Sorry for another question... we've just come back from the vet...

[FiFee Fiona]

We just had a vet visit.
I thought best to check on him over preening.
I'm in Australia so the meds maybe have different names..?
So he's moulting. It's cold here and he's dropping feathers
They did a crop and faecal wash.
Found bacterial infection in crop and yeast in his poop.
Have meds to give for 10 days.
Enrotril oral and Fungilin drops.
What I'm wondering is how long could he have had this. And if it's something I've done.
Fed him something he shouldn't... ?
I should have asked but I had so many questions and forgot.
I am very careful what he eats and what he chews.
I've had him 6 months.
Could he have had these before he came to me?
Not sure if any of you had this experience and might share some insight please ..
At least it gives me an idea of why he's unhappy ...
Thanks

 

[ravvlet]

I'm so sorry your feathered friend is going through this. Some birds can be more prone than others to bacterial issues and yeast. If you are worried it's something in his environment, can you call the vet and ask? I do it to mine all the time (I get, "Oh, you're Kirby's owner!" now, which... can't tell if good or bad, lol) and they've always been able to give me great guidance.

I know our big guy is prone to bacterial problems so we screen him for them more often. It may not be your fault at all. The best thing to do is to make sure his cage and play areas are very clean; it will reduce bacterial load and help him recover more quickly.

 

[FiFee Fiona]

I'm so sorry your feathered friend is going through this. Some birds can be more prone than others to bacterial issues and yeast. If you are worried it's something in his environment, can you call the vet and ask? I do it to mine all the time (I get, "Oh, you're Kirby's owner!" now, which... can't tell if good or bad, lol) and they've always been able to give me great guidance.

I know our big guy is prone to bacterial problems so we screen him for them more often. It may not be your fault at all. The best thing to do is to make sure his cage and play areas are very clean; it will reduce bacterial load and help him recover more quickly.

I started to wonder if I'm cleaning it all too much ....
He hasn't shown classic signs from what I've read.
He's basically cranky. The vet said the moult he's going through would not be helping.
I do have birds that go to the bird bath outside. But I'm really careful not to let any of the water on me ...
And I don't put him out there.
He gets veggies .. some berries .. pellets and a tropical bird mix. And I do let him have some of my potato or veggies or a tiny bit of toast.
She thought the diet was fine. Maybe I'm over thinking it.
What symptoms does your bird show if he gets an infection? Is it obvious....

 

[ravvlet]

It depends. His poop gets really smelly and he gets quieter if it's something with his digestive track or otherwise internal. If it's an infection in his nares, he has colored discharge, and I can hear either whistling from his nostrils or he is breathing entirely through his beak as his nares are fully clogged.

Broccoli can ALSO sometimes result in smelly poop, so that can confuse things. If he's playing with his toys and seems happy, and his stool is well formed, I don't worry too much if I can occasionally smell his droppings & I know he's eating broccoli, lol.

Mostly, if he stops playing with his toys, is sleeping a lot, or seems quieter and more unsteady than usual, we assume something is going on and investigate. He gets his blood drawn and a culture for his nares & fecal done every year even if we don't think anything is going on - well, it's more like every six months for him. However, he is a bit older (we were told he's in his 30s but his vet & another experienced parrot handler both said he looks older than that) and he has a few pre-existing health issues that make him prone to infections.

Sometimes it can be genetic. Before he passed, it seemed like every time we had bloodwork done on our cockatiel something was off - and it was never the same thing either, heh. He was also very, very small for a tiel and had to be given baby bird formula as a supplement for a long time just to get his weight up.

 

[FiFee Fiona]

It depends. His poop gets really smelly and he gets quieter if it's something with his digestive track or otherwise internal. If it's an infection in his nares, he has colored discharge, and I can hear either whistling from his nostrils or he is breathing entirely through his beak as his nares are fully clogged.

Broccoli can ALSO sometimes result in smelly poop, so that can confuse things. If he's playing with his toys and seems happy, and his stool is well formed, I don't worry too much if I can occasionally smell his droppings & I know he's eating broccoli, lol.

Mostly, if he stops playing with his toys, is sleeping a lot, or seems quieter and more unsteady than usual, we assume something is going on and investigate. He gets his blood drawn and a culture for his nares & fecal done every year even if we don't think anything is going on - well, it's more like every six months for him. However, he is a bit older (we were told he's in his 30s but his vet & another experienced parrot handler both said he looks older than that) and he has a few pre-existing health issues that make him prone to infections.

Sometimes it can be genetic. Before he passed, it seemed like every time we had bloodwork done on our cockatiel something was off - and it was never the same thing either, heh. He was also very, very small for a tiel and had to be given baby bird formula as a supplement for a long time just to get his weight up.

