Sun Conure in his Terrible 2's- HELP!

[WildChild]

Heya! I'm a first time sun conure owner- for a year now, and I've hit this snag with my sunny. I got him when he was about 3 months old, and he was precious. Already tame and what not. He made being a first time Sunny owner easy. I'm a school teacher so during the school year, he got use to me handling him in the evening and spending more time on weekends. This is our first summer together where he sees me everyday and he's driving me nuts. To the point where I'm breaking down in tears because he won't stop. So here's the list of issues:

His screaming- when I'm near his cage, away from his cage, when I enter the room, when I leave the room...he will scream! And it's not like one scream, he screams and then he'll do this thing where he goes "AHHH. AHHH. AHHH. AHHH. AHHH." I don't know how else to describe it. Like one syllable screams? I've tried the ignoring method but it's like he knows and he continues as if it were fun and he likes to hear himself.

Biting- to fix the screaming issue, I've left his door open so he can come and go. But it's like he doesn't want to be inside and he doesn't want to be outside. So I try to get him to step up and he'll chomp down on my finger. I wait until he's out of the cage because I've learned that he's cage aggressive (? Unsure on term), and he'll try to lunge at me if I put my hand in his cage while he's in there. When he is out, and I'm lucky enough not to get munched on, he'll bow his head so I can pet and scratch his head. If he's had enough, without warning he'll chomp down, if I get tired of standing there scratching his head, and he won't step up, again he resorts to screaming.

Hands- when he is on my body, arms, finger, shoulder he won't let me touch him. This is more like, he doesn't like my hands. He just wants to sit on me and my hands need to go somewhere else. This circles back to biting if I try to pet him.

Lips/Mouth- he has this fascination where he wants to be near my mouth and I can't touch him or move him away because that involves my hands which turns into biting which leads back to screaming. He likes to nibble (? Again, term) on my lips and I know humans carry bacteria in their mouths that can harm the bird so I try to keep my lips sealed shut but he still tries to force himself into my mouth. He likes to pretend to be a minature dentist or something.

Poop- my goodness. For a small bird, his poops are MASSIVE! Any advice on how to potty train him would be wonderful! At the moment, he'll just go on me.

Those are the major things I can think of right now. He does like to be bundled up like a burrito in a hand towel and stuffed into the top pf my shirt where his head is peaking out. But he doesn't want me to touch him-hands ya know?

We were great up until this point where the summer is coming to an end and I think we might just be sick of each other? Maybe he got use to being independent while I was working, and then he enjoyed all the attention and having me around all the time the first half of this summer and now he's just sick of me? Idk. I'm worried about getting him a companion because I don't want him to rebel and turn on me. I've also thought about how perhaps he's in his hormonal stage wanting a mate? He did this weird thing a few days ago where he grabbed my finger with his foot and then turned his backside to me and lifted his tail. That was the first time he's ever done that and it creeped me out! I've never seen a bird do that.

I should mention he's on an all seed diet. I've tried giving him fresh fruits and veggies but he wouldn't touch those things. He doesn't care for treats either. He's afraid of anything new. He has a comfort zone...a very small one at that, and anything outside of it is automatically disliked. He also does get his good night's sleep. I know not enough sleep can make them grouchy.

Please help me. His incessant screaming is driving me mad. Any advice is much appreciated!! I know he's a companion for life, I just don't want his neediness, indecisiveness, and screaming to be the death of me any time soon. I'm too young!

Peace, Love, and Happy Birds
Wild Child

Ps: Is there such a person equivalent to Cesar Millan who can come wisper to my bird? Maybe I gave my sunny too much love and broke him.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I don't have time to answer all your questions now, but I'm sure our members will chime in!
What jumps out to me first is the diet issue. On all seeds, he is malnourished and probably grouchy and not feeling good in general. He's sill young, but it'll catch up with him more and more as years go by. Please consider teaching him to accept new foods. Here's what worked for me.
Harrison's Bird Foods
I feed Harrison's, supplemented by fresh healthy treats. My first, and later, my current avian vet recommended it. My bird loves the pellets now, but to get him converted, my avian vet suggested putting pellets out all day, and putting seeds (his old diet) out for two 15-minute periods a day. That would sustain him but leave him hungry enough to try new stuff. I presume the same technique could be used to get him to eat other healthy stuff, like fruits and vegetables! My guy was eating pellets in a couple of days, and now I can feed a good variety of other stuff, knowing he has the pellets as a basic. Pellets are out all day... fresh treats a few times a day. I also like Harrison's via mail because I never have to worry about out-of-date products.

