Sunny got cuts on her face at the vet. Is that normal like they said it is?

[Sunnybirb]

It's not too bad, but I took a nap and went and checked on her after (I wanted to give her some quiet time), and now I can see her face is very swollen on both sides. The abrasions aren't huge, but they seem rather deep. The skin there on the sides of her face is so delicate, and it looks like it tore a little from them holding her.

She was quiet and I talked to her when we brought her in to the office. There were a lot of dogs barking at her and we had to wait a half an hour because they were running behind. She stayed pushed against the side of the travel cage and as close to me as she could get.

I knew it was going to be hard when they asked me if I could take her out to be weighed and she was not having it. She bit me hard, but not like she used to. I have a bruise, but it was definitely with less force than any other time (and it's been over a month since the last bite, and we've only had her about 6 weeks). But she did NOT want to be touched by the technicians or the vet. She flirted with the vet at first, then acted like she wanted to step up (which means she's preparing for a major bite). The vet was pretty familiar with macaws and wasn't too fazed, even when Sunny repeatedly lunged at her every time she went by.

The vet told me it would probably be best if we stepped out so she didn't associate the blood draw and exam with us, but that if we preferred we could stay. We decided to wait in the lobby. They told me they were going to towel her and get her nails done as well. I could hear her screaming in the hallway, and it was very shrill and made me feel sick. I figured with the blood draw and stuff it was normal. I still cried and felt awful, but they finally called us back there and she was panting and her cheeks were flushed and bloody. I asked them about her face and they said that it does happen sometimes when they have to hold them for the blood draw.

Sunny is a difficult bird. Most people are afraid of her and can't handle her. She's very bossy and will walk all over you if you aren't firm with her, and she's not afraid to use her beak. I still feel conflicted about the visit though, because I feel like an animal shouldn't be injured going to the vet, even if they are aggressive. Accidents happen for sure, but I guess I am mostly sad that they were so nonchalant about it when they obviously hurt her.

I know now that she's going to dread going back and I imagine she is sore. Maybe they are right and them getting some bruising/cuts on their face is normal, but I don't feel comfortable with it. If her face is still swollen by tomorrow I'm going to call and talk to them.

Is this normal? Has this happened to anyone else? I know they were just doing their job, and i'm trying really hard to keep that in perspective because Sunny is aggressive with people. I know that and I warned them of that, but it seems weird that injuring an animal during an exam is a common occurrence.

Thankfully she won't need to go back for awhile, to any vet. They are processing her fecal and DNA test and said that physically she is in good health and molting still. I also talked to them about her feather eating. She doesn't pluck, but she actually picks up her fallen feathers and eats them! I've been giving her everything I can that has lots of calcium, but they said it may just be a habit at this point. In the meantime, I'm working on improving her diet.

Here's a link to an album with some photos of the swelling: https://imgur.com/a/zuOOg

 

[LauraC]

I have a MUCH smaller bird and I always get nervous when they take Fuji to,draw blood. I also get nervous and feel sick when I hear him squawking. Thankfully he has never come back with cuts or bruises.

I would call back and ask to,speak with the vet. Is your vet an Avian Certified vet? You would think they and their staff would be skilled enough to handle a big bird even if the bird was being difficullt.

Hope Sunny feels better soon.

 

[MooshieBird]

Accidents can happen but I wouldn't say it's normal at all. How did they say those cuts happened? It is common for your bird to be nervous and not want the vet touch them but I have never heard of cuts on the face from being handled or toweled. Also I have never been asked by my vet to leave for any reason. My vet includes me in everything as long as I am comfortable. And Moosh does fight them hard when she wants to. From my experience the vet and the techs would rather take a bite than hurt the bird, and while it looks rough they are very gentle and good at what they do. I want to hear what others say but this would concern me if that happened to Moosh.

 

[Sunnybirb]

I have a MUCH smaller bird and I always get nervous when they take Fuji to,draw blood. I also get nervous and feel sick when I hear him squawking. Thankfully he has never come back with cuts or bruises.

