Son of a $%#*&! AVIAN GASTRIC YEAST!

[Teddscau]

Allow me to swear for a moment using random keyboard symbols. Guess what? One of the lab techs accidentally did a gram stain test on Tiki's poop, and it turns out they have $$%#$#$ avian gastric yeast! AVIAN FILTHY GASTRIC YEAST! HOLY FUDGE! JUST AMAZING STUFF HAPPENING! YES!!!!!!!

Okay, so, there's this thing I've always practiced where I try to learn about every freaking medical test on the planet so I can request them for my birds. Apparently, with all the stupid crop swabs, fecal floats, parasite tests, blood tests, cloacal swabs, sinus flush, x-rays, and every other procedure on the planet, NOBODY DID A FREAKING GRAM STAINING! WTH! Seriously, they've been seen by at least three vets, and it turns out nobody did a freaking gram staining! I've spent over $3000 on these birds, and nobody picked that up? Freaking animal shelter gave me disease riddled birds!? I'm going to send the Kitchener Humane Society a strongly worded email! SO STRONGLY WORDED. Well, I guess poor little Alice might've introduced it to the aviary.

I'm sooo calm right now. Hahhh. Okay, so I have to get all my other birds tested. Great. I'll send a ton of poop to Dr. Morris since he's really inexpensive. But right now, I need to cleanse everything with fire! Or just some good quality disinfectant. There will be so much disinfectant. Guess what? I'm getting out the heavy duty pump bottle. You know, the one that automatically sprays after you pump it to build up pressure.

Legit, AGY is like HIV. You can manage it, but holy fudge, don't let the birds get stressed or let them come in contact with any sort of pathogen. We. Are. Going. To. Clean. It's gonna be like the CDC swooped in. I'm going to be cleaning constantly. I'm in bad shape right now, but in a month's time, I'll look like a freaking Olympian. Fudge, guess what? All my birds are ground foragers. Do you know what's always on the floor? Bird poop. What's in this bird poop? Freaking AGY. So. Much. Cleaning.

 

[Mindy]

oh no!!!!!

 

[Teddscau]

Yeah, pain in the butt! Spent forever disinfecting tonight to kill bacteria and viruses to prevent secondary infection, but I still have to soak everything in apple cider vinegar to scare away the AGY. They're drinking nothing but water with ACV from here on out. Going to soak everything in ACV every other day. Washing their dishes twice a day as usual, but I'm going to rinse them with ACV afterwards to help prevent the avian gastric yeast from accumulating in the dishes.

Going to be bathing them in diluted ACV. There's going to be a lot of ACV everywhere. What a pain. Bet some of the budgies have it too. Not in the mood for medicating them for 28 day, too. Have to, though. Budgies are brutal biters (only Lara and Rumi are gentle).

Everyone finished the chop, so I'll have to make more, but I'm so tired. Takes forever since I weigh everything and cut it by hand -_-

 

[bigfellasdad]

I havent a clue what you are going on about but ill read up tomorrow. Loving your rant and feeling your pain.

 

[Teddscau]

Just finished soaking the aviary with apple cider vinegar. My eyes burn when I go in now (really need to air it out. Poor birds!). Still have to do the kākāriki cage, but I'll do that after I shower. I'm going to be changing the newspapers in their cage daily now. Still need to pick up the Amphotericin B from the Bowmanville vet (it's almost an hour away -_-). Oh, I made up the chop today in less than 40 minutes! New record! I mixed in probiotics before serving it to them. Need to have healthy gut flora competing with the AGY.

Phoned Dr. Morris (cheap local vet) about testing the poop, but the receptionist hasn't phoned back yet. Guess I'll phone again after my shower. Oh, I put some thyme in with the lentils and mungbeans I cooked for the chop. Hopefully the thyme will help with the AGY. I read on that German budgie website that someone treated her boy with thyme and anise tea and it helped eliminate the AGY. Even if it doesn't eliminate it, throwing all sorts of fungal fighting foods at them should help weaken the disease.

Basically, my plan is to annoy the heck out of the AGY (acidic environment, acidic water, competing against healthy intestinal flora, anti-fungal herbs), clean constantly so they don't come in contact with more AGY, medication, and reduce the amount of stress the birds experience (not that they experience a whole lot). I'm going to try to keep my birds nice and happy, since a happy animal has a stronger immune system.

