the morality of owning a parrot !

[olgalednichenko]

Hi all

I want to get a parrot, i absolutely love them. But, I am being constantly told that owing a parrot means taking away a parrot from his natural enviornment to a home.. forced to socialize with a human, as opposed to his own flock.. etc etc and so on..

i am being confronted with the morality of owing a wild thing, which isnt supposed to be a pet to begin with..!


Can anyone share their thoughts on this ? I would highly appreciate your thoughts


thanks

olga shulman lednichenko

 

[Birdman666]

Well, I agree that we should not be removing any more birds from the wild, as there are plenty of captive breeding stock, and the rescues are overflowing with unwanted birds. What, are these birds now going to be denied the right to live, because someone thinks keeping them is unethical?

Dogs and cats were wild once too...

Captive bred birds do not have the abilities of their wild cousins. They generally do not have a flock. They are raised for the pet trade. They generally would not survive if released back into the wild.

So, as a practical matter, they are already here, and those that are tend to be generations removed from ever being released back into the wild. Further, with the rate of deforestation, the only parrots which may someday exist will be the captive birds...

If you get one, you are responsible for seeing it has proper care for life. That's my ethical thing... It is a lifelong commitment in my book. Learn how to peacefully coexist, train and socialize it, enhance it's life, feed and house it properly, etc. That to me, is the ethics of parrot ownership...

And my answer to those folks has been, if you believe strongly that it is unethical to keep a parrot in your home, then by all means YOU SHOULD NOT GET ONE...

Mine love me, and appear to be quite content in their environment. They get good food, clean water, shelter, attention and love, and don't have to worry about their lives being cut short by predators... I'd say they have it good.

 

[olgalednichenko]

Well, I agree that we should not be removing any more birds from the wild, as there are plenty of captive breeding stock, and the rescues are overflowing with unwanted birds. What, are these birds now going to be denied the right to live, because someone thinks keeping them is unethical?

Dogs and cats were wild once too...

Captive bred birds do not have the abilities of their wild cousins. They generally do not have a flock. They are raised for the pet trade. They generally would not survive if released back into the wild.

So, as a practical matter, they are already here, and those that are tend to be generations removed from ever being released back into the wild. Further, with the rate of deforestation, the only parrots which may someday exist will be the captive birds...

If you get one, you are responsible for seeing it has proper care for life. That's my ethical thing... It is a lifelong commitment in my book. Learn how to peacefully coexist, train and socialize it, enhance it's life, feed and house it properly, etc. That to me, is the ethics of parrot ownership...

And my answer to those folks has been, if you believe strongly that it is unethical to keep a parrot in your home, then by all means YOU SHOULD NOT GET ONE...

Mine love me, and appear to be quite content in their environment. They get good food, clean water, shelter, attention and love, and don't have to worry about their lives being cut short by predators... I'd say they have it good.

thanks, thats what i think as well.
One more question/issue - i dont want to clip their feathers ..I have a BIG house - ITS HUGE - and i dont want to cage him either.. But my question is - CAN i protect him and keep him WITHOUT clipping ?

thanks and i very much appreciate you taking the time to answer

regards

olga shulman lednichenko
https://lednichenkoolgashulman.wordpress.com/

 

[morpheus]

Hello Olga, I understand completely how the logic of mislead, ill informed people can spoil your desire for a parrot. Let me answer you points in the order you wrote them.
Parrots are amazing, social, intelligent creatures. Our desire to bond with, and be a part of their life is natural for us humans. I know the feeling of wanting to own and share your life with one of these beautiful animals.

I doubt you will be taking a parrot "his natural environment" as 99% of the parrots you would purchase from a reputable breeder were born and hand raised by that breeder. I do know there are horror stories about illegal poaching and inhuman transport of parrots from other parts of the world and I'd love to see that stopped now. I've seen the documentaries and read the articles and it is horrible.

Tell your friends that one can not "force" a parrot to socialize with humans, as a matter of fact, there are not many things one can force a parrot to do. In order to socialize with a parrot you must gain the birds trust, first and foremost. And then with love and compassion you can train you parrot to interact with you in many ways. That's the joy of having a parrot and the birds love and enjoy your companionship as well. Many birds seem to prefer human companionship over one of their own kind. The bond between human and birds can be very strong. Many parrot lovers free fly their birds outside... [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdC012Zvelk"]Teach a parrot to fly outside - YouTube[/ame]

....And what animal was created as a pet? All of our pets have come from the wild and have been domesticated. As long as you don't go to the black market for your bird, you will be getting a home raised, hand fed, beautiful friend for life and I'm sure you will both be happy....