I would call back and ask to,speak with the vet. Is your vet an Avian Certified vet? You would think they and their staff would be skilled enough to handle a big bird even if the bird was being difficullt.

Hope Sunny feels better soon.

Yeah, it's hard not to feel sick when they're hurting. You get close to them

She is avian certified and sees a lot of large birds. My friend is a vet tech and recommended one of the avian vets there, a man. Sunny hates men, so I had her go to the female vet instead that works alongside that vet in the same clinic, thinking it would be fine.

That's why I am really disappointed. You would think that they would be able to handle an aggressive bird. The vet even said Sunny did well once they toweled her, but given the wounds on her face I feel like that wasn't true and they got a little rough with her.

I'm going to call tomorrow. I thought maybe it wasn't that bad when I first saw it, but now that it's been several hours, her face is clearly swollen. I'm pretty upset about it.

 

[Sunnybirb]

Accidents can happen but I wouldn't say it's normal at all. How did they say those cuts happened? It is common for your bird to be nervous and not want the vet touch them but I have never heard of cuts on the face from being handled or toweled. Also I have never been asked by my vet to leave for any reason. My vet includes me in everything as long as I am comfortable. And Moosh does fight them hard when she wants to. From my experience the vet and the techs would rather take a bite than hurt the bird, and while it looks rough they are very gentle and good at what they do. I want to hear what others say but this would concern me if that happened to Moosh.

They said it was from holding her. I'm truthfully not sure how they did it. I was just relieved it was done and in a hurry to leave because Sunny was so upset, and that's my fault. I should have pressed them further about it, and stayed in the room. I'm new parrot ownership for the most part (I had budgies when I was young, but my parents took care of everything), so I figured leaving the room was normal. I guess at least I know now. I feel like I put too much trust in them when I shouldn't have. I've had some really great vets in the past, and they always handled everything wonderfully, so this is the first time there's been a problem like this.

 

[MooshieBird]

They said it was from holding her. I'm truthfully not sure how they did it. I was just relieved it was done and in a hurry to leave because Sunny was so upset, and that's my fault. I should have pressed them further about it, and stayed in the room. I'm new parrot ownership for the most part (I had budgies when I was young, but my parents took care of everything), so I figured leaving the room was normal. I guess at least I know now. I feel like I put too much trust in them when I shouldn't have. I've had some really great vets in the past, and they always handled everything wonderfully, so this is the first time there's been a problem like this.

I would hardly say any of this is your fault. You should be able to trust the vet not to injure your bird. Like I said accidents happen but the vet saying that this was normal sounds way off to me. And asking you to leave for an exam and blood work sounds off as well. Asking if you want to leave is fine but asking you to leave so Sunny doesn't blame you sounds off. When Moosh got her microchip the vet warned me the needle was big (fricken thing looked huge to me) and said she would scream and I may want to look away. The vet was awesome, Moosh didn't make a sound and frankly barely seemed bothered by the ordeal. She made more of a fuss during the exam when they were monitoring her heart beat and breathing. And I assure you Moosh never blamed me, if anything I was a refuge from the "mean" vet and tech.

 

[WakaWaka]

We would never leave during an exam unless they had to sedate and go in for x-ray or something like that.
That said, I would be absolute furious if that happened to Arika or any other animal. I understand that accidents happen, but to blow it off like that is uncalled for.

It looks like they were squeezing to hard while toweling her. Their "leather" on the face is very prone to bruising. I would be right back in their office demanding an explanation as to what happened. I cannot see how this could be considered normal!

Also, I would not trust them to offer any remedy. If it were me, I would be seeking help from a different CAV as soon as possible.

This is really upsetting.

Thanks
Kelly, Karl, and Arika

 

[wrench13]

Did they take blood on this visit? Blood can be drawn from parrots from a featherless band they all have where the neck meets the body ( my CAV showed it to me on Salty). Perhaps they could not find a vein there and tried to raise one on Sunny's cheek. I'd e-mail them pics of this swelling and demand an explanation, and I would get a second opinion on this swelling too. Poor Sunny!

