the morality of owning a parrot !

[Betrisher]

I have a pair of Alexandrines and they lived freely inside my house until recently when we began renovating. Now, they must live outdoors in an aviary until all the work is finished. My Galah, Dominic, lives on top of our fridge, since he rarely flies and is happy enough to stay put and play on his playgym, which is nearby.

When my birds are inside, I just watch them. I have 'birdproofed' the house as far as I can. That means getting rid of or hiding all dangerous objects, like power cables or poisonous plants and making sure all electrical devices are switched off and covered. All my windows have holland blinds on them and I used to pull these down to cover the windows when the birds were new. Since then, I have shown the birds all the windows and mirrors in the house and they know not to fly into them. In fact, we've only had one such incident which happened very early on when the birds had first arrived. They fly very strongly and acrobatically around my house because they know it well and have confidence.

My biggest worry is that we have two cats and a young dog. The cats know the birds are off limits, but that doesn't stop them watching closely for any opportunity to pounce. They have to be shut outside when the birds are loose in the house. The dog is not a problem, but I do worry that our old Dominic might find himself on the floor one day and the dog's curiosity might get the better of her. Other than that, I think my birds are perfectly fine indoors. They love having a shower and hanging out on their playgym and, most often, just sitting on me and whispering in my ears. They are extremely loving and confiding, although like most ringnecks they don't like being touched or handled.

I absolutely understand your misgivings about the morality of keeping birds in cages. I struggle with it myself as birds were born to fly, not be confined in human habitations. Certainly, any bird hatched within the pet trade needs a good, safe and loving home. If you can offer such a home, go ahead and get your bird! It's not hard to make a lifelong companionship with a bird or two or three!

I do hope, though, that the keeping of birds as pets eventually dwindles out. Birds really do belong in the sky and I become more and more convinced of that as I watch mine zooming through the house as if it were a rainforest.

PS. My personal feeling is that birds ought to be kept in male/female pairs so they can experience Life to the fullest degree possible. My pair mates, but does not nest because I don't provide nesting materials for them. Many will disagree with my point of view on this and you must make up your own mind after thinking about it. My Alex pair is bonded strongly to me and to each other - I wouldn't have it any other way!

 

[olgalednichenko]

I have a pair of Alexandrines and they lived freely inside my house until recently when we began renovating. Now, they must live outdoors in an aviary until all the work is finished. My Galah, Dominic, lives on top of our fridge, since he rarely flies and is happy enough to stay put and play on his playgym, which is nearby.

When my birds are inside, I just watch them. I have 'birdproofed' the house as far as I can. That means getting rid of or hiding all dangerous objects, like power cables or poisonous plants and making sure all electrical devices are switched off and covered. All my windows have holland blinds on them and I used to pull these down to cover the windows when the birds were new. Since then, I have shown the birds all the windows and mirrors in the house and they know not to fly into them. In fact, we've only had one such incident which happened very early on when the birds had first arrived. They fly very strongly and acrobatically around my house because they know it well and have confidence.

My biggest worry is that we have two cats and a young dog. The cats know the birds are off limits, but that doesn't stop them watching closely for any opportunity to pounce. They have to be shut outside when the birds are loose in the house. The dog is not a problem, but I do worry that our old Dominic might find himself on the floor one day and the dog's curiosity might get the better of her. Other than that, I think my birds are perfectly fine indoors. They love having a shower and hanging out on their playgym and, most often, just sitting on me and whispering in my ears. They are extremely loving and confiding, although like most ringnecks they don't like being touched or handled.

I absolutely understand your misgivings about the morality of keeping birds in cages. I struggle with it myself as birds were born to fly, not be confined in human habitations. Certainly, any bird hatched within the pet trade needs a good, safe and loving home. If you can offer such a home, go ahead and get your bird! It's not hard to make a lifelong companionship with a bird or two or three!

I do hope, though, that the keeping of birds as pets eventually dwindles out. Birds really do belong in the sky and I become more and more convinced of that as I watch mine zooming through the house as if it were a rainforest.