Oh geez mines stuffs himself on broccoli... loves it. Snow peas too. He pooped red the other day ... he'd had dried red chili and then raspberry....
He has sign of respiratory problems. And he has a nap on my shoulder but he's not tired or fluffy.
The vet didn't seem concerned. So I'll just give him his meds and hope it's OK

 

[stephenst4470]

Fungi are everywhere. Lot's of both fungi and bacteria are opportunistic, so concurrent infections aren't at all uncommon. When a bird (or us, or any other animal) gets an infection, the immune response is focused elsewhere, so something that normally wouldn't be pathogenic can take off. Just give him his meds, and take common sense hygiene and cleaning precautions. I certainly wouldn't beat myself up over it.

 

[LeeC]

Ask your avian vet about prebiotics and probiotics. You can get them yourself, but your vet likely has access to better quality products and can guide you on proper use.

Ideally, parrots would have and maintain healthy digestive bacteria from natural sources: regurgitation from healthy parents and/or mate; "live"/raw food that has not been cooked, irradiated, pasteurized or even washed excessively, etc.

Captive diets and antibiotics are hard on the good bacteria, too, though, which can throw off the balance.

"It is extremely important to remember that your bird's digestive tract requires a healthy gut flora. To ensure this, raw foods need to be fed — organic, raw papaya, pineapple, and slightly green banana — even if it means that these foods have to be transitioned into your bird's diet slowly so that gastric upset is not caused."

— You Can't Take the Rainforest Out of the Bird... ...feeding exitic birds redally, really well​

 

[HeatherG]

I think you’re over thinking this.

I really doubt you can clean too much. Bacteria and fungi are everywhere. No way to tell how long she’s had this issue. Most birds have a small % of the pathogenic microorganism; just for some reason this population has overgrown and become imbalanced in your bird.

 

[LeeC]

I think you’re over thinking this.

I really doubt you can clean too much. Bacteria and fungi are everywhere.

I think you're under thinking this. :] The microorganism "biome" on the outside (skin) of a grape is quite different from the microorganism biome inside the grape, for example. (I know this from a decade of being far too deep in the winemaking world.) This is precisely why grapes have a skin—to protect the inside from the outside world. Washing too much does change things. It greatly reduces the presence of good microorganisms that only live on the outside of living food, or those that can be abundant on the outside but not on the inside.

I am not recommending to give unwashed produce to a parrot, unless you grew it yourself. I am saying that washing produce, as we do in captivity, affects our parrots' digestive biome in a way that does not happen in the wild. Even rainfall does not wash produce the way our food system does, and we personally do, with rubbing, scrubbing, hot water, food-cleaner products, etc. But, we do it for valid reason, for example, because "dirty" hands touched that food before it got to us. Or, because we did not get "organic" produce, and we are trying to wash off the toxins (pesticides, fungicides, etc.) from the produce (some get absorbed into the produce).

Most birds have a small % of the pathogenic microorganism; just for some reason this population has overgrown and become imbalanced in your bird.

At least part of the "some reason" for overgrowth of bad microorganism populations is an insufficient amount of good microorganisms to keep them in check—that is, to compete with them. A flourishing population of good microorganisms is the best defense against an overpopulation of bad microorganisms.

 

[HeatherG]

But the most reliable way to get a population of “good” microorganisms is to use a probiotic or inoculum from a healthy bird. And if your bird has some health or immune issues the biota that he maintains will be different from the biota a healthy bird maintains.

It’s very hard to quantify and all we can really do is maintain our birds in good health and reasonable cleanliness. Unless you want to keep your bird in an isolette and handle it through a glove box. Whereupon you will have a bird who has gut upsets from whacked out gut biota.

 

[Tziporiah]

But the most reliable way to get a population of “good” microorganisms is to use a probiotic or inoculum from a healthy bird. And if your bird has some health or immune issues the biota that he maintains will be different from the biota a healthy bird maintains.

It’s very hard to quantify and all we can really do is maintain our birds in good health and reasonable cleanliness. Unless you want to keep your bird in an isolette and handle it through a glove box. Whereupon you will have a bird who has gut upsets from whacked out gut biota.

My birds have smelly droppings and I took one to the vet and she said don't worry about it just keep an eye on her to make sure she has no respiratory issues any suggestions

 

[DonnaBudgie]

What do they smell like?

 

[Tziporiah]

What do they smell like?

Not ammonia

 

[rheashard2]

I am enjoying this thread. I tend to over think things. Especially about my feathered owner. I treat my avian vet like my doctor. Especially if they are of the Dr Watch It or Dr DoNotWorry type. I ask why not, what should I look for, what should I expect if you recommend 'y' instead of 'x' all this with Why. I top it off with asking for lay reading sources. My avian and canine vet go overboard with answering me. Sometimes if something is said with slightly different wording things pop into place. I keep a brief journal of worrying things. A few weeks ago I told avian vet my CAG sneezed 4 times in succession x2 at 1400 and 1600 on same day. I had room temp, etc. Exam neg. Yes, overboard but a few years ago same info and she had beginnings of respiratory infection. One thing this vet told me was if in doubt about fresh veggies to blanch them. It was better than washing. No, not a cook. Had to ask my canning whiz sister what to do!