Sudden and Unexpected

[KMW]

My wife and I brought home our Green Cheek conure 2 weeks ago to the day from a reputable shop.

Before we adopted this conure we had our Budgie who had lived 11 years. We waited a whole year and did a lot of research Including several books and even a video on training before getting a new bird.

I'll try to make this brief, but I believe that I did everything right. The right setup, diet, socialization, sleep schedule, bird safe house, etc. All of this plus visiting the bird twice a week before we brought it home.

Tonight at 7;20pm he looked like he was trying to get something out of his crop by bobbing his head, then flew from the couch to his cage, couldn't quite make it, but his feathers were clipped and were still growing back so not terribly unusual, but he seemed hunched over and wouldn't step up. I picked him up and placed him in his cage and he began vomiting 3-4 times, seemed disoriented. I called a vet and was able to arrange a meeting with an avian vet and arrived at 8:37pm. Unfortunately our bird did not survive the trip.

Upon examination the vet could not find any obvious cause of death. A necropsy is going to be done, and hopefully I will know the results soon. We are both shocked, because until 7:20 pm, everything seemed to be going perfectly with our new bird. I plan on seeing the shop owners tomorrow to see if they are aware of any problems, but other than that we do not know what to do. This has happened very fast and we sunk a lot of time and a good chunk of money into making this work.

If anyone can offer any insight I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

-K

 

[Jen5200]

I’m so sorry for the loss of your birdie - it sounds like you did everything right. I can’t shed any insight, but I wanted to extend my sympathy for your loss. I hope the vet or the shop can shed some light about what happened.

 

[LaManuka]

Welcome to Parrot Forums, although I wish it were under happier circumstances. It would seem you are not the only new conure parent who has suffered a sudden loss - another member posted today having lost a young green cheek conure after only 4 or 5 weeks. Having the necropsy done is the best way to try to ascertain what may have caused his death, certainly I am unable to shed any further light for you either.

The loss of these little ones is never easy, no matter how long or short a time they've been with us, but to lose one so young is very difficult indeed. I am truly sorry for your loss.

 

[1oldparroter]

This forum appreciates your loss. It could be just an accidental thing. Maybe he inhaled when he should of swallowed. Sorry again for your loss. jh

 

[Laurasea]

I'm so sorry you lost your young bird. Heartbreaking...
Birds are evolutionary masters at hiding bieng sick, they will fake eat, play.. so it's possible he was sick. Or it could have been a toxin.

 

[wrench13]

Sorry to read of the passing of your little one. Depending on the necropsy results, make sure to thoroughly clean and disinfect the cage perches and other areas where he was; some diseases for parrots linger and could re-infect any new one. With a necropsy you'll know what happend and can act accordingly.

 

[noodles123]

I'm so sorry...

Were you using any non-stick cookware (air fryer, electric skillet, drip trays, waffles irons,popcorn poppers, cookie sheets, pans etc) that may have contained Teflon/PTFE/PFOA or PFCs? I ask due to the fact that it happened in the evening when a lot of people cook...It could have been illness or something congenital...really hard to know...

Glad you are doing the necroscopy--- that is so responsible and so important!

Again...so sorry you are going through this! Very sad and very hard for your family and you.

 

[KMW]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I spent a good chunk of the day sterilizing and throwing stuff away. Still haven't heard the results of Necropsy.

Also our home has never used teflon, none of the food items we gave him were out of the ordinary, and since he was so new there was no chance of him getting into anything he shouldn't have because he was thoroughly monitored while he was out of the cage.

It's all very strange.

 

[KMW]

Just finished speaking with the Veterinarian regarding the Necropsy. He felt pretty certain that it was lung damage. He had asked before the necropsy if we had used a broiler, which we had that day for a total of 5 min, before reducing temp. There was no teflon, or non stick anything. Just salmon and a cast iron pan we've used forever, and nothing was burned.

I'm really confounded by all of this for the following reasons:

1. Everyone I spoke with, including the vet seemed to think the symptoms I described (primarily vomiting followed by dizziness) did not sound like a respiratory issue.

2. All the equipment we currently use is the exact same as when we had our parakeet who lived 11 years. the last 4-5 of those years with the oven we have now. We have no new equipment in the kitchen, no new chemicals, nothing.

I don't know what to think. Does this mean we can never have a bird now? How could this happen with a 2 month old bird, but not have affected our parakeet who lived for over a decade?