I know AGY is a pain to cure, but I'm going to fight this thing so hard that the disease will WANT to die >

Oh, and big fella, AGY is one of my most feared illnesses. It's right up there with PBFD and psittacosis. It's such a pain because birds continually reinfect themselves with the disease. It's a lifelong disease that you have to constantly watch for. Left untreated for too long, the birds slowly wastes away. Upon autopsy, they're often filled with gastric ulcers from the yeast eating away at their digestive tract. A bird could be fine for years, until suddenly they start vomiting one day. Fudge. No. The budgies are constantly feeding each other! Well, fudge, I know we're only supposed to treat those with large amounts of AGY, but I feel as though everyone should be medicated since they're constantly sharing tummy germs with each other. Seriously, everyone is constantly regurgitating for everyone else. Maybe that's why it's so common in budgies. Fudge, seriously, it's REALLY HARD to medicate budgies. 90% of the medicine ends up in their lungs, and the rest ends up being flung onto my face.

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

Well, for crying out loud.
SOOOOO sorry.
I looked around a bit, and read that it is not uncommonly "carried" by birds showing no signs/symtpoms. Scary!
https://www.environment.gov.au/syst...62-35d9ddcb4a36/files/avian-gastric-yeast.pdf
I also found some reading material here on the Forums...
Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community - Search Results
I'm shocked that no gram tests were performed until now...
I don't mean to be rash or rude, but... have you found the right vet... yet?
Hang in there... best of luck to you and your flock.

 

[Teddscau]

Oh, no problem! I've chosen Dr. Yee because she's the most knowledgable, compassionate vet I've found, and her and I actually work together as a sort of medical team for my birds. A lot of vets don't take the things you say seriously or are dismissive, but she actually respects what I have to say and we actually discuss different ideas together. She actually treats me like should would a colleague. Oh, and as for the gram test, Dr. Yee couldn't believe we'd never done one until now. Heck, even I thought we'd done a gram stain at some point.

Honestly, AGY's been in the back of my mind for years. I actually pray on a regular basis asking God to keep my birds from ever coming in contact with it. Honestly, you can do everything in your power to prevent this disease (quarantine, extensive testing, good diet, sanitary conditions, etc.), but if you keep birds long enough, you'll eventually unwittingly expose your birds to it.

Honestly, the same thing happened with my fish, but with piscine tuberculosis. Before really getting into birds, I kept fish. Big tank, excellent diet, low stress, compatible tank mates, weekly water change, live plants, plenty of hiding places, lots of enrichment, knew about all the different medical information and whatnot. Like, they were cared for as well as your wife cares for her bird. However, my tanks were infected with TB. One by one, my fish died from mysterious illnesses. I desperately searched for a cause. We had pineconing, bloat, popeye, holes appearing in the sides of their bodies, strange growths, stunted growths... None of those are symptoms of TB. I knew all the different bacterial, viral, fungal, parasitic, nutritional, genetic, and water chemistry-related illnesses, but I couldn't figure out what was wrong. People on the fish forum accused me of being a liar, my parents accused me of imagining things, and the vet said nothing was wrong. I finally had a couple of mollies sent away to be tested, and it turned out it was TB. People doubted me and laughed at me for providing for their behavioural, physical, and emotional needs, rather than just keeping them in inhumane conditions. Despite being a good mom, I had to watch as they all died. I euthanized over a dozen fish myself. This better not be the outcome with my birds. I need to always trust my gut and do everything I can.

Man, I'm getting really depressed. History always repeats itself. Whenever I try my hardest, things always seem to turn out bad. My animals end up suffering even though I do everything right. It's animals who receive poor diets, little mental stimulation, poor sanitation, cramped enclosures, and just an overall horrible life who end up living while my guys die prematurely.

Shoot, forgot to thank you for the links! Thanks!

 

[GaleriaGila]

What a helpful rival!

Yes, good luck to you and your flock.

I, too, wonder about the vet issue.

 

[dhraiden]

I'm in bad shape right now, but in a month's time, I'll look like a freaking Olympian.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M"]"Always Look On . . ."[/ame]

 

[plumsmum2005]

Sorry to hear this. Some more info FYI Birds Online - Health and diseases - Infectious diseases - Avian gastric yeast (AGY, megabacteriosis) and going light syndrome

This mentions the tea you talked of.

