Swollen skin around beak

[DesibEllie]

Hi!
Our Mealy Amazon, Ellie soon to be 7 years old, has developed an itching skin irritation at the corners of her beak. We took her to an avian vet a month ago and was given a cream - "Flammazine" - to be smeared on her swollen skin twice a day. Although Ellie lets us touch the affected area, she largely refuses the cream to be applied, fortunately without her getting any worse seemingly. We have booked a new vet appointment in a week, asking for a sample to be taken and analysed, hoping for the cause of the irritation to be established without doubt, and at best, an alternative treatment suggested.
Being a large and strong bird, besides this condition she doesn't appear to be reduced or affected in her general behaviour, eating, playing, flying, calling out and socialising with us as before. Droppings look fine too. Her basic food is Harrison´s Adult lifetime coarse.

Does anyone at this forum have any knowledge or experience of this condition?
Bjørg

 

[Terry57]

Welcome to the forum to you and beautiful Ellie!
I haven't seen that before, but I'm going to tag our resident Amazon expert, he may have an idea of what this is. @SailBoat

It's good that it doesn't seem to be affecting her, and I hope they can figure out exactly what's going on at your next vet appt.
I'm glad you and Ellie joined us, she's a beautiful girl! Please keep us updated on how she's doing

 

[SailBoat]

Hi and welcome to Parrot Forum!!

I do not admit to being an Amazon expert, but more an Amazon snob as the learning never stops with this large and ruckus family of Parrots.

When I first saw your first few photos it appeared to be just molting along the edge of the mouth. The inflammation that the last photo displaces clearly indications that molting is 'likely' not the source unless she had been very actively using her claw to scratch the area.

Your Avian Vet's prescription of Flammazine was the correct starting point with or without taking a biopsy. Since you did not comment regarding a biopsy, I am guess none was taken. Understand, this is not a simple area to biopsy and choosing Flammazine was a proper first choice.

Just curious; does she work her beak on the cage bars, like cleaning or just rubbing? I ask, because It looks like her upper and lower beak as they come together appear a bit haggard and her tongue looks a bit red.

Regardless, the return to your Avian Vet is the proper direction at this point.

 

[DesibEllie]

Hi and welcome to Parrot Forum!!

I do not admit to being an Amazon expert, but more an Amazon snob as the learning never stops with this large and ruckus family of Parrots.

When I first saw your first few photos it appeared to be just molting along the edge of the mouth. The inflammation that the last photo displaces clearly indications that molting is 'likely' not the source unless she had been very actively using her claw to scratch the area.

Your Avian Vet's prescription of Flammazine was the correct starting point with or without taking a biopsy. Since you did not comment regarding a biopsy, I am guess none was taken. Understand, this is not a simple area to biopsy and choosing Flammazine was a proper first choice.

Just curious; does she work her beak on the cage bars, like cleaning or just rubbing? I ask, because It looks like her upper and lower beak as they come together appear a bit haggard and her tongue looks a bit red.

Regardless, the return to your Avian Vet is the proper direction at this point.

Hi SailBoat,

Thank you indeed for your confirmation of Flammazine as the most logical remedy for her. What is it normally used for? Fortunately we are making progress regarding her acceptance to having it applied.

After browsing avian deceases, without being able to conclude on or indeed exclude any cause for her condition, our worst fear has been it should be mite or fungous. In your answer you don't suggest either, which should at least indicate there are no obvious signs for those. Also her feet looks fine.

Your observation regarding her beak is interesting. She happily slaughters wooden toys, but doesn't bite the cage bars really. Will look at older photos to see if there has been a gradual, unobserved change to the edges of the beak.

Regarding the tongue it was always black at the tip, and fair or pinkish further back. Don't think it has changed really, but will check photos for that too.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Hi!
Our Mealy Amazon, Ellie soon to be 7 years old, has developed an itching skin irritation at the corners of her beak. We took her to an avian vet a month ago and was given a cream - "Flammazine" - to be smeared on her swollen skin twice a day. Although Ellie lets us touch the affected area, she largely refuses the cream to be applied, fortunately without her getting any worse seemingly. We have booked a new vet appointment in a week, asking for a sample to be taken and analysed, hoping for the cause of the irritation to be established without doubt, and at best, an alternative treatment suggested.
Being a large and strong bird, besides this condition she doesn't appear to be reduced or affected in her general behaviour, eating, playing, flying, calling out and socialising with us as before. Droppings look fine too. Her basic food is Harrison´s Adult lifetime coarse.

Does anyone at this forum have any knowledge or experience of this condition?
Bjørg

I looked up Flamazine and it's an antibiotic cream in a silver sulphate base and is used mostly for burn with bacterial infections. Her skin problem may be bacterial, fungal (would need a different cream)or not infectious (like contact dermatitis or allergic in nature). A prescribed (not OTC) cortisone-type steroid cream may help if it's mostly just itchy and swollen. Try applying a cream the new vet recommends with a cotton swab or a small new paintbrush or cosmetics brush to avoid getting nipped if she doesn't like you applying it.

 

[SailBoat]

I elected to not provide a long list of possible causes as you had been to you Avian Vet and the majority of possible causes would have been spotted with your Vet's eyes on!