 

[riddick07]

Yeah that amount of swelling/cuts isn’t really normal. Maybe a bruise or a light cut if a fingernail accidentally got that delicate area. It looks like they squeezed the face instead of just hooking a finger under the beak and pushing it up so she couldn’t bite. I mean a seriously struggling bird can make everything worse but that is too much. Maybe the vet tech that held is a newer one.

 

[SailBoat]

You had received great insight into the cautions that should be taken and that unless 'as stated' there are specific procedures, do not leave our Parrot. I say this not from the point of view of a mishap, but a fifth or six hand can be helpful.

Our DYH Amazon is very strong flier and he is a true handful to towel! Without my additional help, they would need a second tech. Also, the moment they release the Parrot, your Parrot will come running to you.

Asking a Client "If They Would Like To Leave Or Stay" is a common request during a first visits and most visits! Choose to be a 'Stayer.' Your Parrot will be more comfortable and if additional hands are needed, you are there!

The swelling and bruised spots could be from a tight toweling 'or' more likely from a loose claw! This based on the shape of the primary bruise.

Can this happen? Does this happen? The answer is Yes! And it is more common that most realize. With a MAC, the lack of feathers will show the occurrence. With an Amazon, not so much. Should this happen, No! But unless one is regularly toweling a Mid to Large Parrot, most owners do not experience the flying claw attack and the damage that it can cause. Nor, the strength of their Parrot. Been there, got the cuts to prove it.

Some may have implied that your MAC was miss-handled, I'm not so sure. None of us had been in the room. As I stated earlier, our DYH Amazon is a hand full and with an long experienced CAV and CAVT and I still have to jump-in to hold a claw or a wing that has worked out of a towel.

Should you call your CAV, Yes! Your CAV will want to know of any issues Post visitation.

Should you stay in the room, next time (remember it's your choice)? I do and recommend that others also do! As, I see it as a learning experience (Parrot Handling 101). Be ready and willing to quickly help! The Stronger and Bigger Parrots become a handful quickly and sometimes the additional hands are of great help!

Take away Points:
- Stay in the room and be ready to help!
- Call, but take a deep breath before calling and have a written list that states what you are physically seeing and your honest concerns.
- Learn how to towel and hold your MAC. They will teach you.

 

[riddick07]

I’ve toweled every single macaw at the shelter and that level of damage has never happened. Ive only had a minor bruise once or twice. I can restrain a macaw with one hand on the neck hold, wing pressed into my body, and use the other hand to hold down the last wing/foot. Then whoever gets the last foot for grooming or whatever is being done might require I hold different things (like hold both feeft and one wing is free for clipping or such).

Honestly sounds like the techs need to go play at a shelter lol

Amazons are actually the hardest to hold. Those monsters are just crazy strong!

 

[Jferrand526]

I definitely would demand an explanation. There is no excuse for a laceration on the cheek and for it to be swelling after a vet visit. I hope Sunny feels better soon and I hope you get the explanation you deserve, if any of my birds came out of the vets office with a swollen cheek or a cut I would be very angry especially if the swelling didnt go down for 7 hours

 

[Scott]

Not much to add to the excellent commentary and advice. My avian vets accomplish everything possible in the exam room in front of me.

IMO there are two reasons vets/techs remove the bird from your presence for basic checks and specimens: They believe YOU are uncomfortable and squeamish, or THEY feel empowered to use techniques you might not approve.

 

[Sunnybirb]

Did they take blood on this visit? Blood can be drawn from parrots from a featherless band they all have where the neck meets the body ( my CAV showed it to me on Salty). Perhaps they could not find a vein there and tried to raise one on Sunny's cheek. I'd e-mail them pics of this swelling and demand an explanation, and I would get a second opinion on this swelling too. Poor Sunny!

I asked them about at the time and they said they took blood from her left elbow and to expect some bruising, so they didn't do any work near her face. I'm guessing they pressed the towel in too hard or something. Her face has tears on it when you get really close

I talked to them on the phone a few minutes ago and they gave me an email to send photos to, which I will be using. I also told them they would be covering the cost of any vet visit I have to make to another vet regarding her face, and they said they'd try to resolve it with me. The receptionist talked to the vet who recommended cream for her face and said that blushing/redness was normal. I had to explain again that it was more than just some redness. The receptionist was very understanding, but the vet seems to think it's normal still. I guess I'll see what they say after photos.