 

[Teddscau]

Thanks for the support, everyone. Wait, do I need a comma there? So, I got a hold of Dr. Morris earlier and he said he can do the gram stain or whatever and for me to collect fresh samples tomorrow morning and to drop them off. I...don't really feel like collecting the poop from the other seven kids, since it'll be a pain getting up in the morning and waiting in the aviary for each of them to poop so I can put it in labelled baggies. I mean, I have to do it and I'm definitely going to do it, but it's going to be a bit of a pain to do. Not to mention I should get at least a couple of samples from each bird. And whenever I go down there wanting to collect poop, it seems like they all hold it in just to make things more challenging for me -_-

Right, so I disinfected the kākāriki cage then soaked it in apple cider vinegar. Tiki was worried the whole time and wouldn't shut his mouth, so that was annoying. Man, it sounds like I'm a horrible person. I swear, I love these guys and I'm always patient with them, it's just that I'm really tired. I spent two hours sanitizing that stupid cage, so I'm exhausted.

Oh, I've been feeding the kākāriki bugs every day since Tuesday. Been giving them waxworms, butterworms, and mealworms, but they seem to prefer the wax and butter. You should see them suck the guts out of them. All that's left afterwards is a shrivelled husk.

 

[Teddscau]

Been down there since 9:30...I've only collected samples from three birds! See, I told you they wouldn't cooperate. Literally, all they have to do is poop, but it's the same three birds pooping! Samantha's stomach hurts, so I don't think she'll be pooping for me -_-. Noah won't even poop for me! He poops on me constantly when I have him out, but he didn't poop once during the 60+ minutes he was assisting me in the collection! I don't even think Rumi is eating (slight brain damage) this morning!

I'm pretty sure the kākāriki have eaten all the bugs I bought for them (I've been giving them at least five a day because they need the fat and protein). I'll have to have my dad pick up more. Going to have him pick up some hornworms and superworms this time, too. Once the kākāriki get stronger, I won't have to feed them as many insects. At this point, I'm just trying to make up for lost time. I find it kind of strange that parrot supply stores don't sell dried insects. I mean, I know bugs are by no means a staple in the diets of many species, but kākāriki, greys, cockatoos, corvids, finches, Canaries, sparrows, pigeons and doves?, and quail should be fed bugs every now and then. I know Noah enjoys a nice juicy bug every now and then.

Going to have Dad pick up a thing of waxworms, a thing of butterworms, three hornworms, 6 superworms/king mealworms, and 12 mealworms. I'll have him check for Phoenix worms and canned silkworms. Doubt they'll have any. I really want those Phoenix worms, though! I think I'll have to wait until spring so I can order silkworms and Phoenix worms online.

I'm going to have lunch, then see if I can get more poop. If not, we'll just take in what I've collected so far, then drop off additional samples at a later time.

Man, everything's still surprisingly clean. Would've thought poop would be smeared everywhere by now. Ugh, poor Ria. Mom gave her a bath under the tap after we medicated her. She somehow got mushy green poop on her back and under her wings. I thought Mom was just going to give her a sponge bath with a wet cloth, but I walked in on the two of them in the bathroom, Mom holding her under the tap while she rinsed Ria off. Mom said Ria enjoyed it, which I questioned, but considering she wasn't tearing Mom apart and was calm when she went back in the cage... Then again, kākāriki love to bathe.


EDIT
Great. Samantha's unable to poop, can barely keep her eyes open, and is dry heaving. I actually had to grab her with my hand and remove a hard little ball of poop to put in a baggy. She's obviously extremely ill, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to grab her and I'd be using steri strips to hold my fingers together.

Rumi, on the other hand, hasn't pooped at all today, I don't think. She's quiet, her eyes are heavy, she won't play with her mahogany pods, isn't eating (she did drink, though), and isn't trying to beat up Noah when he touches her. This can only mean one thing—she's experiencing another neurological episode. Hopefully Pollo and Noah feed her enough.

Oh, and Noah. The little piece of garbage viciously attacked me earlier. I almost punched him in the face (I know, it was a close call). Yeah, so he would poop during the four hours I was in there, so I had to stuff him full of sunflower seeds. His chest is definitely sounding crackly, so he definitely has an infection...probably. Freaking great. Should I just medicate him with Baytril? Like, I know I shouldn't be medicating all willynilly, but come on. Maybe he's been more of a pain than usual because he has a respiratory infection? I'll use my stethoscope on him in a moment. If so, I need to get him on medicine. Man, I feel kind of bad about getting upset with him earlier. If he's not feeling very well, then of course he'd be acting like an idiot.

