SOS ... Raylan Beak Wound

[Rynkydynk]

Hi everyone =)
Raylan's vet update ...

The wound is actually a puncture and a shallow missing chunk right next to it. She checked it with a flashlight and said it didn't seem too deep. I asked her to further inspect it and for xrays as well because I require a lot of reassurance when my babies are concerned lol She assured me it wasn't necessary but I insisted. She took him out of the room for a good 15 minutes, during which time I could hear him squawking.

When she brought him back, the beak flakes had been removed which was awesome because I didn't want to do it and was afraid he might catch them on something and end up with further damage.

End result, both wounds are superficial. I told her that he is a messy eater still on formula and even though superficial, I was worried about infection. I was instructed to keep it clean, wipe with baby wipes after feeding then rinse with saline and apply Neosporin. Additionally, throughout the day as I see fit, rinse with saline and apply Neosporin. She also said not to freak out if he has a huge bruise this morning but he doesn't.

Oh, aaaand she said that if he messes with it and it bleeds out that it may end up forming a scab. If this is the case, I will have to bring him back to have the scab professionally removed. If not, the wound will heal and the scar will grow down his beak over time and eventually be worn or filed off.

Last but not least ... she said that he is "over-bonded" to me and suggested that I put him in his travel crate in a room where he cannot see me with music or tv loud enough so he can't hear me for a minimum 2 hour period per day until he becomes more independent. Please tell me that is wrong ... I could never do that!! He is only 21 weeks old

 

[Rynkydynk]

Ooops ... premature post

I want to extend my heartfelt gratitude to everyone for your concern, warmth, kindess, support, comfort and advice

 

[JerseyWendy]

Thank you so much for the update!!!!

I honestly don't know what the vet think will be accomplished by shoving Raylan into a travel container and out of your sight for 2 hours per day. Socialization is important. Getting him used to 'strangers' is important, too. The more places you can take him, the more people you can get him to comfortably and willingly step up to, the better.

Is he harness trained? If you can get him into a harness, you can take him places, which will benefit Raylan greatly. He'll get a lot of confidence that way.

 

[Kiwibird]

Last but not least ... she said that he is "over-bonded" to me and suggested that I put him in his travel crate in a room where he cannot see me with music or tv loud enough so he can't hear me for a minimum 2 hour period per day until he becomes more independent. Please tell me that is wrong ... I could never do that!! He is only 21 weeks old

First, I am glad he's ok and it was just a minor bump!

Second, while over bonding is a serious problem, I don't get how an unweaned baby can already be over bonded I would encourage independent play once he's old enough to have a cage and play with toys, and I would also be sure he's getting socialized. To my knowledge, that is how you encourage an independent, social bird. Not stick them in a crate with nothing to do in another room and drown out their cries with TV. That seems like a recipe for disaster.

It sickens me to talk about, but before we adopted him, thats what not one, but 2 owners did to my amazon (stuck him in a cat create to languish, only it occurred over many years to him). Let me say, "over bonding" was the least of his issues after that. I just can't stomach the thought of a bird having that done to it, especially a sensitive, sweet, loving little baby!

 

[Birdman666]

Thank you so much for the update!!!!

I honestly don't know what the vet think will be accomplished by shoving Raylan into a travel container and out of your sight for 2 hours per day. Socialization is important. Getting him used to 'strangers' is important, too. The more places you can take him, the more people you can get him to comfortably and willingly step up to, the better.

Is he harness trained? If you can get him into a harness, you can take him places, which will benefit Raylan greatly. He'll get a lot of confidence that way.

AGREED.

I disagree with the shoving him in a travel cage advice... and that does nothing for overbonding anyway. ABSOLUTELY NOT!

THE CURE FOR OVERBONDING IS BEING HANDLED BY MORE PEOPLE OTHER THAN YOU... shoving the bird in a travel cage for no reason, only serves to cause the bird to feel isolated and abandoned... which is NOT healthy at all.