 

[henpecked]

What part of the world are you in? Is the parrot your looking to get a native species? Here in the USA wild caught parrots are very rare, most have not been imported here since 1992 or earlier. The babies for sale here are hatched by breeders and not imported .

 

[Birdman666]

Clipping is a personal thing. I've done both. Mine are recalled.

But I have lost birds that were not clipped. I had one hit by a car. I had another eaten by an owl...

My CAG has gotten lost on three separate occasions, one of my amazons once, and one of my macaws got stuck on top of a three story building and refused to come down for several hours...

I had two more that got spooked by a hawk outside our window, and flew full speed ahead into a window and sustained head injuries.

And old joke: What do you call a parrot who flies into a ceiling fan?

A: Shredded Tweet!

So, now I keep them long clipped. They still retain limited flying abilities, but not enough to get lost or injure themselves. That's the trade off for being indoor birds in my opinion.

 

[Birdman666]

What part of the world are you in? Is the parrot your looking to get a native species? Here in the USA wild caught parrots are very rare, most have not been imported here since 1992 or earlier. The babies for sale here are hatched by breeders and not imported .

My lilac crowned is wild-caught and was imported. However, she is now 41 years old! And she was here, and pet quality, when I found her...

 

[ruffledfeathers]

There are definitely pros and cons of clipping and not clipping, so we all pretty much do what we need to do for our own lifestyle and situation. What has worked for me is not clipping and my bird is harness trained to go outside. But I definitely do keep him caged when I can't be watching him, because I don't want him to get hurt, or have an odd encounter with my dogs. (They like him and it is peaceful among them, but they are dogs and things can happen quickly.)


When I had my sun conure, I left her out of the cage a lot, even if I went out, and after a while I stopped doing that because I started to worry she would hurt herself.


But if you have a larger home, I would feel like I wanted to do a bird safe room, and probably have the bird used to being caged at least occasionally in case it ever happens (you travel or the bird goes to vet).


Just a few thoughts I had......

 

[henpecked]

What part of the world are you in? Is the parrot your looking to get a native species? Here in the USA wild caught parrots are very rare, most have not been imported here since 1992 or earlier. The babies for sale here are hatched by breeders and not imported .

My lilac crowned is wild-caught and was imported. However, she is now 41 years old! And she was here, and pet quality, when I found her...

I have about 10 wild caught/imported amazons, they are all in their 30s-40s. Not all amazons that have import(actually quarantine) bands where wild caught. Many are imported as babies but hatched in commercial breeding programs in their homeranges. matter of fact , not all wild caught amazon that where imported pass through quarantine stations and banded, i imported zons/macaws before the mid 80s that only needed a vet check from the country of origin (no band at all). I have a feeling the OP doesn't live here in the US and might very well be able to find wild caught babies where he lives. Lots of info we don't have.

 

[olgalednichenko]

What part of the world are you in? Is the parrot your looking to get a native species? Here in the USA wild caught parrots are very rare, most have not been imported here since 1992 or earlier. The babies for sale here are hatched by breeders and not imported .

I am in India right now. Its alexandrine, a native species yes.. Please tell me what that implies ?

thanks
olga shulman lednichenko

 

[khaiqha]

It's my understanding that it's illegal to have Alexandrines in India, but that many people do it anyway.

 

[olgalednichenko]

There are definitely pros and cons of clipping and not clipping, so we all pretty much do what we need to do for our own lifestyle and situation. What has worked for me is not clipping and my bird is harness trained to go outside. But I definitely do keep him caged when I can't be watching him, because I don't want him to get hurt, or have an odd encounter with my dogs. (They like him and it is peaceful among them, but they are dogs and things can happen quickly.)


When I had my sun conure, I left her out of the cage a lot, even if I went out, and after a while I stopped doing that because I started to worry she would hurt herself.


But if you have a larger home, I would feel like I wanted to do a bird safe room, and probably have the bird used to being caged at least occasionally in case it ever happens (you travel or the bird goes to vet).


Just a few thoughts I had......

