Strangest vet visit I've ever had

[chris-md]

Parker got a vet visit today because he is in the throes of plucking his feathers again, definitely barbering! I thought this is the best time to get to the vet and try to solve his issue while he's doing it.

I spent an hour in there just talking to her about him and his care and possibilities. No real solutions put forth. and at the end of it she asks "so what do you want to do as far as a plan moving forward?"

I've never had a vet ask me what I think the best treatment is...I thought that's why I came to you????

Needless to say I'm scratching my head here. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt because I understand plucking is complex and not always curable, but to ask the patient how to proceed?? Ugh...

I recommended checking hormone levels and vitamin D, and she spent half an hour researching if those were something that can and should be done. Turns out not so much for various reasons.

I came away with recommendation to switch to a pellet diet because "you can't account for micronutrients", possible Luperon shots or implant of the same vein, and checking for giardia. I don't make Luperon money but am considering the hormone blocking implant. Doing giardia testing too.

His skin was actually kind of flaky dry, but she said that what she sees typically wouldn't bother other birds. It's possible he has a lower tolerance for it and might be contributing.

*audible sigh* round and round and round she goes. Where she stops, nobody knows.

 

[Anansi]

Strange, indeed. She sounds unsure of herself. Did she at least draw blood to check his levels for any deficiencies?

 

[chris-md]

She did come off unsure, but given the complexities of plucking I'm having a hard time really blaming. But you should never ask the patient what is the best course of treatment.

We did not draw any blood. His diet is such that she didn't feel there would be any concerns with levels of any particular macronutrient.

 

[Christinenc2000]

"so what do you want to do as far as a plan moving forward?"

Maybe she was trying to be nice asking about Financial wise.

 

[Mekaisto]

This is a long shot, but do you shower him every day? A friend of mine had an ekkie which was chewing it's feathers and had dry skin - took it to the vets for all sorts of tests, changed her diet a dozen times and in the end, it just turned out the humidity in her house was too low.

 

[chris-md]

"so what do you want to do as far as a plan moving forward?"

Maybe she was trying to be nice asking about Financial wise.

Nope. It was clear I had more of an idea of what I wanted to do than she did. At that point she hadn't even recommende anything.

This is a long shot, but do you shower him every day? A friend of mine had an ekkie which was chewing it's feathers and had dry skin - took it to the vets for all sorts of tests, changed her diet a dozen times and in the end, it just turned out the humidity in her house was too low.

This has been a leading theory, and why I mentioned above about his slightly flaky skin. She thought what she saw wouldn't bother any other birds but she does allow for leeway for individuality in sensitivity. I need a whole home humidifier to address this, and I know I would benefit. But it's been a very hard sell with my partner.

 

[JerseyWendy]

In all honesty, and believe me, I do NOT want to come across as blunt or harsh, Chris, I think your vet sounds amazing! There are SO many reasons for plucking/barbering. Better yet, sometimes a bird starts plucking for absolutely NO apparent reason, even after the bird was given a complete physical, and nothing was found to be 'out of place'. So much is unknown of the cause, and even less is known about 'permanent' cures.

You and your SO are the ones who are with Parker every day. Not your vet. I believe that perhaps that's why she asked "so what do you want to do as far as a plan moving forward?"

WOW, she spent an entire hour just discussing Parker with you. That's fantastic, IMO. She definitely cares. Is she insecure? Well...when it comes to plucking, again, there are no known cures if the bird is otherwise healthy.

KUDOS to you, Chris! You leave no stone unturned. I admire that so much!

Scritches for PP (pretty Parker), please.

 

[plumsmum2005]

On the positive side I agree with Wendy to give a whole hour is fantastic, not something I'll ever get here. Also you will come across as a knowing parront and to be consulted is great I feel. She recognises this.

 

[Mallory]

I didn't notice if you mentioned this was an avian vet? I am going to assume you are seeing a specialist.

On one side I try to be very knowledgeable about my animals and like my vet to involve me heavily in decisions and discuss things with me thoroughly. I also like my vet to spend time talking with me and learning the whole story. It sounds like she is trying to make a very personalized treatment plan which is good. I would not expect a vet to start a treatment plan without discussing options first as I am the one making medical decisions for my personal animals.