PS. My personal feeling is that birds ought to be kept in male/female pairs so they can experience Life to the fullest degree possible. My pair mates, but does not nest because I don't provide nesting materials for them. Many will disagree with my point of view on this and you must make up your own mind after thinking about it. My Alex pair is bonded strongly to me and to each other - I wouldn't have it any other way!

see thats the things that you said... are what i was talking about - with regards to morality :

you said :: I do hope, though, that the keeping of birds as pets eventually dwindles out. Birds really do belong in the sky and I become more and more convinced of that as I watch mine zooming through the house as if it were a rainforest.

that says a lot.. does it not?

my thing is that, i dont have an alex yet. my sister had.. he flew away and i have been debating if i should get one of my own.. because i absolutely loved him.. and it was just a matter of 10 days .. he became such close to me, while i was bird sitting him

PLEASE RESOLVE MY DILEMMA..

also, the otehr thing is - i ams SCARED about accidents.. it seems almost difficult if not impossible..

 

[henpecked]

I don't know,I'm not a good judge of right /wrong. I do know, I'm the center of my 44 yrs old companions life.That means something to me. I can't imagine that our relationship is anything other than what was meant to be. She's been with me longer than my wife,kids,almost as long as my mother. The relationship and quality of life is what you make of it. i think humans and birds can be good for each other. Mine has taught me much. I'm a better person for living life with a parrot.

 

[olgalednichenko]

I don't know,I'm not a good judge of right /wrong. I do know, I'm the center of my 44 yrs old companions life.That means something to me. I can't imagine that our relationship is anything other than what was meant to be. She's been with me longer than my wife,kids,almost as long as my mother. The relationship and quality of life is what you make of it. i think humans and birds can be good for each other. Mine has taught me much.

i just had to take care of my sister's alex for 10 days and he flew away and he taught me so much. It made me wanna get one of my own. But, because the previous alex flew away.. i was having moral dilemma .. do you understand?

 

[Ducatimom]

As far as morality is concerned I don't think there's really a right or wrong answer. I could honestly argue both points. I don't think hand raised/hand fed parrots will make it in the wild. And I've never been one to try and tame any kind of wild animal. However, as was mentioned earlier, weren't all the domesticated pets we have now at some point in their ancestry wild animals? Man has always needed that animalistic companionship. Someone there who never judges and loves unconditionally no questions asked. Whether that be in the form of a dog, cat, bird, lizards or what have you is up to the person. I don't think anybody here is going to tell you you are absolutely wrong in getting a parrot, but we can also see the other side of it as well. Ultimately it's up to you. If YOU want one then do your research and go out and find a breeder. If YOU think it's morally wrong then nobody here is going to judge you or try to argue with you.

As far as mating, I'm confused in what you are asking. Are you wanting a breeding pair, in which case they will lay eggs and have hatchlings? Yes they can and will mate if you have two that are housed together and they become bonded to each other. If you just want the one as a companion then there may come a time when you will have to dissuade any sexual acts he may make towards you because he will view you as his mate. That is also possible. Think of it as having a dog or cat (either fixed or intact). They will have sexual urges as well right? Doesn't mean you have to run out and get another dog or cat just so they can go at it together. They'll just be celibate and find other ways to release that tension.

 

[aether-drifter]

so, there is no one questioning the morality.. but I am wondering, IF i would be gettingmy own alex - for MYSELF ? in other words, will i be getting it just for my pleasure not realizing that while i love him and will love him and take care of him, he pobably wouldnt want to be inside some HOUSE ? - instead, would want to be FREE and fly off.. on trees, hop jump, chew, and MATE - with his flock and so on

PLEASE PLEASE share your thoughts

Olga, I agree with you...I personally don't really think parrots should have been taken from the wild to begin with. When you look at the captive life, compared to what you have described....how could it possibly compare? How could we be so selfish?

On the other hand, any parrot you are able to buy or adopt (in the USA at least, not sure about all other countries), is guaranteed not to have the option of being "wild and free." They were born into captivity, and in captivity they will stay. There are some older, wild caught birds still around in this country -- and while I definitely do not support taking birds from their native habitats -- these birds do not usually have the option of being returned to the wild, either. For better or worse, these parrots are all here to stay, and they need the best possible homes they can get.

Is what we can give them truly enough? Honestly, in some cases, no. It is no small feat to keep such an incredibly intelligent, social and emotionally demanding creature happy in a home environment. Of course they do not really belong in cages; they deserve to fly the skies, find a mate, and be with their own kind. Even those that were raised in captivity often do not cope with it well, because they aren't able to fulfill their natural urges and do what they would in the wild. One need look no further than the pluckers, the screamers, the self-mutilators to see what captivity can do to these amazing beings.