YOU DO NEED TO TEACH THE BIRD TO SELF ENTERTAIN, AND YOU CAN'T HOLD IT ALL THE TIME... OR YOU CREATE A MONSTER THAT HAS TO BE HELD ALL THE TIME... (That's what playstands and toys are for. NOT a travel crate! Horrible advice!)

And ALL pair bond birds have a tendency to overbond. The more socialization you give them, the more social they become, and the less of a problem this is.

Sitting alone in a travel cage is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of socialization.

 

[Birdman666]

Although, IF YOU WANT TO TEACH HIM TO SCREAM BLOODY MURDER, shoving him in a travel crate would probably do it...

My greenwing would probably tolerate it for six tenths of a second... before informing you (and pretty much the entire neighborhood) that she was unhappy with this arrangement and wanted out!

 

[SilverSage]

Ok. All respect to vets, they are very important. BUT THEY ARE NOT TRAINING OR BEHAVIOR EXPERTS. Not that I am, but honestly some of THE WORST advice I have received has been from vets. Yes, over bonding/over dependance can become your worst nightmare. The answer, as has been said, is MORE socialization, play stands, toys, learning to entertain himself. NOT learning that being apart from you means being locked in a dark place alone with the tv blaring! That will just make him MORE clingy out of fear, and good luck getting him into the carrier very many times because pretty soon he is going to figure out that the carrier means isolation and he is going to do whatever he can to avoid it.

So take her MEDICAL advice, and leave it at that. What she is suggesting is counterproductive and mean and will just mess him up. I highly suggest and aviator harness btw

 

[Birdman666]

Well...

I kinda don't have much respect for a vet that would dish out that sort of behavioral advice. Why would you give THIS kind of advice. If somone follows it they screw up their bird...

And are you giving your macaw fresh grit everyday?! To my thinking this person should be a tad more enlightened. But then there are still vets out there that cut the wrong feathers for a simple wing clipping, or "show" clip and the bird is still flighted. Or butcher the wings so brutally that the bird has the glide ratio of a rock...

 

[SilverSage]

Me(at vet with eclectus): She has been seizing. She was on pellets for the last 10 years, but I have switched her to a fresh diet.
vet: Oh, well, pellets are great.
later on...
Vet: I can giver her (insert drug) to make her stop siezing, but once it wears off she will start again so you will have to leave her here.
me:For how long?
vet:Well she would have to stay; when it wears off the problem will come back.
me: so she needs to start this drug, can never come off of it, and only you can give it to her, and she has to stay here for it.
vet:yes.
Me: and will she be alert? Will she be in pain?
Vet: we don't know if she will be in pain, but she will most likely be asleep most of the time.
Me: so you want me to drug her to sleep, forever, and leave her here in the hospital with you, maybe in pain, for as long as she survives?
vet:well we would need to crop tube her...


Different vet
Me (at vet with baby bird): Do you see a lot of baby birds?
vet: Anyone hand feeding should gavage feed. Just put the tube down into the crop every time. It is the only responsible way to do it.


Me (at vet with my dog): Nice to meet you
Vet (Without even making eye contact with me or pausing to let the dog think): *reaches out and grabs my dog's mouth, pries it open to look at is teeth, and then jerks her hands back*: Well he got snappy with me, you need to work on that.
me:he just closed his mouth...

I go to the vet when I have to for the health of my bird. There are medical things that they know that I don't, but a lot of them seem to think they know about a lot more than they actually do!

 

[Birdman666]

I was fortunate where I used to live, in that we had two of the top three avian vet centers in the country nearby... and I knew most of them through the bird rescue, and they new me, and my birds...

I had vets I could actually trust...

I've also WALKED OUT on vets, that I've questioned, and frankly, THEY FLUNKED THE QUIZ. Uuummm... no... you're not touching my bird.

I only go to avian certified vets, and I do tend to quiz before I allow them to do stuff...

My vet in California actually had HIS staff behaviorist come in and observe a procedure on one of my macaws... just because, well, it was me, and I told him we could do it this way. YEAH RIGHT. Get in here... you wanna see something?!

