

 

[Kiwibird]

Bumping up hoping for some of our fish people to chime in. I am actually thinking about trying plants for the first time. I plant to do a sand substrate and then in lieu of decorations, use a (food safe) bowl as a planter so they have like a 'grass' area with a 'carpeting' plant. Then I think I'll include some of those marimo balls and a few small floating plants as well. I would appreciate some suggestions on types of plants. I don't think I'll be messing with the whole CO2 thing, but the light fixture I'm looking at is suitable for plant growth in freshwater tanks, I would use a plant substrate in the planter and could probably learn to add a fertilizer, if necessary.

Also, species wise, as much as I love the albino corys, I think dwarf corydoras (corydora habrosis) or pygmy corydoras (corydora pygmaeus) are a more appropriate size for the tank. I'm sure the bigger guys would survive in there, but they just wouldn't have as much room as a smaller species and instead of enjoying the aquarium, I would probably just feel guilty about it (and realistically have no where to put a larger tank I could upgrade to in the future). I'm also thinking of adding a few of those brightly colored shrimps as well and keeping it at that.

 

[MonicaMc]

Tanks with algae.... either the too much nutrients in the water or too much light. RO water is devoid of nutrients, so the only nutrients that would go in would be from waste and food. This helps to reduce algae...

In such a small tank, I'd recommend a larger school of pygmy cories. (they do best in groups of at least 6-9 anyway... and bigger cory species would be too many!) You can always see if an LFS could special order some in for you. I did manage to find pygmy cories, but they were 2 hours drive away... then an LFS started carrying them, but for more than twice the amount! Can't bring myself to spend that much on them.... a different LFS says they can also get them in and for a cheaper price, too! Not as cheap as the store 2 hrs away, but also not double the price or more!



As a general rule of thumb, RO water is not healthy for fish or plants... you want GH and KH. You can use Seachem Equilibrium for GH and then you'd need something for KH... or you could use Aquavitro Carbonate (KH) and Mineralize (GH). Many possibilities out there for GH and KH!


Plants - go for easy growth. Anubias, java fern, crypts (if they melt, it's okay! They'll grow back!), moss (well, christmas, peacock, or others recommended over java moss), swords, etc.


I would recommend staying away from any product that buffers or changes the pH (besides a KH product meant to add KH to RO water!). There are several plant substrates that do buffer the pH down into the acidic range that can and will lower the pH and KH. If you don't plan on using it for the entire tank and using just sand, then you want KH. If you use a buffering substrate which lowers the pH, then you don't want KH.



If you want shrimp, then it's even more important to know GH and KH. There are *many* great shrimp remineralizers on the market now and depending on the species you want to keep will depend on what parameters you need. Some species do fine on sand with GH and KH with a high pH where-as others need a buffering substrate, acidic water, low GH, 0 KH and very stable parameters! TDS meter with calibration solution highly recommended!

Most fish species are likely to eat shrimp or shrimp babies though... but pygmy cories should be okay!



And I highly recommend doing the "fishless cycle" when setting up the tank for inhabitants!

 

[Kiwibird]

Thanks Monica for the great advice! I take it you keep shrimp and fish?

I currently use Seachem Replenish for R/O water but it seems in a tank with live plants I would need to use a different product called 'Equilibrium' for a planted tank instead. I still need to learn a bit more about the environmental conditions required for the fish and plants and possible shrimps. This kind of tank will seemingly need a rather scientific approach to thrive. I am planning to do a fishless cycle as well as give the plants some time to grow a little bit so the fish aren't dumped into a sparse tank.

As for sourcing the fish, the fish store down the street from the bird store has (or at least had) dwarf corys recently according to their website. Whether they will still have them by the time I'm actually ready to buy them in a few months is a different story, but hopefully they would be able to get them in special. I have also seen them sold online.

For inspiration, I like this tank quite a bit:

Here is what I have thus far for my tank, though beyond the equipment being on the left, layout of the bowls and cave may change:

Both bowls are food/dishwasher-safe stoneware which should be fine for an aquarium. The abstract cave I got on Etsy and this seller makes decorations specifically for aquarium use. My original plan was 3 corydoras and a betta, the cave being for the betta. I'm actually not sure now if I'll use it in this tank as I don't believe corydoras require this style of shelter and may just prefer more sand/open space to swim. The smaller ones I'm now looking at also sound more like they seek plants for shelter than caves and crevices... Anyone know more about that or which would be preferable to these fish? More open sand/swimming area or a more cave like hiding area?