I spoke with the owners of the shop this morning and they were willing to refund the cost of the bird and pay for the necropsy, or set us up with a new bird if the necropsy showed that we were not at fault, but I guess this means it's on us now. I am completely flummoxed.

 

[noodles123]

Again, I am so sorry and I hope that you get the answers you seek. It sounds like you are doing everything right in terms of follow-up etc.

I am not saying I have answers, but many birds survive things that kill other birds. My parents lived with a parakeet who survived EVERYTHING (the same things that frequently kill birds)..until maybe she didn't -although she lived a long time (considering-maybe 14 years???). Nevertheless, most birds in her situation would have died early-on because my parents really didn't know any better and they did a lot of dangerous things around her unknowingly.

It is important to be diligent on checking into what you are using---one cannot assume that all birds are equal in terms of resilience.

Technically, broilers can kill birds (as can foods baked at high temperatures and burning food)...Anything that heats the oil to an unsafe temperature and/or contains PTFE/PFOA/PFCS can be very bad (even browning butter in a stainless steel situation can be VERY hazardous). Chemicals and scented things should not be used in a home with a bird).

You probably will know more once the results come back..

Again...so sorry you are going through this-- I only offer my "2 cents" because there is no much that can go wrong and you are looking for answers.

 

[Laurasea]

Some couches are sprayed with Scotchgard, or chemicals to prevent stains from sticking, or chemicals are used to clean them.. and you said she was on couch ..
Also I don't know if you have other pets, but if you do and you apply topical fkea prevention that can be on your hands or the couch. .
It scares me that a broiler could cause this, as I do my steaks this way, and have for years .. Have you ever used over cleaner in it?
A toxin would fit with all signs you mentioned, the dizziness, the vomited, the lung damage... Birds are so sensitive to so many things..
I'm so sorry for your loss, it's so hard to loose them.

 

[Scott]

My deepest condolences for the loss of your Green Cheek. The passing of a young bird is particularly sad in recognition of years of anticipated joy. May you be comforted by his bright memories.

Do you know if the vet is certified avian? A highly trained specialist might more effectively discern probable cause. Are you waiting for toxicological tests for additional information?

 

[KMW]

Thanks again for all the replies.

Yes the vet is certified Avian.

Once again, and I cannot overstate this. We do not have teflon in the house. We haven't for many many years. Out of an abundance of caution I have examined everything in our house before we obtained our new bird and again after his death. What cleaning chemicals we use are "green" and have been used in our home for many years.

After cleaning his cage I did notice that there was a toy that contained foam, with little bits missing that the conure had chewed off. I could not find those missing pieces, and had not seen pieces of this brightly colored foam during previous cleanings. Also there were relatively few droppings from the last day in his cage.

Here is what I am wondering. Could he have ingested foam, which caused a blockage, which resulted in aspiration and as a result caused the inflammation that occurred in the lungs as seen in the necropsy??

I have called the vet to ask about this possibility, and am waiting for him to return my call.

I understand that it is possible for oil smoke to harm a birds respiratory system, but What cooking we did was short, smokeless and in a room separated by a hallway from where the bird was that day. I suppose it is also possible that our parakeet had lungs of steel and our years of cooking around him, including when we lived in a smaller home may be irrelevant. But it does seem very strange.

 

[noodles123]

Thanks again for all the replies.

Yes the vet is certified Avian.

Once again, and I cannot overstate this. We do not have teflon in the house. We haven't for many many years. Out of an abundance of caution I have examined everything in our house before we obtained our new bird and again after his death. What cleaning chemicals we use are "green" and have been used in our home for many years.

After cleaning his cage I did notice that there was a toy that contained foam, with little bits missing that the conure had chewed off. I could not find those missing pieces, and had not seen pieces of this brightly colored foam during previous cleanings. Also there were relatively few droppings from the last day in his cage.

Here is what I am wondering. Could he have ingested foam, which caused a blockage, which resulted in aspiration and as a result caused the inflammation that occurred in the lungs as seen in the necropsy??

I have called the vet to ask about this possibility, and am waiting for him to return my call.

I understand that it is possible for oil smoke to harm a birds respiratory system, but What cooking we did was short, smokeless and in a room separated by a hallway from where the bird was that day. I suppose it is also possible that our parakeet had lungs of steel and our years of cooking around him, including when we lived in a smaller home may be irrelevant. But it does seem very strange.

My parents' bird certainly did (again--should have died from all of the stuff she was exposed to) BUT it sounds like you could definitely be onto something with the foam (and you sound like you know more about the risks than my parents did).