Flamazine was provided as an antibiotic and with the silver sulphate base is used to mitigate further infection and as a result reduce swelling. A guess, but likely that your Vet noted small surface abrasions and wanted to target both. We find that cotton swabs are a better choice as you can dab a bit better.

Photo #1 (far left side): Look closely at both the top and bottom beak at the closes point near the head and work slowing out words. Note the tiny indentations (breaks) that near match top and bottom. Their size is very close to that of a cage bar or like metal object. Breaks caused by wood tends to be more flacking in nature.

Your sweet girl is a dear 'Mealy' and I am holding back my heart as I have a huge place in my heart for Mealy's. They are the huge Lovers of the Amazon Family! Care for them and they will return every bit of love you provide, plus!

FYI: At seven years of age, you should have received a document package with your girl that provides the species information of her parents, date of hatch, DNA sexing and contact information for the breeder and every stop between them and you. If you do not have that document group, work to create it and provide that information for your Avian Vet to add to her medical history.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I elected to not provide a long list of possible causes as you had been to you Avian Vet and the majority of possible causes would have been spotted with your Vet's eyes on!

Flamazine was provided as an antibiotic and with the silver sulphate base is used to mitigate further infection and as a result reduce swelling. A guess, but likely that your Vet noted small surface abrasions and wanted to target both. We find that cotton swabs are a better choice as you can dab a bit better.

Photo #1 (far left side): Look closely at both the top and bottom beak at the closes point near the head and work slowing out words. Note the tiny indentations (breaks) that near match top and bottom. Their size is very close to that of a cage bar or like metal object. Breaks caused by wood tends to be more flacking in nature.

Your sweet girl is a dear 'Mealy' and I am holding back my heart as I have a huge place in my heart for Mealy's. They are the huge Lovers of the Amazon Family! Care for them and they will return every bit of love you provide, plus!

FYI: At seven years of age, you should have received a document package with your girl that provides the species information of her parents, date of hatch, DNA sexing and contact information for the breeder and every stop between them and you. If you do not have that document group, work to create it and provide that information for your Avian Vet to add to her medical history.

There's definitely inflammation there from infection or otherwise. I recommend following the avian vet's advice and use whatever cream they prescribe as directed even if your girl doesn't like it or else you won't know if the treatment works. If, after using the cream for a couple weeks, there's no improvement, then maybe the vet will try another treatment. I know that birds aren't people but I had some sort of inflammation and tiny cracks in the corners of my mouth that wouldn't heal until my doctor prescribed oral antibiotic and an oral antifungal and within a week the stubborn problem was gone and didn't come back. He told me he prescribed both medications because without a really good culture, which is hard to get because the mouth area has so many harmless bacteria too. I don't know if the corners of a parrot's mouth can have similar problems, but there's hope that eventually your girl will get better. If it proves impossible to use a cream on her because she hated it maybe an oral version of a similar drug would be easier. I can't imagine trying to swab a parrot's mouth with a cream a couple times a day successfully, even with a little budgie! You're on the right track and your girl will be happy when she's not so uncomfortable.

 

[DesibEllie]

I looked up Flamazine and it's an antibiotic cream in a silver sulphate base and is used mostly for burn with bacterial infections. Her skin problem may be bacterial, fungal (would need a different cream)or not infectious (like contact dermatitis or allergic in nature). A prescribed (not OTC) cortisone-type steroid cream may help if it's mostly just itchy and swollen. Try applying a cream the new vet recommends with a cotton swab or a small new paintbrush or cosmetics brush to avoid getting nipped if she doesn't like you applying it.

Thank you DonnaBudgie.

This morning she accepted Flammazine to be applied with the fingers. So hopefully we are getting there with a little patience.

 

[DesibEllie]

I elected to not provide a long list of possible causes as you had been to you Avian Vet and the majority of possible causes would have been spotted with your Vet's eyes on!

Flamazine was provided as an antibiotic and with the silver sulphate base is used to mitigate further infection and as a result reduce swelling. A guess, but likely that your Vet noted small surface abrasions and wanted to target both. We find that cotton swabs are a better choice as you can dab a bit better.

Photo #1 (far left side): Look closely at both the top and bottom beak at the closes point near the head and work slowing out words. Note the tiny indentations (breaks) that near match top and bottom. Their size is very close to that of a cage bar or like metal object. Breaks caused by wood tends to be more flacking in nature.

Your sweet girl is a dear 'Mealy' and I am holding back my heart as I have a huge place in my heart for Mealy's. They are the huge Lovers of the Amazon Family! Care for them and they will return every bit of love you provide, plus!

FYI: At seven years of age, you should have received a document package with your girl that provides the species information of her parents, date of hatch, DNA sexing and contact information for the breeder and every stop between them and you. If you do not have that document group, work to create it and provide that information for your Avian Vet to add to her medical history.

Thank you for your continued input. It's much appreciated!

Well continue with the cream for a couple of weeks, observing her closely for any progress.

Attaching photos of Ellie sitting in at our breakfast today - hoping for a snack, and doing her eagle imitation afterwards.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Thank you DonnaBudgie.

This morning she accepted Flammazine to be applied with the fingers. So hopefully we are getting there with a little patience.

Good birdie!

 

[SailBoat]

Truly love the photos!!
Her Big Eagle is a joy to behold!

Is she flighted?

 

[DesibEllie]

Truly love the photos!!
Her Big Eagle is a joy to behold!

Is she flighted?