On the other hand...the vet that had to pull out a book when we asked "tougher" questions and pretended to know exotics and challenging cases ended up hurting some of my animals badly including not catching a fatal disease in our husky - you can read about that in other threads. I trusted this vet and it took two dead exotics and our husky being abused during her surgery stay for us to realize and leave, and by then it was too late to help our other dog. I think you know when something isn't right and I wish I had trusted my instincts because - too late - I now have an amazingly compassionate and experienced new vet. The old vet literally cussed me out on the phone the last time we talked even though I was being more reasonable and calm than he deserved at that point. Gut feeling was right in that case!

When you start doubting your vet's competence on something that should be a relatively common issue (like feather plucking to an avian vet), it's a sign. Furthermore, how comfortable will you feel if your bird has to go in for emergency surgery with the same vet? The best thing is to follow your instincts. If you do leave, I would be candid with your vet about why - while remaining polite - so that if they genuinely care about their patients she can work to improve her own knowledge base and skills.

 

[chris-md]

Now that I've had a day to digest, it was still the strangest visit I've ever had. But I probably should have clarified I didn't come away thinking she was incompetent.and in total I was there 2 hours (hour talking with her, and the before and after waiting and dealing with the vet techs.

And to address the question she is in fact an avian specialist.

Wendy I agree. Make no mistake that fact is not lost on me. And I definitely didnt come away thinking she was awful, and I'm definitely going back. It's just very odd that she would ask me what I had in mind when she didn't even provide me options. In retrospect I chalk it up to maybe a mental misfire, which we all get every once in a while.

To me it's important to remember this incident is over probably the most complex behavior we can see in birds, and in many cases can't take care of. Outside of this issue she's very knowledgeable and caring about her charges.

I think my next step is a whole home humidifier and flaxseed oil (for ingestion!!) for his skin and the implant in 6 months.

PROTEIN INSIGHT
There was an AHA! Moment there. We were going over diet, specifically omega 3/6/9 and incomplete be complete proteins. and she mentioned how it's actually well known that most parrots are insectivorous and not just obligate furitivores, like we often treat our ekkies. A bit more research on my end found one or two non scientific resources that corroborate for ekkies specifically. And a scientific literature mention indicating how rare strict fruitivores actually are.

Take hom: complete proteins are a necessary part of the diet. I should up his intake just a little, and more importantly not feel guilty when I do give him some chicken.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Chris have you tried Hemp Seed for Omega's as very good apparently? Can provide high levels of calories but if not weighty bird shouldn't prove to be a problem.

 

[chris-md]

I do give him hemp seed frequently. I use it as top dressing for maybe half his meals.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Please don't get grossed out now. When I had my pair of RS Eclectus they took a dive into my bag of waxworms and chowed them down ravenously. :32: It was completely unintentional, I promise, and it grossed me out, but both Jasper & Gemma had a field day. They also liked dried mealworms that I always have at hand in an attempt to attract Eastern Bluebirds.

 

[Taw5106]

She may have been caught off guard by how much knowledge you have and could speak to. You are very thorough and you have been tracking what you've been doing to better him.

 

[RavensGryf]

Please don't get grossed out now. When I had my pair of RS Eclectus they took a dive into my bag of waxworms and chowed them down ravenously. :32: It was completely unintentional, I promise, and it grossed me out, but both Jasper & Gemma had a field day. They also liked dried mealworms that I always have at hand in an attempt to attract Eastern Bluebirds.

Now Wendy, I'm 'assuming' they really weren't YOUR waxworms... You mean for reptiles, right?? LOL That grosses me out too about the birds eating it .

 

[JerseyWendy]

Now Wendy, I'm 'assuming' they really weren't YOUR waxworms... You mean for reptiles, right?? LOL That grosses me out too about the birds eating it .

What? You don't like chocolate covered crickets either? I wanted to try something a little fresher that day, but it was a royal PITA getting the squishy things out from between my teeth. :09:

 

[RavensGryf]

Now Wendy, I'm 'assuming' they really weren't YOUR waxworms... You mean for reptiles, right?? LOL That grosses me out too about the birds eating it .

What? You don't like chocolate covered crickets either? I wanted to try something a little fresher that day, but it was a royal PITA getting the squishy things out from between my teeth. :09:

ROTFLMAO!!!!! :18: Ewwwwww!!!!!!

 

[chris-md]

HA Wendy!! I Must confess I'm not above feeding Parker these little things if he likes it

 

[Birdman666]

TRANSLATION: No one really knows what to do. So I can guess, and charge you for it.