 

[Sunnybirb]

You had received great insight into the cautions that should be taken and that unless 'as stated' there are specific procedures, do not leave our Parrot. I say this not from the point of view of a mishap, but a fifth or six hand can be helpful.

Our DYH Amazon is very strong flier and he is a true handful to towel! Without my additional help, they would need a second tech. Also, the movement they release the Parrot, your Parrot will come running to you.

Asking a Client "If They Would Like To Leave Or Stay" is a common request during a first visits and most visits! Choose to be a 'Stayer.' Your Parrot will be more comfortable and if additional hands are needed, you are there!

The swelling and bruised spots could be from a tight toweling 'or' more likely from a loose claw! This based on the shape of the primary bruise.

Can this happen? Does this happen? The answer is Yes! And it is more common that most realize. With a MAC, the lack of feathers will show the occurrence. With an Amazon, not so much. Should this happen, No! But unless one is regularly toweling a Mid to Large Parrot, most owners do not experience the flying claw attack and the damage that it can cause. Nor, the strength of their Parrot. Been there, got the cuts to prove it.

Some may have implied that your MAC was miss-handled, I'm not so sure. None of us had been in the room. As I stated earlier, our DYH Amazon is a hand full and with an long experienced CAV and CAVT and I still have to jump-in to hold a claw or a wing that has worked out of a towel.

Should you call your CAV, Yes! Your CAV will want to know of any issues Post visitation.

Should you stay in the room, next time (remember it's your choice)? I do and recommend that others also do! As, I see it as a learning experience (Parrot Handling 101). Be ready and willing to quickly help! The Stronger and Bigger Parrots become a handful quickly and sometimes the additional hands are of great help!

Take away Points:
- Stay in the room and be ready to help!
- Call, but take a deep breath before calling and have a written list that states what you are physically seeing and your honest concerns.
- Learn how to towel and hold your MAC. They will teach you.

Thank you for this advice. It will definitely be helpful for the next visit! They did say they caused the damage from holding her still, that it wasn't from a claw. Mainly I'm unhappy with how they've handled it. The receptionist I talked to was very understanding, but when he came back and told me what the vet said, I wasn't incredibly happy with her explanation. She said redness was normal, which I would agree with (I imagine it's hard holding a beaky macaw!), but Sunny has swelling and tears/cuts on the skin of both cheeks in the same spot, like it came from fingers pushing in on a towel or glove or whatever it was they held her head with (I'm assuming towel because they said they were going to towel her and I warned them of her hatred of towels, lol).

The vet told him I could come in and get some cream or have her examined again, but I opted not to, and am going to send them some photos instead. Sunny is still showing signs of stress, and I want to give her a break. I will have her examined by a different vet if necessary.

Mostly I'm just really disappointed with how it was handled and it doesn't seem like a vet office I want to continue going to. If their tune changes after further discussion, I might change my opinion somewhat, but they just don't seem to think it matters and are just trying to placate me for the sake of it. I'm not going to return to a vet that isn't concerned about the well-being of my animal. I also take responsibility for not being in the room with her and observing their procedure. They said that's how they usually did it (with the owners out of the room), so I didn't question it, but now I know better. I love my bird and want the best for her, and I simply don't feel like they are the ones that will take the best care of her.

Sunny has been through a lot which is why I haven't toweled her just yet, but I definitely will learn to do it in the future so these visits will go a little easier for everyone. I believe her past owner probably didn't know how to deal with her biting and toweled her a lot (she runs when she sees a towel, or screams). I have never had to towel her to prevent biting, I just earned her trust instead. So I'm going to do the same thing with the towel and let her adjust to it at her own pace. Thankfully all her serious checkups are over, so I have quite a bit of time to get her used to it!

