Sigh... I think here we go again..

[WolfmoonCT]

For the last 2 weeks, Leo has been wanting nothing but to be in the same room as me. 5:50 every morning he starts with the "good morning" until I get up and open this cage door. Then I usually hear him continue it and climb up to the top of his cage and I hear him flapping his wings. He'll keep saying good morning until I come back out and take him off his cage and walk down the hallway with him on my hand, with him flapping his wings like he's flying.

Well, about 2.5 hrs ago, something happened which made him fly off the gymset I have in my room where I work from home. I picked him up and went to put him back on his gymset, and he tried to bite me.. I've gotten in the habbit of using an old perch to get him on and off his gymset or house, cause he can be grumpy sometimes and bite at me if I use my hand. I can use the perch, then he'll step up onto my hand fine.

So today when I picked him up off the floor onto my hand I went to put him on his gymset and when he showed the signs of getting ready to bite, i made him step up on the perch. I then walked him out to his house on the perch telling him he was a bad bird, and he doesn't bite his daddy.

When I got to his cage, he wouldn't step off it. He then fluffed up and walked down the perch to my hand and promptly took the skin of my knuckle and proceeded to try and pull a piece off it. I used the perch to but between his chest and my hand to force him to step up which he did after about 5-6 seconds of biting down and pulling on my skin. I tried to put him in his cage by placing the perch on top of the big perch in his cage, to which he didn't like. He tried walking down the perch a gain and I had to pull it out of the cage and lightly shake it to try and distract him. He flew off the perch down to the ground, with his feathers up and started walking toward me.. I tried to guide him to his cage with the perch I was holding, but he just kept grabbing at the perch with his beak. I kept backing away, and he kept walking toward me. He eventually stepped up onto it, but soon as he did he was goin right for my hand again.

I twisted the perch around while putting the perch near the bottom of his cage, forcing him to flip upside down, and gently put him on his back on the bottom of his cage, and shut the door. He sat there on his back for few seconds, both feet clasping the perch, before he finally released it and rolled back to his feet.

After he finaly climbed up to the big cross cage perch, I went to clean the papers of his cage, and as I was putting the new papers in, he scrambled down as fast as he could, and just started tearing the papers up.

For the last 2 hrs or so, he's been out there just making these pining beep sound as loud as he can, and saying all sorts of phrases he never says when he's around me. I know he's just trying to get attention. I opened his cage door so he can sit outside it, but I'm not giving him that attention he wants today. If I have to go out and get something from the kitchen, he'll sit on his door looking at me with his feathers up. I tell him that bad birds dont' get to come to the bedroom and that he was a bad bird for biting me. I know he understands.

I'm just afraid that this is the same thing that happened last year almost to the day when he was so nice then he just snapped and no matter how I tried to handle him from Sept to nearly Nov, he would just tear at my skin to the point I couldn't pick him up anymore. I know he's loosing feathers.. He's lost 2 tail feathers a bunch of smaller ones, 2 of his coverlet feathers 1 flight feather and the shaft of an old clipped flight feather. Maybe once his feather loss is done, he'll get back to normal..

Any suggestions on anything else I can do?

 

[Rrrma]

I can't help at all, I'm sorry... but are you sure he is a he?

 

[WolfmoonCT]

No, I was told it was a male named Leo when I got him.. He was 18 when I got him. But never had him tested or anything.

 

[Rrrma]

I wonder if it could be possible that it is hormonal. I don't know if male birds get hormonal like females, but I know females can get VERY hormonal during 'that time of the year'.

It might be difficult, but you could try visually sexing him using this as a guide. http://www.parrotforums.com/congo-timneh-greys/31-visual-sexing-greys.html
it isn't 100% or anything, but if he is really a she it would make me think it might be 'that time' and she doesn't want to be bothered.

What all do you know? Does he have a band? Has he ever been bred? etc...

 

[SharonC]

Oh, males do indeed get hormonal. It sounds as if that may be it, although I do hate to blame hormones for everything. Maybe he's just trying to get his way....he wants to be in the same room, he wants you up early, he wants off his cage....Be careful not to give in every time he wants....

 

[Bobby34231]

I'm just afraid that this is the same thing that happened last year almost to the day when he was so nice then he just snapped and no matter how I tried to handle him from Sept to nearly Nov, he would just tear at my skin to the point I couldn't pick him up anymore. I know he's loosing feathers.. He's lost 2 tail feathers a bunch of smaller ones, 2 of his coverlet feathers 1 flight feather and the shaft of an old clipped flight feather. Maybe once his feather loss is done, he'll get back to normal..

