Stepping up on Erin's terms...help

[Hayden1987]

Hi there, just out of curiosity... have you ever tried putting your mac on a perch ot T stand and clicker training? Just click and treat, click and treat until the bird realises the click means reward... it may take time for the bird to realise what the click means but just have patience...

Once the bridge has been built use it to teach the bird to step up... even if you start by clicking and rewarding everytime your bird lifts it foot and makes a slight hint of stepping up... I feel it helps build a bond and create a trust with the bird. just take things in small increments and have tonnes of patience I hope this helps..
Goodluck and keep us posted

 

[Chesphoto]

Good advice Hayden. I don't use a clicker, but I say "good girl" instead. I knew that I probably wouldn't always have a clicker around so I decided to use my voice to let my bird know that she was doing what I wanted. Both ways can work very well.

 

[MikeyTN]

Hey guys, I think if she can get the bird to get on a T-stand she would. But I think her problem is getting the bird to step up to do so in the first place. And yes on clicker training which that can be done within the cage as well. But seriously, my stick method works! And no I don't use clicker as most of my birds just wants to whack the clicker so I do like what Chesphoto does, by saying good girl/boy.

 

[Chesphoto]

If the problem is just stepping up, I use the technique that Barbara shares at goodbirdinc.com. I let the bird climb out of its cage. I place one hand on the opposite side of the cage and give it treats with the other hand. I slowly move my treat hand towards the hand planted on the far side of the cage. Eventually, the bird has to cross my hand to get a treat. Then I position the hand so it will have to step on my hand to reach the treat. This my take some time, but by being a slow process, you are not likely to be bitten and it let's your bird get comfortable with you.

 

[Hayden1987]

Oh yea definitely mikey... there are many ways to train any animal, the only reason i say to place the bird on a stand (if possible) is because personally I have found by removing the animal from the main area of problem like the cage can help in cementing trust due to being in an unfamiliar situation and your hand/arm becoming the most comfortable zone. This is definitely not the only way though.. just do what you feel will work the best... and if something isn't go back to the drawing board and try a different method.

The reason i use clickers more than verbal is because for me they can catch that exact moment of behaviour you are wanting faster than a good or yes.. its all down to personal preference.

Hayden

 

[MikeyTN]

I have seen birds that's unwilling to step up even for treats. You hold treats on one end, they run the opposite end. Willie my B&G for example have become quite stubborn after he hit his full hormone. I had a hard time with him for awhile and that was after having him for many years. I ended up having to use the stick to re-train him and got him back on track. But after Lola showed up, he's actually being even more cooperative because there's competition now. He never cared if I held any of the other birds. But it gets to him that I'm holding another B&G. Lola on the other hand is very high strong young female that tries to over run me. I used the stick with her from the very beginning and I don't even need the stick anymore now days. She's become so accustomed to me as she does what she's told. That was after just a few days of owning her! Willie have been with us for 10 years and Lola just for few months.

 

[DelilahDeviance]

I have already been clicker/target training for about three weeks. She finally started catching on early this week. She didn't like my treats enough! So I swapped to tiny pieces of cashews. I wouldn't exactly call her cage a problem area. The couple of times she has been anywhere else she is just as difficult. I have dealt with cage territorial birds-she definitely not cage territorial. She doesn't lunge. She lets me clean her cage every day and move her toys. She will even playing with my hair while I do it. Now that she has finally figured out what toys are she will play with anything....and I digress..... Anyway. I talked to the old owner. She told me she probably doesn't wanna step up because the only time she took her out was to trim her wings and her nails. She also has never been flighted. I personally like my birds flighted and think they are more stable when trained/socialized properly. But I understand why people clip and I do not judge them. Flighted birds are a lot of work!!! Anyway... I have never had a bird that was so hot and cold. She wants me to be with her. And when she wants to step up she really lets you know. But you are right Mikey-she isn't interested in treats when she doesn't want to move. Regardless of where she is. She knows what stepping up is. And I started target training her to bridge that to stepping up. I think she's improving a little. The most frustrating thing is she has improved so so so much since she got here. How much more can I ask other than her just moving at her pace. But I think her progressing so quickly have me false hope. Thanks everyone! I really do appreciate it. You have all been wonderful!