Thanks again for your advice. Hopefully I didn't sound overly dramatic or mad or something. I definitely understand your perspective for sure. I'm here for Sunny and if that means taking her to an even more experienced vet in another city when she needs checkups so it's a little less stressful, I'm perfectly willing to do that.

 

[wrench13]

On the contrary, I think you sound pretty restrained. I know if it was me, I would be screaming upset - hurting Salty is like hurting me!

 

[LordTriggs]

you are in no way being over dramatic. If I had seen that the vet would have been lucky to get out of the practice.

In all honesty I would be prepared to take some court action against that vet because to do that to an animal in their care and then to behave the way they have is completely wrong. If that happened to a dog the vet would never work in the field again

 

[Kentuckienne]

I have never seen the skin damage like that. I do know that sometimes the vets have assistant interns and residents that help handle the birds and some of those people are not as experienced. I get it, people have to learn, but I'm not comfortable having anyone learn on Gus after the last trim. He has a back problem and maybe it hurts him extra. Even if he's not being hurt, he's being scared half to death. That freak-out scream is heart rending. From now on, whenever he has to have any kind of restraint for treatment, other than the exam, I will ask for anesthesia for him. The gasses seem very short acting and safe and surely it's less stressful for his heart and soul. Things happen so quickly in the exam room - there have been times I stayed in the room and didn't stop something that seemed painful - you don't know if it's almost over, or if it's supposed to be like that...so now I take a notepad in with me so I remember to ask what a procedure will be like, will it hurt, how will we know if it's hurting, what are the options ... Because I don't remember to ask everything.

 

[Sunnybirb]

you are in no way being over dramatic. If I had seen that the vet would have been lucky to get out of the practice.

In all honesty I would be prepared to take some court action against that vet because to do that to an animal in their care and then to behave the way they have is completely wrong. If that happened to a dog the vet would never work in the field again

I mentioned this to my family who said I was overreacting about it. I mean, if a dog went to the vet and ended up with cuts and swelling on its face, people would be much more upset. For some reason people think parrots are "just birds" and somehow lesser than other pets. All animals are important and deserve to be treated gently and respectfully.

It was very disheartening that I had three different people in my life tell me it "wasn't a big deal". Sunny is important to me, and I've worked so hard with her in the short time I've had her. She is back to being distrusting, and it's probably going to take me a few weeks or another month to get her back to where we were because she is very upset. I had to coax her out of her cage yesterday morning (usually she's jail breaking the minute I pull the cover off), and it makes me mad that she was made to feel like she can't trust people, even me.

I've saved a voicemail where the vet admits that "there was a lot more swelling in the photos than there usually is", so at least there's that if I do decide to do anything legally, or at the very least report it.

 

[Sunnybirb]

I have never seen the skin damage like that. I do know that sometimes the vets have assistant interns and residents that help handle the birds and some of those people are not as experienced. I get it, people have to learn, but I'm not comfortable having anyone learn on Gus after the last trim. He has a back problem and maybe it hurts him extra. Even if he's not being hurt, he's being scared half to death. That freak-out scream is heart rending. From now on, whenever he has to have any kind of restraint for treatment, other than the exam, I will ask for anesthesia for him. The gasses seem very short acting and safe and surely it's less stressful for his heart and soul. Things happen so quickly in the exam room - there have been times I stayed in the room and didn't stop something that seemed painful - you don't know if it's almost over, or if it's supposed to be like that...so now I take a notepad in with me so I remember to ask what a procedure will be like, will it hurt, how will we know if it's hurting, what are the options ... Because I don't remember to ask everything.

I finally got to hear from the vet yesterday and she said the tech is their most experienced there and always handles the birds, large and small, which isn't very reassuring.

I didn't know you could ask for anesthesia for them... That would be a good option if she has to do anything in the future that is very invasive. It's sad that poor Gus gets so worked up At least being asleep for it is better than his heart racing the whole time.

The notepad idea is great. I'm definitely going to use that whenever she has to go in again. I feel like having read these posts I have a lot better plan for the next visit. I wish I would have posted asking what to expect at her exam.