This is the lamp I plan to get. It claims to be suitable for growing plants in freshwater aquariums: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YXYO1...olid=1CZYV9UV9WKC3&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it In general, I'm not terribly knowledgeable on plants, much less aquatic plants... My thought is to do a shallow bed of sand on the bottom than I'd do a bigger plant in the small bowl (like a java fern) and a carpeting plant or grass in the large bowl. I think Fluval has a growing medium and I could weight it down with gravel or just let it be. The other plant related question was about adding dried capatta (?) leaves or a tea extract from them for their tannins. I read that corydoras and shrimp both benefit from this.

 

[MonicaMc]

More or less, I do... but I'm no expert or anything when it comes to fish! I'm more interested in the shrimp side of things! Haven't really gotten into the plant side of it though... there are plants, but nothing that is really high maintenance or high end. Hardly *ever* use fertilizers and no CO2.


If you decide to keep shrimp (and a small species of fish with them), then go for a shrimp remineralizer. Salty Shrimp GH/KH is perfectly fine for the cheap Neos ("cherry shrimp" being the most common) There's also SL-Aqua, Aqualex, Shrimp Nature, Shrimp Lab, and so many others! Just make sure you get something that adds GH and KH.

https://www.discobee.com/blogs/news/17030569-dwarf-shrimp-water-parameters


That is quite an interesting looking setup. I wonder what the person does for water? Based on the plants, it does not appear to be a "simple" setup. It might not be high end either, but perhaps somewhere in the middle. I see sand (inert) and there's probably buffering substrate inside the bowl. With the right setup, it can work. Wrong setup, and you'll have unstable water parameters.


The pygmy cories, if they feel threatened, will hide anywhere! This includes in gravel if you have large gravel pieces that leaves gaps for fish to swim through. They do enjoy "perches" within the aquarium though, so moss ledges (tons of 3D printed ones!) or plants with large enough leaves could easily work as well. I have 3 pygmy's right now (started out with 1... she was the last surviving one of a group and got her with some shrimp! Only thing I went to pick up was a tank!) but trying to increase the group size.


The light may be more than you need, but it could work. You may want to consider a timer, so if you ever have an algae issue, you can set the light to come on for 3-4 hours in the morning, off again for 2-4 hours and back on for 3-4 hours. Plants are much better equipped to take up nutrients than algae does, so having a light setting like that can help to reduce algae and stop it from growing. (if there's not too many nutrients in the tank). That said, algae should be a primary part of a shrimps diet! And many algae wafers are not actually algae based, but algae infused... instead of being the first ingredient, it's easily the 5th to 9th ingredient!

Most carpeting plants are "high end" meaning that they require ferts/CO2 to really thrive. Whatever you do, *DON'T* buy seeds! Hairgrass, monte carlo or maybe glosso might be okay in low tech tanks? I haven't tried carpeting any of the tanks I have so no experience there. I just know that some are high maintenance and require CO2/Ferts in order to thrive. Without they might just die.

I "know" about the Fluval growing medium, but no experience with it and I haven't really heard many other people talk about it.



Overall though, if you get the water parameters right and choose the right plants and substrate for what you want, I'm sure you can make it work!



The catappa leaves? Also known as Indian Almond Leaves or IAL. Yes, these can be good! If you want tannins, you can also use alder cones. These come from alder trees and not to be confused with pine cones from pine trees.



Something else to take into account would be a filter. You could do either a HOB with pre-filter sponge or a sponge filter, if keeping shrimp.

 

[ChristaNL]

Nice advice form Monica on the plants etc.. those species work almost everywhere.

Apart from water-quality, the one thing that limits the choice of plants is: light!
Unfortunately: the more modern the tank the sucky-er the (LED) provided amounts of lumen seem te be.

"Scaperstanks" -> aka devoted to growing gorgeous underwatergardens usually have tripple of more the amount of light than the commercially available ones (you can always modify)

These guys make scarily great tanks: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/
( and of course there a a zillion forums like https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ and https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/ to name but a few )


(and you cannot have shrimp/ planted tanks without looking at Amano - unfortunately he passed away a couple of years ago)

A cave-like stucture wil be appreciated by the shrimps as a safe haven when they burst out of their shell and are soft and vulnerable for a while.

Oh- you can always as people to sent you cuttings/weedlings by mail (quite usual here) - you get a lot of variety that way and usually it the stuff they would otherwise throw away.

Be carefull with floating plants as they 'steal'/ block the light for the others.
Saying that, everything that has the name beginnen with "java" will grow (slowly) in almost darkness of course.

Just ask your petshop who their suppliers are, and what fish (and plants) they can order in - it may surprise you! There are far more species availble than on display. Usually because they don't have much space in the shop, and most fish don't look so good when stressed.


Anyway- start at the beginning: https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/how-to-become-a-pro-aquascaper

always sticky-worthy (although you probably already know most of it)