 

[Hayden1987]

Well delilah all i can say is that from what i have been reading.. you are doing wonderfully well!! Only time patience and perserverance will tell what the future holds! I personally have never target trained a parrot.. i have many many other animals, but i definitely feel it is a very valuable technique. Its great to hear that erin is clicking on to the training... well done

Hayden

 

[JJones1719]

You are the one posting on this site, My GW has no issues with stepping up.
I work with rescue birds that for most people cannot handle at all. They have come to us from real horror stories. I have even gone to new owners of Macaws who know nothing about them to help the get their macaws out of the cages and teach them how to handle a Macaw. I have never said to abuse a Macaw nor knock them to the floor just for giggles. It would be my guess that you believe you know everything there is to know about training an unwilling Macaw and did not even take the time to do your own research to see that Macaws on top of their cage can lead to cage aggression and the best way to handle Macaws are at a lower then eye level.
Have you ever been to a Macaw show at one of the Parks where the trainers have their birds outside, why are they always perched and never standing on top of a cage. Just saying.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Really Joe? Was it necessary to become that rude?

The OP nowhere claimed to "know it all", unlike someone else who jumped in on this thread.

NOBODY knows all there is to know about Macaws for that matter, as each bird is an individual, and there isn't a single method that works for all birds.

You DID mention knocking the macaw off the perch in order to have him step up. Well let me tell YOU something: If I were to knock either of my big macs off their perch on purpose, I would most definitely be rewarded with a hard bite. I would undoubtedly scare them by knocking them off, and a fear bite is MUCH worse than an aggressive bite.

PLEASE, be civil and be kind.

 

[JJones1719]

Wendy, Please read the post. I was the one being attacked on this thread.; I have helped many macaw owners with behavior issues, handling where it is safe for both Macaw and owner. How to build a relationship with a Macaw.
I find on this thread that there are many people who buy Macaws and know nothng about them. They then find themselves not being able to handle them, train them, know what diet they should be on. Before you know it, these people bring their Macaws to our rescues to drop off because they did not do thier homework first.
Unless I read the thread wrong, I beleive this sender stated that she lives in the Tornado alley and in an emergency would need to be able to pick up their Macaw in seconds, The advise i gave her was only in an emergency.
If the sender does not want my advise, then fine don't take it, don't comment.
I have not come across any Macaw or smaller Parrot that I cannot handle or step up for me and I have met some real monsters.lol.
Trust is key with Macaws and other Parrots alike. This will be the last time I post on this thread. Best to luck to all. Joe

 

[DelilahDeviance]

I thought I was quite civil. Whatever... But then he did immediately attack me when I said that I didn't agree with his methods. I even stated (twice) that obviously I would do what was necessary in any emergency situation. Moving on to the good news. I rearranged her cage. And she started stepping up much more reliably... I don't know why, but it worked. She loved the target training now and is learning to say 'target'! So in the past two days she has stepped up easily three times even when she didn't want to. So we did some couch sitting and walnut eating together. I am very proud!!

 

[DelilahDeviance]

Height dominance is a myth - ParrotChronicles Why Does My Bird Do That? Q&A
One of many many recent articles on height dominance.

Also I did not buy my bird from anyone. I also do rescue. Every animal in my house was an animal that came to me because it had nowhere else to go. Including Erin. I have never given any animal to another rescue. When they come here I train/socialize and either re home or keep them. I have worked with many different kinds of animals including many birds. Is she my largest rescue? Oh yeah she is. But that's the thing the idea that you should train animals based on anything other than the individual is a myth. There are some basic truths for prey and predator animals. Zoos and bird shows also admit they use some pretty unsavory training techniques. Reducing their weight up to twenty percent so they will be more food driven. Among many other things. Zoos and most bird shows are not what I care to base anything I do off of. These birds are kept in my home. Not in large aviaries. They use techniques from falconry, some are ok, most are still based on a predatory animal. Our birds are prey, not predators. I also have done much more research than I care to admit BEFORE I agreed to take her. For the exact reason you are talking about. I rescue.

 

[MikeyTN]

Let's keep everything civil guys, if there's any big disagreement you may take it to prvt. But let's keep it more civil here. We're all here for one reason, our birds. We won't always agree on everything but one thing we can agree on is we're trying to learn more about them all the time and help others when needed.

 

[triordan]

When we first got our gw macaw, I was intimidated by the beak and basically bribed him back in with walnuts. Then one night we had an bad storm and lost our electricity. As soon as the lights went out he went right into his cage. I used that tactic (turning off the lights) for a while while saying"time to go night-night". Now all I have to do is say time to go night night. He would never let me take him from inside his cage until just recently, yes it has been 3 years but I guess for us that's how long it took, I never forced him but I do understand your predicament. Have you tried clicker training I we did that too and I believe it built a trust between us. Good luck

 

[DelilahDeviance]

Miley, I fully agree. However I don't want to be part of a forum where I am attacked for using a safe, effective training technique. I told him I appreciated his help, but was told I will never be able to handle Erin. From now on I will search elsewhere for advice. Or I will figure it out on my own. I have no desire to argue with anyone. I am handling Erin now, and I think it will only get easier to handle her. But I do think I'm done on this forum. Or at least I will only surf other threads. Clearly I need not post anything anymore.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Please don't leave Delilah.

