Sneezing/Runny Nose

[Tikazoo]

Hi everyone,
Wanted to ask a few questions. Tika had a runny nose and loose stools over the weekend, so I took her to the vet today. She put her on Baytril said she heard some chest noise, but that she really didn't seem too bad. I am concerned abut the chest sounds, feel like I didn't ask enough questions - looking back on the exam. She did a white count said its fine, and nothing showed on the gram stain. I couldn't afford the culture but she said if this antibiotic doesn't work in a few days then we'll try another one. I also had put her on aloe detox since it started over the weekend, she does fine with that, and it did seem to make her stools better - she had a bit of diarrhea too. The vet said she doesn't need the aloe detox, but really wouldn't say much about it - my old vet loved the stuff for prevention and first go to for something coming on. Anyone have advise on herbals? I don't think it will interact with the Baytril but I did stop giving it temporarily - my gut just says she should still be on it. Not sure how she got sick, but did catch her eating her own doodles and had to buy her a different type of bowl so she couldn't sit and poo in it - yuck. TMI sorry. Vet said I passed her husbandry quiz with A+, but do you all think it could just be the poo? She is eating really well and is quite active, just sneezing and flinging clear fluid some. Stools look a lot better.... All advise appreciated, as always I can't thank you all enough for past advise.

 

[henpecked]

I've had some of the same issues with some of the zons and Baytril usually clears it up.I would also look for old/spoiled pellets,seeds,etc. Cleaning products could also cause similar symptoms.A side note on Baytril , it seems to work better when used in a nebulizier,check with your vet for dosage.Our zons get 2.7 % Baytril ,2cc in 15ml of 3% sodium chloride inhalation solution, this is good for a daily 3 dose regiment, usually for 10 days.But I'm not a vet and you should ask yours.I would also consider probotics after a antibiotic treatment.Sorry but i'm not much help with the herbals.

 

[Tikazoo]

Thanks Henpecked!! Supposed to hear from the vet for check in tomorrow or Thurs so I'll ask. She's eating, talking - all fine just this horrible sneezing and stools are off too. The stools looked good -back to normal on the aloe detox so am so tempted to use it again, don't like going against vet though. Harrison always but birds on it when I was working with him so I just feel like there is something good about it. Found some reasearch on it on the web but it's mostly dated back to my time of working in the field too, not seeing much that's current so I am sticking to following vet advise for now.... But my fingers are twitching to use it in spite of... I'll be good - for now

 

[Remy]

A lot of doctors recommend against natural/preventative things because they are not educated about it. I'm guessing that this is the case with your vet. I don't see how aloe vera could hurt anything, since it's so gentle. I've heard aloe juice can cause loose stools, but if it seems to help, I'd keep doing it.

Just my two cents.

What aloe detox are you using? Just plain aloe vera, or a particular product?

 

[roxynoodle]

Another reason many doctors don't recommend natural remedies is that there are no clinical studies nor studies over long term effects. And sometimes they can interfere with medications. Aloe is probably safe, but I guess I'd ask first just in case. There are some weird interactions among things. For example is you are taking a statin drug for cholesterol you can't eat grapefruit or drink the juice or the medication won't work well.

 

[Tikazoo]

Thanks everyone. Remy I use Lily of Desert. Greg Harrison, Avian vet of Lake Worth, Florida, also recommends Aloe Vera. In his book, Avian Medicine, Principles and Application. And i know he was very insistant about how miraculous the stuff was, but that was then and this is now so just didnt know if the thoughts have changed. Ill listen to the vet for now. She's still sneezing a lot, but eating, playing and otherwise okay. Stools seem a bit off but not as bad as they were originally. I'm still holding off, just curious about some of the old school stuff.

 

[MissyMe83]

So you're not giving the baytril?

 

[Tikazoo]

Oh gosh no I'm absolutely giving the Baytril, holding off on the aloe for now.

 

[henpecked]

Any improvement?

 

[Tikazoo]

Hi Richard thanks for asking. The vet called today said her white count was over 10,000 so it's not good. Tika nonetheless seems a bit better, she is still sneezing but no fluid, stools are back and forth. Eating great and very energetic. The vet says she actually thinks she has chlamydia or psittacosis. She was going to run about $450 in tests but then said in reality she just wants her on new meds for it ASAP and if she's not dramatically better in 5 days then she'll run more tests especially for her liver. I'm so worried about Tika, can't believe this and yet thankful for not having other birds right now.

 

[mcw009]

Another reason many doctors don't recommend natural remedies is that there are no clinical studies nor studies over long term effects. And sometimes they can interfere with medications. Aloe is probably safe, but I guess I'd ask first just in case. There are some weird interactions among things. For example is you are taking a statin drug for cholesterol you can't eat grapefruit or drink the juice or the medication won't work well.

Also those kind of things aren't regulated as well as controlled drugs (or at all, really). You don't always know for sure what exactly is in it or how pure it is. Worst case scenario, it could be actively harmful.

OP, I'm so sorry to see your bird isn't doing well! Good luck; I hope she turns around soon.