However, with dedication, commitment and enough resources, I believe it IS possible to keep a captive parrot happy, or as happy as they possibly can be under the circumstances. What I would suggest is:

- A HUGE cage, as big as you can possibly fit in your home, and tons of toys and activities to keep the bird mentally and physically stimulated. I would not feel bad about caging them when you are not home, as long as it is a very large cage that the bird can fully stretch out its wings in, hop around, and fly short distances. Something where they do not feel physically restrained is good.

- Other birds for company. Now, I am not necessarily saying cage them together...that can be dangerous...and not every bird will get along, even if they are the same species. But I think having another bird in a cage next to them, that they can see and "talk" to, really helps them feel safer and like they are in a flock. Since flocking is natural behavior, if you have to lave them alone for hours at a time (for work, for example), it is beneficial to them to have some company.

- At least a few hours of attention and out of cage time per day, even if they have huge cages. If they are human-imprinted, they will view you as their flock and want to be with you as much as possible. That being said, it is important to encourage and reward independent play so as not to reinforce extremely clingy or codependent tendencies.

- Do not clip wings. I know this is a personal preference or whatever, but I think it is much healthier for them mentally and physically for them to have their natural gift of flight. You can always work on recall training, and get them used to a harness so you can even take them outside with you! To me, allowing flight just lets them "be a bird" as they were meant to be, even though they aren't in their natural habitat.

I don't know how things are in India, but here in the US, we do have an overpopulation of parrots and plenty in rescues who need good homes. If you are opposed to parrots being in the pet trade, but want to share your life with one, a good option is to adopt a bird who is already here and who needs a "second chance" at life. It is possible to take care of the ones that are already here, without directly supporting the parrot trade.

I think the fact that you have qualms with keeping a parrot captive, actually means you might be a great "parront." If you can find a bird or two that need a good home, I say go for it. They are going to end up in a home no matter what you do, and it might as well be with someone who understands their needs and will try their best to meet them.

 

[goalerjones]

I caught my wife in the wild. But now it would be cruel to just return her there.

 

[Betrisher]

I think what people are trying to say is that, while it's a shame for birds to be kept in captivity, many are born and bred there. The fact is that a bird born into captivity cannot know how to survive in the wild and must remain captive for its own safety and survival. So, if you want to have a bird for a companion, make sure you get one that was bred in captivity and not a wild-caught one.

If you decide it's immoral to own a companion bird, there will be many less-suitable people than you who will buy the ones from the petshops and breeders and keep them in sub-standard homes. Why wouldn't you want to rescue such a bird from a sad life and keep him safely and happily with you for his liftime?

My own Alexes were owned by a very young girl who had no idea how to keep birds and who was effectively using them as a quick way to get cash (heaven knows what for!) I saved them from a life in a too-small cage with no access to the sun or other creatures. I'm glad I have them! I love them very dearly!

However, in the bigger picture, it saddens me that birds were ever domesticated and put into cages. As another poster said, though, what's supposed to happen to the huge numbers of caged birds around the world? SOMEone has to own and care for them. Why shouldn't you take one such bird and enjoy life together?

 

[Anansi]

Many here have already tackled the moral side of your questions, and some with quite a bit of thoughtfulness and eloquence. Enough so that I don't think there's much I could add to that.

As for your question regarding clipping, (a highly controversial and hotly debated topic on here, so congrats to everyone for keeping it civil!) it is, like others have said, a personal choice.

Personally, I keep my bird fully flighted. He LOVES to fly and doing so both stimulates him and gives him a lot of exercise. (This isn't to say a bird can't get exercise if not flighted. You would just need to take steps to insure that he/she does.)

But there ARE cons. You asked how we can completely prevent birds flying into things and possibly hurting themselves. The short answer is that we CAN'T. There is just no way to 100% guarantee that your bird will not ever fly into a wall and hurt himself. It's not much different than what occurs with a child. You teach them all you can and prepare them as best you can... and then all you can do when they go out into the world is trust them to do the right things based on what you've taught them. But we all know they are going to get bumps and bruises ANYWAY.