So let me get this straight. We're not going to use a towel. You're going to play with this bird on your lap. Get her to flip over, stick your finger in her beak, and then leave it there, while I stick a needle in her neck and do a blood draw? And you're fine with that?! Wait... wait... I want my behaviorist to observe this one...

Well, I'll be... that's kind of unusual. Didn't even flinch.

Yeah. Pea Pod plays hard on her back.

I've got ONE vet here that I trust. I've visited with THREE...

ONE OF THEM REALLY, REALLY PISSED ME OFF... and I'll never go back there.

 

[MangoandKiwi]

Happy to hear the vet visit went well!

 

[Mariar]

I would love to find a really good vet in my area. When doolie was sick I feel like the vet was bothered by all my phone calls and that he was just in it for the money.
Same with my sugar gliders..you say you know exotics, but then you admit to me that you had to skype a medical procedure with another vet because you had no clue...never went back

 

[Birdman666]

I would love to find a really good vet in my area. When doolie was sick I feel like the vet was bothered by all my phone calls and that he was just in it for the money.
Same with my sugar gliders..you say you know exotics, but then you admit to me that you had to skype a medical procedure with another vet because you had no clue...never went back

Right, exactly... can you give me the name of THAT vet. That's the guy I want to go to...

 

[Captsteve]

I would love to find a really good vet in my area. When doolie was sick I feel like the vet was bothered by all my phone calls and that he was just in it for the money.
Same with my sugar gliders..you say you know exotics, but then you admit to me that you had to skype a medical procedure with another vet because you had no clue...never went back

Right, exactly... can you give me the name of THAT vet. That's the guy I want to go to...

Mark, Me thinks I detect a note of sarcasm in your tone! lol

 

[JerseyWendy]

Mark, Me thinks I detect a note of sarcasm in your tone! lol

Mark? Sarcasm? Never, not our Mark. :54: :21:

 

[Birdman666]

No! Seriously...

The guy you want to go to is the guy all the other vet's call for advice...

find out who he is, and THAT'S IT the only guy who touches my birds is THAT guy...

And you pick his brain for tips and tricks when ever possible.

 

[Captsteve]

Got it! you want the one that got the Skype call! Duh!!!

 

[Flboy]

I would love to find a really good vet in my area. When doolie was sick I feel like the vet was bothered by all my phone calls and that he was just in it for the money.
Same with my sugar gliders..you say you know exotics, but then you admit to me that you had to skype a medical procedure with another vet because you had no clue...never went back

Have you asked henpecked? He is in our neighborhood.

 

[Mariar]

No I haven't asked him but should..never know when I'll need to get to a vet with sissy

 

[SilverSage]

Unfortunately we don't seem to have any REAL bird vets. Some of the clinics CLAIM to have avian certified vets on staff, but upon further inquiry it seems they think that means "on record as willing to see birds." So far the BEST vet experience I have had was when two GCCs got heavy metal toxicity. I discussed what was going on with my friend (And drug dealer, I mean favorite breeder!) and she said it was almost certainly heavy metal, and why she thought that. I got to the vet, he was stumped. I asked him if it could be heavy metal, and why I thought that. He said it could be, and went and dug out his text books. Came back, said that is probably what it is. We discussed treatment, he was very respectful and understood that I had the knowledge and tools to do at home everything he could do for them in the hospital, but he gave them sub-Q fluids. He then went and photo copied the whole section in his book about heavy metal in birds, and gave it to me to read (after basically telling me what it said). As I left in the middle of the night, he came running out the door after me, because he had found a tiny detail to add to the treatment at home, and wanted to make sure I knew about it.

None of the vets here really know birds, but at least this one:
-Cared about my birds
-Was honest about what he did and didn't know, and what he was doing to find the answers instead of pretending he already had them
-Respected me and my capabilities, opinions, and concerns
-Didn't try to charge me with anything I didnt need to be charged with, didnt charge an emergency fee,