 

[ShreddedOakAviary]

So she put her on Doxycycline now? Chlamydiosis in parrots is really not as common as vets will have you believe. If you are terribly concerned, then confirm the diagnosis by sending your own tests off to avianbiotech. You want to be certain you are treating for the right thing, if it were me, i would take a nasal and throat swab and send it in for a sensitivity test to tell me which antibiotic you should be using... yes the vets charge upwards of $200 for a sensitivity test, but with parrots TIME is something you often DON'T have. AND if your vet puts your bird on an ORAL antibiotic you MUST INSIST for an an antifungal as well (like flucanozol), otherwise your bird will get canidae yeast infection of the crop which will slow the crop and the antibiotics won't get absorbed on time, etc.... I WOULD NEVER DEAL WITH A VET THAT PRESCRIBES AN ANTIBIOTIC WITHOUT AN ANTIFUNGAL AS WELL... and I am not the only breeder that knows this.

 

[roxynoodle]

I guess I am very lucky to now have a vet that can tests while I wait so we know exactly what we are dealing with! My previous vet DID prescribe anti-biotics to my conure along with a vitamin E/selenium injection without knowing which thing she really had. I still don't know as he never called me over the gram stains or anything else. Although based on her diet she should not have had any vitamin/mineral deficiency. Although maybe when they can't do their own lab work they feel it's better to be safe and get the bird on meds right away?

 

[Tikazoo]

So she is going on the doxy starting tomorrow. The vet is over an hour away from mr and is the only one anywhere near me so... Thanks for the comment Shredded Oak about needing an anti fungal I will ask about that for sure. She put her on Baytril without anti fungal so I'm thinking it's not her normal practice. The vets the only one around and somwhat high and mighty about herself. She talked down to me a lot like just waiting for me to say one thing about how I care for Tika that she old use to lecture me. She's got quite a reputation for lecturing people about all their faults in bird husbandry - I took that to be somewhat fearful about going to see her and yet also thought she just doesn't care who she offends the owners she wants the right thing done for the birds. Anyway she's all I have. Hopefully catching this early is a good thing. Thanks for everyone's advice and help it is very appreciated!!

 

[Tikazoo]

So I picked up the doxycycline today and she said start it tonight. I thought it was going into the water but nope, gotta give by hand twice a dy for 45 days. Wish me luck!!
No anti fungal either she said they would consider it if there was no improvement in 5 days but one thing at a time. So I'm confused. I am trying this now for 5 days then going back in for the big guns of all the tests they can come up with I guess. Meanwhile Tika is happy, eating and still sneezing.

 

[ShreddedOakAviary]

Watch her closely for crop slow down, and for any sign of wetness at the crease of her beak that doesn't go away... both sign of a canidae infection. If it were my vet, she'd already be fired (but I'm super picky).

 

[Pedro]

With my experience & having a bird on antibiotics for an extended period there is only a possibility that the bird will get candida. Personally i have never put a bird on antifungal unless necessary. However i am a great believer of giving probotics after a course of antibiotics.

Tikazoo the reason for the 5 day's on antibiotics & lets see is if your bird doesn't have Psittacosis & his problem clears up there is no reason to carry on with the meds. However if it doesn't clear up then they will most likely carry on with the droxy for the full 45 days.

However i'm enclined to believe that swabs should have been taken because the antibiotics would have killed the bacterial infection & you may never find out what is wrong. Lets hope this exercise works.

 

[ShreddedOakAviary]

As Pedro stated, the occurance may not be overly common, but not using an antifungal can be a risk. Candidiasis can be isolated from the digestive tract in low numbers in normal birds. Avian vets will tell you that one of the predisposing factors of candidiasis is prolonged antibiotic therapy (especially the tetracyclines), now while doxicycline may not cause the infection itself it is MY humble (or often not so humble) opinion that using something like fluconazole may be a wise decision in a bird when being treated with antibiotics. Especially when treating with an oral medication. So please just watch your bird.

Probiotics are an excellent idea, but the vet should advise you to wait between treatments (mid day) to use them, since they are not meant to be mixed with an antibiotic as it will bind the enzymes and make the drug less effective.

I use avibios mixed with a little warm water, most birds will take it pretty easily.

 

[Tikazoo]

Thanks everyone for the good information. I will definitely watch her closely. Thanks again. She's been on for full day now, did seem like the diarrhea was definitely made worse by the doxy today. Not liking that. Going to research if that is a side effect of taking it.

 

[Pedro]

I must stress Probotics are never given with antibiotics alway's after a course of antibiotics has been finished. Usually wait 24 hours after the last dose then it's OK. It's also safe to give everyday. If any one of my birds look a bit flat I give them a few good doses of Vetafarm Probotics if it's a minor ailment it will help the birds immune system & they can fight off the bug without going to the Vet's. However if it doesn't help it's off to the Vet's for something stronger or like ShreddedOak i have antibiotics on hand to administer to my birds myself.

Tikazoo, keep a close eye on the loose droppings, it's not that normal for that to happen with droxy. If at all worried It could subside a little if you only give your bird a dry diet just while on the meds. Try just the pellets for now if he will eat them everday that is. At least the pellets will have all the required Vitamins he will need. Hold back on the fruit & veg. Only until the course of droxy is finished.

Hope all works out.