Good for you, for reaching out and wanting to help your bird!

P.S.
Another couple of ideas...
My ol' man is an athlete and health nut. He actually EATS all the good stuff, so it's always around. I find that tossing various stuff into the food bowls at random is good... the variations and differences seem to stimulate curiosity and attention.
The other idea... if you can stand it (lol) EAT the stuff in front of the birds, yes. That encourages them. I have also found that if my ol' man eats stuff in front of the bird, the bird WANTS it for himself. Kinda a rivalry thing!

 

[itzjbean]

Hello and thanks for posting. What you are going through is not uncommon for many sun owners -- screaming, biting and overstepping his boundaries are quite common problems. Let's address all of your concerns.

1. Screaming - oh yes, there is nothing quite like the scream/screech of a sun. In the wild they use their screams to communicate to their large flock and as you have already noticed, it can be excruciatingly loud. Allowing and ignoring your sun when he screams is one option, but I find that there are other ways to manage the screaming better. Notice I said 'manage' and not 'eliminate' because all suns will scream! Not all the time, but it can be managed so it happens minimally.

Don't think that you loved your sun too much and 'broke' him, that's not true at all! However, now that he's getting older, he seems to be testing his boundaries (seeing what he can get away with) and it appears he is getting away with a LOT! You can still love your bird but discipline him, just like a child.

A screaming toddler while they can be ignored, sometimes doesn't solve anything. A way to combat the screaming/screeching is implementing a 'time-out' in a small carrier on the ground covered with a towel, in all darkness. When he screams/screeches, place him in the carrier and put him in the bathroom for 5 minutes or until he stops screaming. No more than that the first time, and as time goes on, when he screams, you move him to this carrier and put him in a quite place to calm down. This works like a time-out....if I scream a lot, I go to the dark place and don't get to see my mommy...maybe I won't do that as much!

Of course you don't want to leave him in the bathroom in time-out all day, but frequently enough so that if he goes into a fit of screaming, he learns to stop and control himself because he knows mommy will put him in the dark quiet room. I don't want to go there! When he stops....then reward with lots of treats and praise.

2. Biting... birds bite for a number of reasons, and its our job to determine WHY the biting is occurring. Are we over-stepping boundaries? Not paying attention to body language? In this case, it seems as if he is using it to tell you 'no! I'm not leaving from your shoulder/arm/lips and I will do what I want!'

In this instance, it's again your job to show your bird that only good birds are allowed out of their cage and allowed to be out and play. A bird that will not politely step up/bites is not allowed out, simple as that. When you first got him, what sort of training did you do to keep him stepping up? Have you continued to use treats to entice him to step up willingly?

Birds will also bite when they are BORED! If they have nothing to do and no mental stimulation, they will only continue to repel and will set their own rules. But a bird that is trained with and worked with on a daily basis (flight recall, target training, step up training, simple 'turn around' or 'open your wings' tricks) can help them and give them some stimulation.

Does he have any foraging toys or other toys in his cage or on a paly-stand he can play with? Some good training to incorporate into you everyday life with him would be to train him to stay on a play-stand and occupy himself. Even for a couple minutes at a time, it will help him be more independent.

The 'time-out' in the small carrier in the dark room could also help curb that biting behavior.

3. Hands -- it sounds like since you brought him home he never ever got comfortable with your hands. While not all birds are cuddly or want to be touched, it's important that birds know our hands are nothing to fear and that they only bring good things. Any time that you reach for him with your hand, offer a treat (even if its just his favorite seed) Every single time, offer him something he likes - a cheerio, something he can see and think of when he sees your hand. The slower you work to approach him with your hand, the easier it should be.

As a rule, no bird should be allowed on the shoulder/around the mouth if they are going to bite you. He should be kept away from your lips/shoulder until he can be trusted not to bite and to step up EVERY SINGLE TIME. Biting your hand and allowing him to continue getting at your mouth is a big NO NO and should not be happening -- you are the flock leader and must set the rules, NOT him. Don't allow him around your lips or shoulder until he knows the rules better.

Hormones could also be playing a role here, and for his first summer, some biting/aggression/screaming is typical, but with more training on both parts it should get better in the coming fall months.

