the big question on whether to cage birds or not.

[Auggie's Dad]

I meant no insult. I do find it odd that you would make a blanket statement about the choices of most other bird owners on this forum and then feel like a victim of insult when the inconsistency of your view is highlighted.

There is nothing magically different about a cage and a bedroom. I've seen big cages that are bigger than small rooms. The issue isn't cages, but rather sufficient space. Yet your comment was condemnatory of any use of cages for any animal under any circumstances.

 

[Birdamor]

I meant no insult. I do find it odd that you would make a blanket statement about the choices of most other bird owners on this forum and then feel like a victim of insult when the inconsistency of your view is highlighted.

There is nothing magically different about a cage and a bedroom. I've seen big cages that are bigger than small rooms. The issue isn't cages, but rather sufficient space. Yet your comment was condemnatory of any use of cages for any animal under any circumstances.

Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion because, in mine, calling somebody a hypocrite is an insult. And my statement was not a blanket one or condemnatory of anybody else's. The OP asked how do each of us deal with the caging question and I simply stated that I had no problem with it because I don't cage animals. I also don't know where you find the inconsistency in that. Please elaborate.

And, believe it or not, there are more differences than just size when you talk about cages versus birdrooms. And, if you like, I can elaborate on that.

 

[madparrotwoman]

Can I butt in here?

I think it's us that have a problem with cages not the birds, well at least not my birds. Birds bred for the pet market are not the same as the ones we see flying free, our birds have known nothing but a cage within a house oh and mine go outside in their cages whenever possible. Argyle goes into his cage on his own when he feels like it and Beau is taken to his cage without putting up a fight. Their cage is indeed their sangtuary and their "nest."

Things have changed over the years in that most people's birds are let out daily. I think non-bird people assume that our birds sit in a cage all day with little or no stimulation or interaction, this is pretty much how it used to be in the bad old days. Times have changed thank God.

 

[Mel]

Can I butt in here?

I think it's us that have a problem with cages not the birds, well at least not my birds. Birds bred for the pet market are not the same as the ones we see flying free, our birds have known nothing but a cage within a house oh and mine go outside in their cages whenever possible. Argyle goes into his cage on his own when he feels like it and Beau is taken to his cage without putting up a fight. Their cage is indeed their sangtuary and their "nest."

Things have changed over the years in that most people's birds are let out daily. I think non-bird people assume that our birds sit in a cage all day with little or no stimulation or interaction, this is pretty much how it used to be in the bad old days. Times have changed thank God.

I think you're spot on there. Most who hear of a caged bird picture tweetie-pie in a tiny dome cage with a perch, seeds, water bowl & nothing else.

 

[apatrimo94]

Can I butt in here?

I think it's us that have a problem with cages not the birds, well at least not my birds. Birds bred for the pet market are not the same as the ones we see flying free, our birds have known nothing but a cage within a house oh and mine go outside in their cages whenever possible. Argyle goes into his cage on his own when he feels like it and Beau is taken to his cage without putting up a fight. Their cage is indeed their sangtuary and their "nest."

Things have changed over the years in that most people's birds are let out daily. I think non-bird people assume that our birds sit in a cage all day with little or no stimulation or interaction, this is pretty much how it used to be in the bad old days. Times have changed thank God.

I agree 100% as well. A few weeks ago, I was in Brooklyn visiting relatives. I was walking to local supermarket and I brought S'mores with me, a woman looks at me in awe and asks me why I have a parakeet out. She told me that birds were just decorations to sit in cages. Oy vey, so I explained to her and she was amazed and she said she never knew that birds would need interaction like that. Good thing times have changed.

 

[Aussie Ben]

I agree 100% as well. A few weeks ago, I was in Brooklyn visiting relatives. I was walking to local supermarket and I brought S'mores with me, a woman looks at me in awe and asks me why I have a parakeet out. She told me that birds were just decorations to sit in cages. Oy vey, so I explained to her and she was amazed and she said she never knew that birds would need interaction like that. Good thing times have changed.
I think you're spot on there. Most who hear of a caged bird picture tweetie-pie in a tiny dome cage with a perch, seeds, water bowl & nothing else.

Oh god, can't even remember how many times I have had similar conversations with people.

 

[Mel]

I agree 100% as well. A few weeks ago, I was in Brooklyn visiting relatives. I was walking to local supermarket and I brought S'mores with me, a woman looks at me in awe and asks me why I have a parakeet out. She told me that birds were just decorations to sit in cages. Oy vey, so I explained to her and she was amazed and she said she never knew that birds would need interaction like that. Good thing times have changed.
I think you're spot on there. Most who hear of a caged bird picture tweetie-pie in a tiny dome cage with a perch, seeds, water bowl & nothing else.

Oh god, can't even remember how many times I have had similar conversations with people.