Cool! Dad just phoned, and apparently I didn't collect enough from Samantha, Ziggy, or Pollo! Awesome! Apparently the stupid cotton swab smushed the poop all over the cotton part. Apparently I'm supposed to only use the paper stick part. Yeah, I know, but guess what? You know how you always put rope, vacuum cords, chargers, and necklaces away neatly? But as soon as you take them out, it's a tangled mess? Or like how all socks have a matching buddy, but somehow you end up with dozens of socks without a match? Yeah, well, the cotton swabs have a mind of their own too and they attacked the poop samples while I wasn't looking. As for Samantha, what the heck am I supposed to do? She isn't vomiting (she's trying to vomit, but her crop and tummy are empty), and she isn't pooping (again, she's trying to, but only an ittybitty amount of urates are dribbling onto her tushy). And I'm not even bothering with Rumi because she's in too much of a vegetative state at the moment. Holy fudge, my day's going great, how about yours?

 

[Teddscau]

Want an update? Well, you're getting one.

My parents drove all the way to Bowmanville yesterday to pick up the Amphotericin B. The kākāriki had their first dose last night, and it went quite well. I tasted a bit of it to see if I'd need to mask its wretched taste with juice or something, but it turns out that it's pretty bland and tastes a bit salty, so no need to mix it with juice.

The medicine is surprisingly yellow, and the little butts fling it all over the windows outside the aviary in the basement. Whatever. Oh, they're on it for 30 days twice a day, which is always a fun way to spend a solid month. Although, they've been on medicine almost non-stop since adopting them last March, so this isn't really anything new.

Fudge, you should see the poops the kākāriki have been having the past few days. They are so unhealthy! They look slimy and are either disgustingly green or jet black. Fudge, yeah, definitely looks like they have AGY. Freaking nasty.

Ever since being given the bad news on Tuesday, I've been giving everyone water with apple cider vinegar in it, chop with probiotics and citric acid mixed in, and I've been more diligent about cleaning. I've been soaking their branches in apple cider vinegar to try to further acidify their environment to make it more inhospitable for the AGY. Hoping everything turns out okay and nobody dies . Still waiting on the results for Noah, Ju, and Lara. I'll have to collect proper samples for Samantha, Pollo, Ziggy, and Rumi tomorrow. Samantha's quite ill though, so I just don't know. Worse comes to worse, I have some vomit and feces with undigested seeds in it. I know, it's terrible. I don't know if it's food sensitivities that are making her so sick or if she has AGY which is causing her to react poorly to so many different foods. I don't think she's dying, but she's definitely not doing well. I don't know if I should stop giving them the chop and seeing if she does better or what. Honestly, I had her for 14 years without a problem, but the last two years I've had to be so careful! She's a really strong bird, and for her to be having problems because of food...it doesn't make sense.

 

[Violet_Diva]

I've been following your threads but am at a loss as to what to say.
Just trying to imagine how stressful all this must be for you, blows my mind. Having that many fids, and when it rains - boy does it pour!

Just keep being a soldier of sanitation. Sounds like you're doing as well as you can be. I wonder if there's any foods that are more easily digestible or super nourishing for Samantha to try?

Keep updating when you can. I suspect many people are following your story and just don't have any advice to contribute, so please don't stop updating.

Wishing you and your fids a speedy recovery!

 

[Teddscau]

Thanks . I hope you guys don't think any less of me due to the confrontations I've been having with Noah. Honestly, I think it's all the stress over the AGY that has me on edge. He was in a mood yesterday, too. He flew right onto my shoulder, said "pretty bird" clear as day, was so excited to see me, then he aggressively chomped down on my lip twice. Honestly, I lost it with him and went to grab him with my hand. I wasn't going to hurt him or yell at him or anything like that, but I totally lost my cool. I just had to walk away, talk things out with my mom for a few minutes, then go back to him.

He was happy to see me and was very expressive and was making different sound effects, but of course, as soon as soon as I started putting some millet on a plate for them, he started lunging at my fingers and threatening me. I was calm, though, and just ignored him. I told him that I wasn't upset with him and I apologized for reacting poorly earlier. I told him that he wasn't doing anything wrong and that I understood he wasn't in control of his actions. Then he started trying to bite my forearm while I was holding seed in my hand for Rumi, but he couldn't bite down because my arm's too big . Man, he spent at least three minutes rubbing his beak acrossed my arm, trying to take a chunk out of me. It was kind of funny.

Been feeding the kākāriki a ton of bugs to try to fatten them up. Ria freaking loves the bugs.

As for Samantha, I just don't know. The things that make her vomit just don't make sense to me. Quinoa, sweet potato, birdie bread, mash—I don't get it. A few months ago I actually had to feed her boiled millet because she couldn't keep anything down. Birdie bread was too dense, vegetables were too vegetable-y, seed was too hard to digest... I really don't understand. It's like the food isn't passing from organ to organ properly or something. She really wants to eat, but eating just makes her sick. I wonder if an x-ray would show anything. She's really focused on trying to eat grit right now, so I wonder if her body just isn't able to break down food properly anymore. This has been going on for more than a year now. I keep blaming it on the food I'm giving her, but who the heck has this many problems!?