They can get blockages and from what I understand those can cause vomiting and reduced pooping---could he have aspirated his own vomit (or foam)? That seems plausible for sure.

If you weren't using any air fresheners, carpet shampoos, candles, perfumes etc then those can probably be ruled out. The cleaners probably didn't do it, BUT I wanted to point out that even "green"/ natural things like essential oils can harm their lungs. The whole reason aromatherapy works on people is because inhaling those oils puts them into your bloodstream and impacts the nervous system. SO, unless the cleaners are green and avian-safe, I would always look into them before using (look up the ingredients, run them by the vet etc). Some of the "green" stuff is bird safe...So you might want to double check the contents because certain things (like tea-tree oil) which are totally safe and "green" for humans are very bad for birds.

Last thought-- New(ish) flooring/carpet/cabinets and new furniture can also off-gas a lot (mattresses, rugs, couches etc are some big offenders--not just from Scotchgaurd but other chemicals) . Walls that were painted with VOC-containing paint can go for years, same with mattresses and furniture). Is this a new house by chance, or a house that recently was painted within the last few years? You mentioned that the house is different from the one you lived in with the parakeet (which is why I ask).

 

[KMW]

So, our parakeet was with us for four years in the "new" house and he lived 11 years. Our Conure was 2 months old and was in our house 2 weeks to the day before it died.

And we've not gotten any new furniture. In the two weeks we had our conure we had only used Clorox green works cleaning solution in the the kitchen, and certainly not enough that would carry fumes into the living room. We did paint one of our bedrooms with low VOC paint over the summer, but that's months ago now.

On his cage we initially cleaned the new cage with vinegar/water solution when it was brought home. Afterwards just warm water and elbow grease.

I talked to the vet earlier today and asked about the possibility of aspiration/complications related to ingesting food, and he did not believe this to be the case. Tissue from the birds lungs are now being sent to a lab for further investigation.

May take over a week for results.

 

[KMW]

We finally got confirmation from the pathologist that it was Teflon.

After taking our home apart and calling the manufacturers of a variety of different products in our home, I looked in one last place. I had already examined the oven and called GE to inquire about the materials used in the manufacture of the oven. But after another inspection I realized that there were same faint white spots on the bottom of our oven.

I had assumed it was baking soda, which we use to clean our oven. On closer inspection I realized the white spots had a unique texture to them at which point I realized that it must be residue from months ago when we had an oven liner. At least 7 months had come by since we used the oven liner, so we didn't think anything of it.

I called the manufacturer of the oven liner and they suggested replacing the bottom of the oven. It was a horrible mistake on our part, but obviously there is nothing that can be done now.

I did remove the bottom of the oven and have replaced it, as well as using the self clean function for the first time ever, just in case there was anything smaller that was not visible to the eye. Hopefully now our home is bird safe.

It's embarrassing to admit this, but maybe this information may be useful for someone else down the road.

Thanks for all of the responses from the members of this forum, it is appreciated.

 

[1oldparroter]

It is amazing to see the amount of information exchanged here. I must thank you again for being so persistent to find the cause. Considering how much you tried to prevent such an accident and the new information afforded. I hope you aren't put off of having another bird or so. It was an accident after all and one that your parakeet had already survived. By all means consider having another bird. Perhaps you'd even be open to re - homing and extending your love and care to them. jh

 

[Scott]

We finally got confirmation from the pathologist that it was Teflon.

After taking our home apart and calling the manufacturers of a variety of different products in our home, I looked in one last place. I had already examined the oven and called GE to inquire about the materials used in the manufacture of the oven. But after another inspection I realized that there were same faint white spots on the bottom of our oven.

I had assumed it was baking soda, which we use to clean our oven. On closer inspection I realized the white spots had a unique texture to them at which point I realized that it must be residue from months ago when we had an oven liner. At least 7 months had come by since we used the oven liner, so we didn't think anything of it.

I called the manufacturer of the oven liner and they suggested replacing the bottom of the oven. It was a horrible mistake on our part, but obviously there is nothing that can be done now.

I did remove the bottom of the oven and have replaced it, as well as using the self clean function for the first time ever, just in case there was anything smaller that was not visible to the eye. Hopefully now our home is bird safe.

It's embarrassing to admit this, but maybe this information may be useful for someone else down the road.

Thanks for all of the responses from the members of this forum, it is appreciated.

Thank you for posting an epilogue to your tragedy. It may help a future member avoid a similar experience.