I had a similar experience when I was at a cafe with Shadow, A woman remarked how nice birds are as they don't require much to look after them - I started a thread on the subject. I quickly set her straight

If we can educate the public then we are doing well

 

[boabab95]

I personally prefer to to have a cage than a full room, now, don't get me wrong here, if I had the space and the money, i would have a parrot room, BUT, i would still have ATLEAST 1 cage, if not more(depending on size of flock). This is for the exact same reason, others have said, it's like their own little bedroom, they sleep in the "small" cage like we sleep in our "small" rooms!

just my 2 cents...

 

[GreenCheek]

The only thing I see going wrong in a bird room, is with so many birds, couldn't there be serious fights?

 

[Birdamor]

It is true that things are slowly getting better for captive birds but it might surprise you all to find out that things have not changed that much. At least not yet. I have birds that have been kept in cages for years without letting them out. Birds whose muscle have atrophied because of it (I have a pair of ringneck doves I took in three months ago who still cannot fly well because of that and I have two lovebirds that will never get back the musculature for it). And, besides, people lie a lot. On birdboards, everybody lets their birds out for hours, everybody feeds well and everybody takes good care of them and love them to pieces but the birds we get in rescue tell a different story. And you, yourselves, have experienced having to explain basics to A LOT of people who had a completely different idea of what it means to care for a bird. And some of this people have or have had birds!

The problem with cages is that, precisely because they think of it as 'their' place, it promotes nesting behavior but it also negates flock dynamics, inhibits natural foraging behavior and creates aggression.

How many times have you seen in birdboards the advice given to chronic layers owners that the bird needs to be let out of the cage for hours and hours at a time to curtail the laying? And all companion parrot species are highly social but flock dynamics cannot take place when birds are kept separately. It is the constant interaction that does it and it cannot be achieved with birds in cages even if they are let out for hours at a time because flocks are supposed to be together 24/7/365 not three hours out of 24. And we can buy or make all the foraging toys in the world and I am not saying they don't help but it's not the same as having to fly from one place to another looking to get a different kind of food (in most cases, rushing to beat the other ones for that special morsel), something that it's easily done when kept cage-free in a room with flocks eating together. And then we have the mother of all the problems with pet parrots: aggression - which can be toward people or toward other birds. I have birds that were considered completely unadoptable and incorrigibly aggressive but the only problem they had was that they just hated been in a cage. One of them is a male senegal that spent ten of his twelve years in a cage (before he came to me, he is now 16) because he would attack people whenever he came out (it took me three years to 'convince' him to trust me and not to attack me). And I can name you a number of others that all it took was to free them from a cage for the aggression to disappear (male amazons and conures are the most common but lovies are up there on the list, also). Or screaming! I have an ekkie who was given up because he was driving the owner and the other birds crazy with his constant screaming but, after quarantine was over and he came out of his cage, he screamed for two weeks and never again. The other is cage possessiveness and aggression toward other birds and you all know how common it is to see on birdboards people asking for advice because their bird will bite them when asked to step up from inside the cage and I don't know a single medium to large bird that would not rush to bite another bird's feet when they happen to perch on their cage.

The lack of cages just changes their entire behavior. Take lovebirds, for example. Everybody says that it is very difficult to keep them in colony because of the females natural aggression but I have 22 of them and they all get along with each other without a single problem. And it's not as if they are all related or that they were raised together because they all came from different places. And cockatoos! I cannot tell you how many times I was told not to let my toos to mingle with the small birds, to keep them in a cage because, if I didn't, they would kill the little ones. I was told horror stories of toos nonchalantly reaching out and plucking a little bird out of the air as it goes flying by and killing it - one story was of a dove, not a small bird by any means. But I have a bonded pair of U2s living right alongside other birds of different sizes and they have never killed a single one of them. Quite the contrary, you should see how carefully they look where to place their big feet so as not to step on the little budgies that often eat with them out of the same plate! The only time I have trouble with them is when they are nesting because they don't like any other bird getting close to their nest but who can blame them?

We all have different beliefs, different lifestyles and different levels of resources but we all have one thing in common and that is our love for birds, and I think that if people who have or want to have a number of birds could see how well they all get along and how happy and active they are and how natural their behaviors are when living cage-free in a comfortable birdroom, they would all change their minds about cages. Zoo-keepers have.

 

[madparrotwoman]

All very well and true Birdamor but having birds fly free in your home is neither safe nor practical for 99.9% of people.

 

[apatrimo94]

Well, personally, I believe that putting your birds in a cage or room depends on how much money you have and what your opinions are of caging. If you have the money to build a bird safe room for them to freely roam in, then go for it (which is what i plan on doing when I get my own house) but if your money is tight, getting a cage is what's safe for the bird and your self, even if you don't believe in cages.

 

[SharonC]

There will always be different opinions on issues such as this. We (just the two of us)own a five bedroom house, with a huge family room downstairs, that hasn't been used much since our daughter grew up. My birds live on the main floor where I spend most of my time. They spend a few hours out daily, and the rest of the day, they are caged. They sleep in a unused bedroom, to ensure proper sleep. I have the room to allow cageless birds, but I wouldn't dream of doing so. I don't want to live in a house with birds pooping and eating wherever they feel like. For me, it's just not practcal, as I'd spend all my time cleaning up, and would have very little time for anything else. In my opinion, it wouldn't be healthy otherwise. Someone else may find this acceptable...If so, go for it! What I object to, is when someone feels that their way is the only way. Do what makes you happy...life is short!!!

