Teflon Paint Ants and Birds.

[Talven]

So I'm looking for a way to keep ants out of my outdoor cages without submerging them in water. I was thinking of painting the legs of the cages with Fluon which is a Teflon paint. I was wondering if anyone has used this with any success or has it been avoided because of the Teflon?

I know that heated Teflon (In excess of 250 degrees C)can release fumes that can kill birds but as the Fluon is just going to be sitting there at air temps I don't see it releasing any dangerous fumes.

Fluon is used commonly to prevent ants or woodies(type of cockroach used for reptile food) from escaping enclosures/containers. I figure it should work to keep them out.

What are members thoughts on this?

 

[Ellie777Australia]

We occasionally have sugar ants (small 'rain warning' ants) inside and of course they love food stuff...so....we put heavy black plastic under the cage area and spray the legs with olive/canola oil. No ants in cages as a result. We just take the plastic out and hose off with major weekly cage wash down. Respray when cage and plastic dry and set up resumed. Always do daily wipe down of cage in between as well.

 

[LaManuka]

I don't know about the Teflon paint but the olive oil spray sounds GREAT! I'm gonna try that one this summer for sure!

Similarly if the Teflon/Fluon paint works I'll be giving that a try too - Brisbane is notorious for ants and they drive me a little bit cray cray :18_crazy:

 

[Talven]

Another option is packing tape and vaseline. Wrap the tape around the legs and smear with vaseline. Great for cooler places but not so much here during the hotter months. The vaseline melts.

 

[greytness]

I use borax, sugar and water solution. They go nuts over it. Within a few days of eating it and taking it back to their nest, they're gone!
Teflon paint sounds dangerous for birds to be around.

 

[LaManuka]

Vaseline doesn’t work on Brisbane ants, they just climb over the dead bodies of the ones that get stuck like it’s a bridge! Have also tried sitting the cage legs in water and the little blighters learned to swim!! Have also tried double sided sticky tape, same result as with Vaseline.

Have spotted canola oil spray at that German supermarket that may (or may not!) start with “A” for $1.58 Aussie dollar so will be giving that a try. My hubby did suggest flaming petrol but I said no...

 

[Talven]

The birds wouldn't come into contact with the Teflon paint and it wouldn't be getting heated so no fear of fumes. I can't see how it would be an issue for my birds.

If the ants you are getting in Brisbane are getting across water is there any chance they are fire ants? They can get across water no problem. Horrible invasive species that need to be eradicated from Australia.

 

[LaManuka]

Nope they’re just your common garden variety little black ants, they’re just really determined!

 

[Ellie777Australia]

Nope they’re just your common garden variety little black ants, they’re just really determined!

LOL...these same blighters started crossing my 'honey moat' hence the thought of canola oil spray to the legs of the cages....a year and a half later and it's still effective!...plus inexpensive and non-toxic.

 

[Talven]

Tried the Fluon on the cage legs 3 or 4 days ago. Painted it on with a cotton bud so very little was used. No noticeable odour but I did it in a well ventilated place outdoors. As it won't be getting heated above air temp I can't see it becoming toxic to the birds. There is no way for them to come into contact with it.

The ants that I am having an issue with are one of the red and black sugar ant species (THESE) A fairly large ant so I really don't want them anywhere near my birds.

If it turns out that using Fluon was a bad idea and I lose all my birds I'll update you. So far no signs of any kind of distress or respiratory issues. Birds are checked several times a day as I go past them to take the dogs outside.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Something I heard about but not tried.



https://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/does-diatomaceous-earth-kill-ants/


Other than that could you put something they like located somewhere else to attract them away from the cages?

 

[noodles123]

I would avoid the paint for a variety of reasons (if ingested it would be bad---plus, metal etc outside gets hot and sun breaks things down).

Terro ant killer works well if you are pretty sure that your bird won't eat the ants. It's boric acid basically. You can use it outside instead of in your house---I am not even sure that a bird could be poisoned by eating an ant that had eaten boric acid, but I would be cautious just in case.
I know that with some of the heavy-duty products (ant baits etc) that secondary poisoning is possible...

Maybe you could dig a moat-like perimeter around the cages, drop in some piping or gutter material and then put something in there to trap the bugs (without harming small mammals/birds)??? Hard to know...Teflon and paint are bad individually though---together it is a scary combination to me.

FYI- There are numerous cases of Teflon killing birds within the 300 F temperature range (which is lower than what DuPont quotes on the Teflon website). Also, as Teflon ages etc (as it would outdoors) the tendency for it to become unstable increases further. Growing up in the Midwest, I was legitimately able to fry eggs on the sidewalk, and egg-frying temperatures + Teflon have repeatedly killed birds.
I guess it depends on how close this would be to your birds and how open the area really is...

 

[Ellie777Australia]

Something I heard about but not tried.



https://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/does-diatomaceous-earth-kill-ants/


Other than that could you put something they like located somewhere else to attract them away from the cages?

The risk of even Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth, in powder form, is silicosis (in human and parrots).

 

[plumsmum2005]

Something I heard about but not tried.



https://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/does-diatomaceous-earth-kill-ants/


Other than that could you put something they like located somewhere else to attract them away from the cages?

The risk of even Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth, in powder form, is silicosis (in human and parrots).

Thanks hadn't heard of that tbh, but -



"Silicosis usually develops after being exposed to silica for 10-20 years, although it can sometimes develop after 5-10 years of exposure. Occasionally, it can occur after only a few months of very heavy exposure."

 

[Talven]

The painted area is a good 30 - 40cm away from the birds so no possible way it can be ingested. The area the cages are in is concreted so making a moat is out. It is mostly covered and only exposed to filtered (through shade cloth) afternoon sun. The metal it is on will only be able to get to ambient air temperature (Maximum of 45C).

There is a product called Coopex which is a residual insecticide based on permethrin which is bird safe. Unfortunately? I have native frogs and toads living in my garden so I can't use it or any other insecticide. It kills them too.

I have placed baits down to kill the ants but within a short while they are back as they are very common in my area.

Other than placing the legs in containers of water which isn't very effective I was running out of ideas. The spray oil suggested is also not possible thanks to my dogs. They would lick it off.

If I was wrong and my birds suffer for me using the Fluon that is something I will have to live with. For my situation it seemed to be the best solution. Take the risk with Fluon or take the risk that the ants will get into the nest boxes when there are babies and kill them.

I did look at all other options before I decided on using Fluon and researched about Teflon (Thanks again to noodles123 for posting links to info on it) and felt the risk was reasonable. I am keeping an eye on all the birds in the cages where it has been used and will post updates if anything changes.

 

[Talven]

UPDATE: So far so good with using the Fluon but it is chilly here at the moment so the Fluon hasn't managed to even get close to 20C.

No signs of any issues with the birds in the cages it was used on. Ants are out and about at night as they are a nocturnal species. No sign of them in the cages/nest boxes.

Expanding on Fluon "paint". It's more like water than paint so probably suspended in some sort of alcohol or petroleum based liquid. A very small amount goes a long way. I used a cotton bud/q-tip to paint it on. After painting my formicarium and the 9 legs of the cages I used around 5ml. Most of which ended up on my finger tips.