4. Diet... you said that he has very big poops and also is on an all-seed diet. That may be the reason why his poops are so large. If you work on converting him to a better diet, he will likely be much healthier and poops return to normal size. There are more things you can offer than just straight fruits and veggies, while that is a good diet, you can also try 1.) sprouting! - most smaller birds love it, basically its getting a good quality seed mix and soaking them with water and allowing them to sit for a couple days to germinate and sprout, my cockatiel LOVES them and its so easy. 2.) Also an option, pellets! I feed Zupreem fruit pellets and Roudy bush crumbles. Your sun may like those if you wanted to give them a try. Also an option, 3.) try making a batch of birdie bread! Basically you make corn bread muffin mix with different fruits and veggies chopped and thrown inside, almost all bids love the stuff, and its usually best served warm right out of the oven and you can freeze and save for later.

It is certainly possible to potty train. Basically every 20 minutes go over to his cage/over the sink/garbage/toilet and ask him to go potty. Go back every 20 minutes until he goes, and praise him heavily. It only took my Jenday 3 days to learn. Eventually you go up to 30 minutes, then 40, then an hour.

Anyway, that's all I can think of for now. If you're committed to training him and working on getting him on a better diet, I think you will be surprised at how he turns around!

 

[GaleriaGila]

What our Bean said!

 

[WildChild]

Gila and Bean, thank you so, so much for all of your advice! I've already looked into Harrison's bird food, and I'm definitely going to get some shopping done today. I knew the all seed diet wasn't healthy, I just didn't know how else to introduce him to anything new when he's just so finicky to try anything new.

Also, his toys are aplenty. He did tear up his bed/hut thing yesterday. Completely destroyed it but he was in tantrum mode all day. I did read somewhere that their toys should be changed out often to avoid boredom. It's time for new toys then!

Yesterday and the day before I did place him in a time out in his carrier. But I didnt think to put him in a dark room to give him a moment to reflect and cool down!

I can't thank y'all enough though!! Your responses give me a good place to start cleaning up his behavior, and well, educating myself too!

 

[wrench13]

You have gotten gold advice above. The only thing is can add is be consistent. Nothing will confuse him more than if you settle on a course of training and don't continue it long enough, and switch to a new one. Also all parrots have a fav treat - you just have not found it yet. For my Salty it is shelled pine nuts - little slices of them. Go to your supermarkets nut section and get a small amount of a good variety of nuts and try small pieces of the shelled ones. If none work repeat the process as some parrots dont even know what they like. If nuts dont do it try small pieces of vaious fuit and berries. Its critical to find his fav treat as that becomes your reward for desired behaviour. THe butt rubbing is 100% hormonal / mating behaviour.

I would ditch any kind of hut type deal as they can pick and nibble / destroy them and ingest the fibres and eventually block their whole digestive tract. Many members have lost their parrots - especially conures and cockatiels - to these death traps. There are alternative materials like sea grass matts that can be shaped into a hut like structure if he absoloutley must have a hidey space.

I guess it is a few things I added but there is somuch to learn about the care of companion parrots that you almost never learn it all and it is still - after decades and decades of modern vet medicine - changing.

BE PATIENT BE CONSISTENT BE OPEN TO GOOD ADVICE

 

[EllenD]

All good advice above...you've got a Sun Conure that is no-doubt going through puberty, or at least starting to, and he is definitely testing his boundaries with you...I agree that you need to use the "Ignoring/Turning Your Back" method...whenever he bites, no matter how often that is, you remove him from you, put him on the floor, turn your back on him, and totally ignore him for 5 minutes or so...not even eye contact with him...And never on your shoulder if he bites, the shoulder is a reward, not a given...

And the poops are definitely large because of the all-see diet...Gail's method from Harrison's for converting a bird to pellets from seeds is the best I've ever seen, and seems to work pretty-much all the time...You have to remember a couple of things about his diet...#1) The all-seed diet is not only making his droppings huge and plentiful, but it's also causing him to build-up fat-stores in his liver, which will eventually result in Fatty Liver Disease, the number one reason that parrots in captivity die young. So it's not just correcting his poop-size and frequency, but also making him healthy...And #2) He relies on you for his food, and the only reason he only eats seeds is because you give them to him...That isn't meant to be rude or an insult to you, just the truth. He won't starve to death, I promise he won't. It's difficult to be the bad guy, trust me, I know, but if you don't give them to him he can't eat them...just keep that in-mind...

#####One thing that I might be able to add that hasn't really been mentioned yet, about the screaming...You mentioned that "he can't decide if he wants to be inside or outside of his cage", and also that "you leave the door open so he has the option, but he screams if you are in the room, leave the room, etc..."....

What room of the house do you have his main-cage located in? Is it located in the room of your home "where the action is"? Is it in the room of your home that you are usually in when you're at home and inside? Or is it in another room, like a spare bedroom, office, or a room that you've designated as "his" room or "the bird room"? The reason I'm asking this is that what you are describing as far as his behavior with the screaming thing is very common with parrots who are kept in a room of the house separate that is not the room of the house that the parrot's "person" spends most of their time...usually that room is a living room, family room, TV room, den, etc.