I am in a large house, i dont care if my alex chews on my room furniture, but how do i protect him? i am scared because i havent gotten one yet, but want to.. and now i am reading about how alex can hurt himself, if he flies in the room and hurts himself against a wall ? is it possible ? or how he can electorcute himself ? - i didnt realize its possible..i will have a cage, but i wont cage him.. please answer my concerns, i really am thankful to you all, who have taken their time to answer


regards
olga shulman lednichenko

 

[olgalednichenko]

It's my understanding that it's illegal to have Alexandrines in India, but that many people do it anyway.

Yeah you are right alexandra and sister is illegal in India..

 

[olgalednichenko]

Hello Olga, I understand completely how the logic of mislead, ill informed people can spoil your desire for a parrot. Let me answer you points in the order you wrote them.
Parrots are amazing, social, intelligent creatures. Our desire to bond with, and be a part of their life is natural for us humans. I know the feeling of wanting to own and share your life with one of these beautiful animals.

I doubt you will be taking a parrot "his natural environment" as 99% of the parrots you would purchase from a reputable breeder were born and hand raised by that breeder. I do know there are horror stories about illegal poaching and inhuman transport of parrots from other parts of the world and I'd love to see that stopped now. I've seen the documentaries and read the articles and it is horrible.

Tell your friends that one can not "force" a parrot to socialize with humans, as a matter of fact, there are not many things one can force a parrot to do. In order to socialize with a parrot you must gain the birds trust, first and foremost. And then with love and compassion you can train you parrot to interact with you in many ways. That's the joy of having a parrot and the birds love and enjoy your companionship as well. Many birds seem to prefer human companionship over one of their own kind. The bond between human and birds can be very strong. Many parrot lovers free fly their birds outside... Teach a parrot to fly outside - YouTube

....And what animal was created as a pet? All of our pets have come from the wild and have been domesticated. As long as you don't go to the black market for your bird, you will be getting a home raised, hand fed, beautiful friend for life and I'm sure you will both be happy....

hey , thanks for the message and what a great video )


actually the story is this.. my sister had an alex... and she left and i was pet sitting.. he used to lightly bite me and not let me pet him.. but all that change in 10 days and he started trusting me and i became VERY close to him.

He used to kiss me, snuggle with me and so on..

But unfortunately, maid came and she put him outdoors and he flew away.. it just happened 3 days ago. i have been heart broken since then and i have been wanting to get one of my own..

but people - mostly in attempts to console me - are saying things like - its his natural desire to fly and he would be happy and he flew away.. he would have met his flock and so on.. alongside, saying that he wasnt meant to be caged, that no one likes to be caged.. and its best that he flew away.. we ALL loved him and terated him him outmost care, including hiring a maid to take care of him, ona daily basis for at least 2 hours while family was at work.. and then he was seldom caged, only at night ...

so, there is no one questioning the morality.. but I am wondering, IF i would be gettingmy own alex - for MYSELF ? in other words, will i be getting it just for my pleasure not realizing that while i love him and will love him and take care of him, he pobably wouldnt want to be inside some HOUSE ? - instead, would want to be FREE and fly off.. on trees, hop jump, chew, and MATE - with his flock and so on

PLEASE PLEASE share your thoughts

thanks
OLGA SHULMAN LEDNICHENKO

 

[henpecked]

Hey olga, i won't get into the morality of having a parrot in your situation. I can talk about how my pet parrot feels. IMO she'd much rather be with me than flying wild thru the trees with others of her kind. Of course i've had her since she was a baby and she's 44 yrs old now. That's the amazing part about parrots, they adapt so well to living with humans. Most babies "imprint" on humans and many believe they see themselves more as human than bird. They take on a human mate and adapt .If properly maintained most would outlive their wild counterparts. They can adapt to learning to fly in the house. Most accidents take place when they are learning to fly. Crashing into walls,windows, learning to land, turn corners, etc is something they would also have to learn in the wild. many babies at this stage in life would also fall victim to predators in the wild. I think alot of the people giving you advice have never lived with a pet parrot and see the birds true feelings.