That said, there are a lot of things that you can do to minimize the dangers to your bird. First off, train your bird to fly. Give him/her training drills and get it used to flying all about your home. (There are tons of threads on this forum addressing how to do this. Some by me, and quite a few others by some very knowledgeable and experienced people on this forum.)

Introduce your bird to any mirrors and windows around your home. Repeatedly. These should all be covered, anyway, but accidents happen and we all forget things, no?

Get your bird used to noise. The more used to noises your bird is, the less likely he/she is to startle and fly off in a blind panic. It can still happen, of course, but the chances will simply be greatly reduced. (I have two boys, one 3 and one 6, who have dutifully, and unwittingly, taken on this aspect of my bird's training. Lol!)

Only allow your bird out of his/her cage when you are there to supervise. It's ALMOST impossible to completely bird proof a room, save one dedicated solely to the housing of said bird, stripped of electrical devices of any kind, poisonous plants, paints that can be chipped off and eaten, pieces of debris that can be ingested, etc... And in the case of some of the larger parrots, even that might not be enough. There are tons of stories of macaws eating through walls and even doors!

So basically, do all you can to make things safe for your parrot... with the full understanding that it might not be enough. (Even clipping doesn't guarantee your bird's safety.) Looking at things that way will, in my opinion and experience, make you even more vigilant.

And finally, here is a video that I found very helpful when wondering about the possibilities of indoor flight. I'd originally seen it posted in a thread by MonicaMC.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzyZGdMp9kM&feature=youtube_gdata_player]Parrot Training - Indoor Free Flying - DUCK!! Pet Parrot Free flight Skills and Myths - YouTube[/ame]

Hope that helps, and good luck with your decision.

 

[ShaunaR]

I am a new parrot owner so I would never claim to be half as knowledgeable as most people here. I am able to say that I too struggled with this very question for months before deciding I wanted to experience parrot ownership. The first thing I learned is that your parrot owns you just the same as you own him/her. They are so incredibly smart and complex it still surprises me! The parrots born in captivity have not experienced life in the jungle yet they still have the need to approximate many of the tasks normally needed for survival such as foraging. IMO we are responsible for providing as many authentic experiences as we can for our birds to ensure their mental health stays intact. It's much like walking a dog. Most people would agree that a dog needs to be walked for their health and mental well being. We plan to keep our bird fully flighted and harness trained. We purchased a "pac o bird" carrier and intend to take her camping, hiking and visiting friends and family. I feel very strongly that I am obligated to provide the best life possible for Pixie. In my mind this includes harness training and lots of out door experiences. Everyone defines "best possible care" slightly different and so there are differing opinions. What fits for some families/birds is a huge mistake for others. I have been told by our Vet that wing clipping is absolutely necessary to prevent losing or injuring your bird. For many people and their birds it's a good fit and the right decision for their lifestyle. You have to read read read and make an educated decision that fits for you and your family.
Good luck with your research! This forum is a great place to start!

 

[olgalednichenko]

I am a new parrot owner so I would never claim to be half as knowledgeable as most people here. I am able to say that I too struggled with this very question for months before deciding I wanted to experience parrot ownership. The first thing I learned is that your parrot owns you just the same as you own him/her. They are so incredibly smart and complex it still surprises me! The parrots born in captivity have not experienced life in the jungle yet they still have the need to approximate many of the tasks normally needed for survival such as foraging. IMO we are responsible for providing as many authentic experiences as we can for our birds to ensure their mental health stays intact. It's much like walking a dog. Most people would agree that a dog needs to be walked for their health and mental well being. We plan to keep our bird fully flighted and harness trained. We purchased a "pac o bird" carrier and intend to take her camping, hiking and visiting friends and family. I feel very strongly that I am obligated to provide the best life possible for Pixie. In my mind this includes harness training and lots of out door experiences. Everyone defines "best possible care" slightly different and so there are differing opinions. What fits for some families/birds is a huge mistake for others. I have been told by our Vet that wing clipping is absolutely necessary to prevent losing or injuring your bird. For many people and their birds it's a good fit and the right decision for their lifestyle. You have to read read read and make an educated decision that fits for you and your family.
Good luck with your research! This forum is a great place to start!

hi,

thanks a lot for your message

what is pack-o-bird?

thanks again

olga lednichenko