Some birds have a very difficult time entertaining themselves with their toys, whether inside their cage, on top of their cage, or on a separate play-stand, if the cage/play-stand is not located in the same room of the house where the people are. Now I'm not saying that you need to be directly interacting with him 24/7, that's not it at all...However, if you spend most of your time in the living room, for example, and his cage is located in a bedroom, then this could very much be your problem...Just having his cage and any play-stand that he has with toys on it in the same room where you spend most of your time when you're home could very-likely solve your screaming/lack of him entertaining himself issues...Even if you're simply watching TV, reading a book, playing a video game, on the computer, etc., it doesn't matter, just having him located in the same room as you while you're doing these things, just you being in his sight and presence, will give him the sense of security and comfort that he's not getting when he's in another room of the house and can hear you...He knows you're home and can hear you, but he can't see you, and that can cause this exact issue you are describing...If this is the case, then try moving his cage into the room you're usually in, and don't directly interact with him anymore necessarily, but just let him have "his space" in the same room as you spend most of your time...Usually people are shocked to see their birds suddenly being very content to play with their toys inside of their cage and suddenly entertain themselves, just because their bird has "his space" in the same room as they are, and because their bird can simply see them...

 

[Caitnah]

My Conure, at 6 months old, did the "BUTT" thing also. He would be sitting with me on my recliner, walk over to my hand, burrow under it and come out by my fingers. He would then raise his tail feathers up and back into my hand.
This lasted a few weeks. He doesn't do that now. Hard to believe that a 6 month old would be hormonal but he was.
Just don't press down on him or his back when he does this.

I also have an adopted older Grey that was only on a seed diet. I am trying to convert him to a better diet. It's an expensive transition...and wasteful.
Luckily my bird store sells a ton of food and you can grab free samples to try. Also as mentioned, Harrison's makes excellent pellets. Their web site will even explain how to convert from seed.

Good luck.

 

[WildChild]

Thank you Wrench, Ellen, and Caitnah!

Wrench- He does like his hidey space, so your advice on the sea grass matts came in very handy! I'm looking into those right after I finish this response! As far as the nuts go, I've noticed he likes the sunflower seeds and shelled peanuts. Those come in his food already, but he throws out a lot of the smaller seeds in there. So I really appreciate the advice on finding other nuts/foods that could turn out to be his favorite because he doesn't technically have a "treat". I tried other "treats" from the pet store earlier when I had first brought him home and he disliked all of it. Main reason why I've just stuck to this seed diet since it was all he would eat at first.

Ellen- the advice of the all seed diet, and the Fatty Liver Disease advice came in very useful! I did not know that actually. It's been difficult to find an aviary vet in my area, and the only one I did find, didn't tell me anything about what the diet I have him on could do to him! As I've mentioned before, I did try giving him other things, but he would fling it. So I just stuck with the seeds since it was all he would eat. BUT, with that said, I'm happy to hear he won't starve to death if I take away his seeds and give him something else to try instead. I did worry the times I was trying to feed him something different that he would go too long without eating, and I would just cave in and go back to the seeds. As his cage location goes, he's in my room. I spend a ton of time in my room. I still live at home, and I've got my room set up like a loft (it's the size of a 2 car garage) so I have basically live in here- work, sleep, watch TV. The screaming doesn't change. He's screaming his little head off as I type this and I've already tried giving him some head and back scratches. He did bite so I set him on the floor and walked away, but he just followed behind me while screaming.

I definitely feel like I'm failing him at the moment. All the advice I'm getting here is coming in as a huge help and I'm making a list of what to pick up when I go shopping for him. He's my baby! I want the best for him, but I'm feeling like a terrible bird momma.

Caitnah- Thank you for your input! I wish I had a bird store around me! We have a Petsmart and Petco as far as anything pet related goes- and those are in the next town over. So I rely heavily to shopping online for bird supplies. Also, glad to know the butt thing happened with your conure too! He hasn't done it since, where he'll grab my finger and pull on me, but he did turn his tail to me earlier and lift. I'm thinking he's going through a hormonal stage. All of his weird behavior is only more recent. But I'm not ruling out diet and boredom either!