 

[olgalednichenko]

Hey olga, i won't get into the morality of having a parrot in your situation. I can talk about how my pet parrot feels. IMO she'd much rather be with me than flying wild thru the trees with others of her kind. Of course i've had her since she was a baby and she's 44 yrs old now. That's the amazing part about parrots, they adapt so well to living with humans. Most babies "imprint" on humans and many believe they see themselves more as human than bird. They take on a human mate and adapt .If properly maintained most would outlive their wild counterparts. They can adapt to learning to fly in the house. Most accidents take place when they are learning to fly. Crashing into walls,windows, learning to land, turn corners, etc is something they would also have to learn in the wild. many babies at this stage in life would also fall victim to predators in the wild. I think alot of the people giving you advice have never lived with a pet parrot and see the birds true feelings.

thanks

i have a FEW QUESTIONS:

1) I KNOW parrots like humans. Bceuase i took care of one. That i do know, but - dont they also want to have sex? - have a mate ? - and if so, is there a problem? because i can always get a female parrot also

2) i am worried about accidents that people talk about in their homes - HOW can we prevent them?

please let me know what u think of the above

once again, thanks

olga shulman lednichenko

 

[Dinosrawr]

The thing about parrots wanting to mate is if they see you as their mate. You can build a perfectly healthy flock relationship with your bird that doesn't include provoking their sexual desires - but that's not to say they won't have them. Bird DO get sexually frustrated, but they can normally solve it by pleasuring themselves. It's a bit messy and icky, but a bird's gotta do what a bird's gotta do

And birds are always prone to incidents in a home that isn't supervised. Chewing electrical cords, hitting windows, ingesting something unsafe... that's why it's best to always be WITH your bird when it's out. That's not to say you can't dedicate a room to them that's perfectly safe and bird-proofed. It's completely possible to go cageless, but it does take a lot of training and obedience from you and your bird. Teaching them how windows are dangerous, station training them, helping them learn what is okay to touch and what isn't okay to touch... the list goes on.

 

[olgalednichenko]

The thing about parrots wanting to mate is if they see you as their mate. You can build a perfectly healthy flock relationship with your bird that doesn't include provoking their sexual desires - but that's not to say they won't have them. Bird DO get sexually frustrated, but they can normally solve it by pleasuring themselves. It's a bit messy and icky, but a bird's gotta do what a bird's gotta do

And birds are always prone to incidents in a home that isn't supervised. Chewing electrical cords, hitting windows, ingesting something unsafe... that's why it's best to always be WITH your bird when it's out. That's not to say you can't dedicate a room to them that's perfectly safe and bird-proofed. It's completely possible to go cageless, but it does take a lot of training and obedience from you and your bird. Teaching them how windows are dangerous, station training them, helping them learn what is okay to touch and what isn't okay to touch... the list goes on.

1) for the mating - is there a problem, to have a male bird mate a female bird?

cant i simplt get a male and then after socialiazing get a female?

2) it seems its almost impossible to avoid accidents? because i wouldnt clip his wings and i didnt relaize that he can even hit his head against the wall !! or in a window ... SO, can i build an aviary sorta - a bird room? - it wont have ac though? - will that be ok ? - i have a HUGE house.. like 7000 square feet house and i am thinking of building a large - room on the deck? or on the roof ?

please advise

thanks

olga shulman lednichenko

 

[henpecked]

yes, most will want to have sex. Usually it's more of an issue during breeding season (month or so) . If you don't encourage it ,it usually isn't a big problem. I don't think there's much difference between male/female. Outside of breeding season parrots will sometimes want sex, it's a bonding tool between mates. I discourage it and use other bonding tools instead, preening,playing,etc. It's not so much the sex ,it's they want to know you still are their mate. if you want to learn how to better make your home safe,,, read through some of the older post in the forum, loads of good info here about bird safe products and hazards. Be an active member on the forum, you'll learn so much.

 

[olgalednichenko]

yes, most will want to have sex. Usually it's more of an issue during breeding season (month or so) . If you don't encourage it ,it usually isn't a big problem. I don't think there's much difference between male/female. Outside of breeding season parrots will sometimes want sex, it's a bonding tool between mates. I discourage it and use other bonding tools instead, preening,playing,etc. It's not so much the sex ,it's they want to know you still are their mate. if you want to learn how to better make your home safe,,, read through some of the older post in the forum, loads of good info here about bird safe products and hazards. Be an active member on the forum, you'll learn so much.

birs want to mate.. all living beings want that

i dont understand, why cant they mate with other parrot ? why cant a male alexandrine, mate another alex , a female alex .. can it happen?