 

[madparrotwoman]

There will always be different opinions on issues such as this. We (just the two of us)own a five bedroom house, with a huge family room downstairs, that hasn't been used much since our daughter grew up. My birds live on the main floor where I spend most of my time. They spend a few hours out daily, and the rest of the day, they are caged. They sleep in a unused bedroom, to ensure proper sleep. I have the room to allow cageless birds, but I wouldn't dream of doing so. I don't want to live in a house with birds pooping and eating wherever they feel like. For me, it's just not practcal, as I'd spend all my time cleaning up, and would have very little time for anything else. In my opinion, it wouldn't be healthy otherwise. Someone else may find this acceptable...If so, go for it! What I object to, is when someone feels that their way is the only way. Do what makes you happy...life is short!!!

Amen to that!

 

[antoinette]

There will always be different opinions on issues such as this. What I object to, is when someone feels that their way is the only way. Do what makes you happy...life is short!!!

I agree with you well said Sharon

 

[Mel]

What I object to, is when someone feels that their way is the only way. Do what makes you happy...life is short!!!

Well said Sharon. I don't have the $$ for a bird room and to be honest I'd rather have a large outdoor avairy - I have seen plenty here in Oz where there are all sorts of species living in harmony. they can enjoy fouraging in soil, natural sunshine, rain etc. My girls are part of my family so I have them in the living area with their human family in & out of cages.

 

[wildheart]

Things have changed over the years in that most people's birds are let out daily. I think non-bird people assume that our birds sit in a cage all day with little or no stimulation or interaction, this is pretty much how it used to be in the bad old days. Times have changed thank God.

The hard reality is that your statement only covers +/- 10% of pet owners.

I am most probable going to be hated after this, but, only if you misunderstand me.

I am 100% against the exotic pet trade, no exotic must be kept as pets, tamed and caged. Why do I say this if I have so many of my own?

Because in the real world only 10% of exotic animals are kept correctly. The rest are caged with improper diet, improper heat, hardly any socializing or nothing at all, they are depressed, bored and die after having a miserable life because they were kept for human entertainment only. The rest are still stuck in pet shops and flea markets, in small cages with almost no care at all.

Because of the pet trade many animals are almost extinct and some are extinct in the wild. Yes there are many breeding programs but this never would have been necessary if we did not take them from the wild in the first place. Today the black market is huge, it is a multimillion dollar trade and it is some peoples profession to set traps and catch exotics. These traps do not only catch what they are looking for but also trap other animals that are just killed and discarded. After being caught they are boxed and shipped, some survive it to the pet trade but most die.

My heart bleeds for that 90% and for this reason I would choose to have no exotics in the pet trade, to have all birds flying free, all iguanas high up in the trees and all the bearded dragons basking in the sun etc.

Forums are incredible places for the 10% who do care and to be honest, I did not really see different opinions on this or the previous 3 pages. People who constantly deal with the 90% neglected animals will always fight for their freedom. The other 10% will always fight because they know in their hearts that there is no better place than home for their own animal and I applaud you for that.

 

[madparrotwoman]

Wildheart, you obviously have the best interests of all birds and animals at heart and for that you deserve respect.

I have to admit it is only since I've owned my two that I have found myself wondering if it is in fact cruel to keep them for my benefit. I tell myself that they were bred for the pet market and wouldn't exist but for human requirement. I know that with me they are loved, cared for and have a good existance, they might not have that with someone less attentive. Of course you are right, we cannot EVER substitute their existance in the wild. I do my best for them, that's all I can do.

 

[HRH Di]

I am 100% against the exotic pet trade, no exotic must be kept as pets, tamed and caged.

If I'm perfectly honest with myself, I pretty much agree with you. Domsticated and tamed are two different things.

Our Jade and Ruby came from a breeder who's birds are healthy and cared for. She not only provides parrots to private homes, but also to some zoos. Every one of her birds - including the breeding pairs - come to her and love her.

That said, poor little Max came from a woman we found in the classifieds. He was in a cage with his brother (same parents, previous clutch) and wasn't plucked but picked on. He was severely clipped - fell like a stone if he tried to fly. He was on an all-seed diet and I doubt that he got any fruits or veggies. Looking back, I'm so glad we got him out of that situation and not just because we love him, but I know he's healthier, happier and he can fly now. And she thought she was doing just splendidly with her birds.

Although now is probably a more...responsible...time to be a parrot guardian since most of the birds are from breeders and not wild-caught.

I don't know how this is going to sound, but it seems that there should be some sort of application process before anyone gets an animal to care for...to ensure that the animal is cared for. Not that we need more regulations, we just need more compassion and education.

I can't think of a member of this forum who, I feel, doesn't do their absolute best to ensure their birds are happy and healthy. But I also agree that I think we may be in the minority.

 

[SharonC]

That same application form should be used for people having children....