 

[Sunnyclover]

I have only one more small peice of advice on the cage aggressiveness. Try to get him a smaller sleep cagevthatyou can put in a total different room or spot than his regular cage with that seagrass mat in it that Wrench was talking about (or skip it). That can really help with cage aggressiveness because he'll have more than one cage which can fix that issue. I have a sun conure who is 2 also and he gets a little weird about his cage at times but the sleep cage has soothed that issue. He had started becoming all puffy and striking at the cage bars although he's never bitten I didn't like where that was going. He never gets like that anymore since we got a sleep cage. Also make sure you put it somewhere quiet and dark for 12 full hours. I hope this helps!

 

[BoomBoom]

Hi, WildChild! You've gotten great advice so far, I see no need to add any more. I'm just here to tell you that I've been there and trust that it will get better! My sun's hormonal period happened a little after 3 years old and tapered off a few months before he turned 4. During this period, he had moments when he was loud, aggressive and bit very hard. I like to be transparent about these realities of parrot keeping because it truly helps others understand that they don't have a problem bird - they just have a temporary problem waiting to be fixed. What worked for me:

1) Avoid situations that trigger aggression. It varies depending on the bird. You can train him out of these gradually - but later. During his first hormonal period, it's best to back off.

2) When you get bit, react the way birds do when other birds bite them (i.e., pained shriek, don't go over the top but do commit to it, no laughing or bad acting allowed haha). This will show your bird that he caused you pain and would help him understand that it's not a cool thing to do to his flockmate. I also would also point to the part he bit then gently touch his beak, saying 'No bite.'

3) He does something aggressive that you don't like, say to him calmly, but firmly, 'No.' Leave him somewhere safe (perch, cage, etc depending on your living situation), and calmly leave the room. Don't let him follow (I close the door behind me). Come back after 10 to 15 mins. This is the number one thing that worked for me during Boomer's puberty angst (thank you, Kalidasa, forever). Just don't do it for extended periods of course

4) Bite pressure train. Look up techniques on how to properly do this. It's very important because it allows your bird to express himself without resorting to a bite. Sometimes they just need to tell the human to move their grubby fingers out of the way.

5) Exercise. Flight training is great for this. Let's them burn all that energy and hormonal frenzy. Also strengthens bond.

What I do not suggest is to clip the bird's wings as a means to subdue him. This is a fast way to frustrate an already hormonally frustrated bird and lead to a host of other behavioral issues. I also do not recommend giving them Lupron (?) shots which is supposed to reduce hormones. I've never done it but it sounds like a good way to ruin a bird's kidneys. What's crazy is that both of these things were recommended to me by none other than a vet! Also do your best not to raise your voice or show agitation - it will always backfire. Not saying you do, but thought I'd mention it anyway

Hang in there!! Once your sun gets over his initial hormonal rage, and granted that the human made no mistakes to reinforce aggressive behavior, things will be much, much better and more mellow. Take it from someone who was literally at wit's end. Hmmm... I said I would not give advice but I got carried away, sorry! Anyhow, I hope this helps. Best of luck! You can do this!

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

A lot of great advice!

When I got Skittles he was a little over a year old. The first few years I had him were a total nightmare. The incessant screaming was maddening. But the causes of all that were actually caused by me. I was not setting limits or boundaries and was spoiling him rotten.


Sunnies reach sexual maturity between 1-3 years of age and as any sun owner will tell you, these are the most difficult years for them and you. It DOES get much better as they age out of it, provided proper things are done to curb bad behaviors etc.


I did two things that rectified my issues with Skittles. One has already been mentioned- time-outs. I cannot recommend those enough. They were incredibly helpful, albeit very hard for me to do. I bought him a time-out cage and when he needed those timeouts, I put him in it and put him in the other room in the dark for 3-5 minutes. If he started acting up again after the time-out, I'd do it all over again. I no longer have the time-out cage cause it's not needed and given that the cage was associated with time-outs, I couldn't use it for anything else.

I also think having a proper diet, adequate amount of sleep (having a separate sleep cage in a room that is constantly quiet, ie the bedroom is ideal) and allowing enough time and space for exercise are all things that can help curb bad behavior.

The other thing is, when you are home Sunny is going to want to be with you. Try and find ways to integrate Sunny into your daily activities. It's not hard to do. Skittles just likes being near me. I put playstands and perch areas in every room and he just follows me. When I am on the PC, he will often just sit on my shoulder pressed up against my neck, or he'll sit on the perch playstand I mounted to my desk or he'll cuddle inside my shirt. I found that by finding ways to include him in my household activities was incredibly helpful in keeping his behavior in check.


Using positive reinforcement with treats and rewards (for good behavior) is another thing to do. Sunnies LOVE attention and if they get it by behaving and not when misbehaving, they'll catch on.


Good luck!