I know I'm not the only one who would love to hear of your and Erin's adventures together AND progress.

 

[dulphinz]

I've only been on here a short time, but have found nothing but friendly people and great advice. It would be a shame for you to miss out on all this forum has to offer for one negative experience with one thread! I'd love to hear about your progress with Erin as well

 

[MikeyTN]

Miley, I fully agree. However I don't want to be part of a forum where I am attacked for using a safe, effective training technique. I told him I appreciated his help, but was told I will never be able to handle Erin. From now on I will search elsewhere for advice. Or I will figure it out on my own. I have no desire to argue with anyone. I am handling Erin now, and I think it will only get easier to handle her. But I do think I'm done on this forum. Or at least I will only surf other threads. Clearly I need not post anything anymore.

We don't want you to leave! That's why I posted what I posted, to keep everything civil. I don't disagree with your techniques or what you believe in as I've been helping along the way since you've made the thread. From being on other forums before as I've been doing birds for a long time like you have, arguments happen all the time, I've seen worse on other forums. Sometimes it's best to just step back and breath. Arguing back isn't the answer as we get no where. Basically agree to disagree and leave it at that.

But please do reconsider as your presence is appreciated like with all the members on here. I'm bi-partison here so I'm standing on everyone's side but let's focus on the importance here which is our birds. And I'm very very happy to hear your able to hold Erin now, now you just need to post a picture of you holding Erin and enter into our "Bird of the Month" that we just started.

 

[MonicaMc]

Delilah, can I jump for joy and give you a great big hug???? :60:

I'm about a year older than you, I think, and I'm often told I don't know "anything" because of my age... although even as a teenager, I helped adults caring for their birds and they didn't even realize I was younger than they were! I tended to shock people when my birthday came around... When I turned 17, someone even accused me of lying about my age, saying I was embarrassed and told everyone I was younger than I really was.... meanwhile, a mod was saying happy birthday to me!!! LOL (so I've been on both sides of the spectrum over the age thing - if anyone thinks your knowledge is lacking due to age itself)

Back then, I used the old training techniques... now? I promote positive reinforcement training! I don't believe in dominance or alpha! In fact, it infuriates me whenever someone says you have to be the "alpha" or "boss" in the "relationship"... as if birds are our slaves and they *must* do what we tell them to!

I found it amusing once when someone compared owning birds to being in a relationship - i.e. dating another person. Each of you have boundaries and no one likes to be forced to do something they don't want to! But if you make it worth their while, well, the other might reconsider! Going shopping could be dreadful, but maybe it might be fun to get some ice-cream while out? Or go to the movies? Just spending time with each other without demanding one on one attention!


I'm also in a similar situation as you, but with a much smaller [and younger] bird! I've had her for about two months now and she *does not* like hands! Well, more specifically, she does not like stepping up on hands, and if you force the issue, yup, you'll get bitten! I'm not going to be the idiot who stands there and allow her to bite my hand until she stops! That doesn't teach her anything positive and I'll be in a lot of pain! I can't understand why anyone in their right mind would stand there and allow their macaw to bite until they "give up"! It makes no sense to me!

My little girl is also clipped, and I feel horrible doing any kind of training with her because she *IS* clipped. It feels as if its hindering her, not making it easier to work with her. If she does try to fly, she ends up thumping on the ground. Since she's been here for two months now, she's lost her two outer flights and they should be nearly fully grown now (I do worry she'll break them!). She's lost two more, which I expect are the 2nd feathers in from the outside, but she only lost those two last week, so I don't expect to know for sure which feathers those are until they've grown out.

She doesn't like being left behind, but wont step up. She loves scritches, but hates being on hands. She loves kisses and physical interaction but she'll run away 90% of the time when I ask her if she wants up on my shoulder.


If it makes you feel any better, I don't agree with JJones either! His methods can work for him, and we'll use the ones that work for us *AND* our birds!




Other than finding out Erin's reinforcers, I don't think I have any advice for you that you probably don't already know! And congratulations on finally being able to start the training process with her! She's probably a bit slow because she is unaware of it, but I'm sure she'll pick it up quickly once she understands!

And I, too, would love to hear of any training progress with her!!! :emoticonc