Like, May 26 she was 34g, but on June 16, she was only 28/29g! Like, fudge, things aren't going well. And I NEED to get a fecal sample from her, but I don't think she's pooping at all >_<. And yes, I realize the gravity of the situation. I wonder if I should take her to Dr. Morris for an examination, but at the same time, she's really not doing great, and if I bring her in she might use up too much energy . Fudge, I think I should try syringe feeding her some water and olive oil with vitamins mixed in. Fudge, but things with fat in it would make her sick... Just R/O water with a touch of apple cider vinegar and Nekton-S vitamins, I guess. She's still able to fly and whatnot, but she's really going downhill.


EDIT
On a good note, I just weighed Samantha and she's 30g, so not bad. She also had a tiny poop in the container I used to weigh her in. However, I was playing with her crop (at least I think it's her crop), and it feels really spongy to me. Now, I don't have a whole lot of experience feeling crops since I try to avoid handling my birds since they don't trust hands. However, it definitely seems to be weird. Like, I'd imagine a full crop should feel somewhat firm to the touch, and it shouldn't feel like a squishy stressball? Like, that thing felt "bouncy" or "springy" to me. It's like a partially inflated balloon or something.

I've stuck her in a small flight cage in the aviary so the boys don't bug her while she's resting. I think I'll remove her food later and give her a crop exam in the morning to see if it's emptying properly. It definitely looks and feels distended to me at the moment, but maybe that's what crops are supposed to be like?

Anyways, her preen gland is looking as—deformed?—as always. I've mentioned this many times before, but at least two years ago, Samantha's preen gland ruptured or something like that. All I know is that there was blood all over her beak and preen gland, and I had to put a homemade e-collar on her so she'd quit picking at it. Anyways, fast forward to the present, and her preen gland is messed up. It either has some sort of tumours growing out of it, or it's hyperkeratosis. I think I should take some pictures of it to show Dr. Yee when I inevitably go to see her again.

 

[Teddscau]

So...it looks like Ju, Noah, and Lara are AGY-free. Just phoned Dr. Morris, and he said he didn't see any giant bacteria or yeast. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. I don't like those terms either. I think I'll bring fecal samples from Samantha, Pollo, Ziggy, and Rumi to Dr. Yee. But, Ju and Lara are both immune compromised, so if he actually didn't see any AGY with them, things might be looking promising for everyone else. I mean, it would be hard to miss AGY. It's way larger than bacteria even, so I doubt you could miss it. Obviously I'll still have to have those three tested again since they just might not be actively shedding the yeast.


EDIT
Wow, so Samantha's allergic to the chop! Awesome! Okay, so what do chop, mash, and birdie bread have in common (besides inducing vomiting)? Well, to answer your questions, I'm introducing her to each grain one at a time for two weeks! Fun! First off, we're trying barley. Will it cause vomiting after 10+ days? Let's find out! Then we'll move onto oats, then buckwheat, then wheat... I feel bad because she wants to be with her friends, but I can't have her almost dying every time she eats something. I have to figure out exactly what she's sensitive to/can't digest in order to make food that everyone can eat without becoming bedridden. Wait, should I introduce two things at once so we can speed things up? Because this is going to take us over a year if we do one at a time -_-. Okay, barley and oats it is then! It's annoying, because my chop has over 27 ingredients in it, so you'd think she'd be getting enough variety that she wouldn't be vomiting her guts out. So, this points to multiple sensitivities. Sensitivity stacking, if you will.

Oh! According to my scale, Ria's 48g and Tiki's 58g (my scale and Morris's show the same weight, but Dr. Yee' she shows several grams less). Not great, but not terrible. I'd like Ria to be 50–55g, and Tiki to be 65–70g. Not too shabby! My order finally came in, so I've been mixing palm oil into their food (chop and insects) since yesterday. They're costing me a fortune in insects -_-

 

[Teddscau]

Something's wrong with Ria! Mom just found her at the bottom of the cage, and she was on her side with her leg through grate. Weird sounds. Rhythmic movement. Cant\ stand. Vet now.

 

[Teddscau]

We had her put down.

 

[Loz]

I'm so sorry. Sending hugs to you

 

[dhraiden]

That is truly and deeply tragic: you have my utmost sympathies Teddscau.

When you are collected and at some appropriate future time, if you can return to share knowledge of what befell Ria, it would be of great benefit to the community.