Any suggestions on anything else I can do?

It could be because he's molting, might also be why he was that way about a year ago as well, many birds get extremly grouchy when molting, some more than others

 

[WolfmoonCT]

Well, he's been out there since he bit me.. and he doesn't like it. He is just making every sound he can to get my attention. I hear him saying stuff I never hear him say unless he's in trouble and put into his cage. Then he will say stuff I never hear, to try and get in my good graces. I figure he can stay out in the living room. Maybe by tomorrow he'll be in a better mood.

I also know he's getting moody cause normally I can always walk over to him and tell him to give me a kiss and he'll just stretch his neck out and give me one. The last 2 days.. I ask for a kiss and he puts his head down a bit and wont' move.. I'm not stupid enough to put my face down there, cause i know he'd prob just snap that beak around and give me a bite.

Guess I'll have to see how things go.

 

[Rrrma]

So possibly hormones, possibly molting, definitely in need of an attitude adjustment as far as biting is concerned.

Can he not get down off his own cage? Could you allow him to have out of cage time while not allowing him to socialize with you? The reactions he gets from you, good and bad, are probably what he wants.

 

[WolfmoonCT]

He can get out.. The only time his door is closed is at night. Soon as I wake up I open his door for him. For a long time he didn't want to be away from his cage. It's infront of a large picture window and he always wanted to be there. He would be on one of the perches near the back of the cage looking out the window. If i came out he would kinda crouch low with his wings out a bit. If I talked to him and put my hand in to take him out of the cage, he would quickly snap at it. That's why I was glad when he started wanting to stay in the room with me all day while I worked. I talk to him and give him snacks. I thought he was changing to want to be around me.

I brought him back into my bedroom with the perch and he was fine. Soon as I put the perch near his gymset he tried running down the perch to get to my hand with his feathers up. So i just dropped the perch and made him fly to the ground.. that was when he started charging to me on the floor. Being barefoot, I didn't want to get bit, so I had to get out of the room.. when I went back in a few seconds later, he had walked over to the gymset and had climbed up onto the base.. so I figured i would use the perch to put him on it, since he seemed to want on it. Soon as he got on it, he went right for my hand again.. so I dropped it again, and he flew down to the floor again.. So I went down stairs and got my pair of welding gloves. I put one on and soon as he saw that, he stepped up onto the perch and then onto his gymset without issue.

I really do think he knows that he's causing pain, and knows that a glove protects and he cant' bite through it. Maybe I'm wrong, but just seems that way to me.

Right now he's over on his gymset nice and quiet with one foot up taking a nap... Plotting his future antics I'm sure.

 

[SharonC]

"Plotting his future antics I'm sure."

I know it's not funny, but picturing you with the welding gloves, and reading that comment really made me laugh!:18::18:

 

[WolfmoonCT]

It took me a good minute to get him off the gloves. I didn't want to grab him or try and make him fall and hurt himself, but he didnt want to get off them. He did eventually get off them but from the way he was biting, he was really trying to tear the gloves. If I didn't have them on, no doubt I prob would have had to go get stitches.. He bit me once last october where he cut it down to the bone. It bled for about 40 min. When he gets in these moods, he gets extremely aggressive.

Right now it seems the only thing I can do is make him stay in his cage a few days to cool off. I'm sure he's gonna be just as mad if not more when I go on vacation for 2 weeks. I have a coworker who will come in and check on his food and water, but he wont' be out of his cage for those 2 weeks.

 

[SharonC]

Now I feel bad for chuckling. I'm used to bites, but nothing like what you're talking about! I'm sure someone will be able to offer some suggestions. Good luck...hope he calms down.

 

[Rrrma]

Don't feel bad about using the gloves, they are necessary at times. I keep a pair on hand, just incase.

If he can get down from his cage on his own, I'd put his playgym next to it and let him out only to stretch his wings. I wouldn't interact with him unless he looked willing and if he pretended to be willing and then went to turn on you, I'd just walk away.

Make sure he can't get to anything dangerous and teach him that if he can't play nice, he can't play at all with you, not caged all the time. He should still be allowed out to play with himself and his toys and stretch his wings. It is just that you are the 'treat' and if he doesn't do the 'trick' he won't get his 'treat'. know what I mean?

 

[WolfmoonCT]

Yeah.. I hate not letting him out. I feel terrible already knowing he'll be in his cage for 2 weeks. He can get down from his cage. he has a ladder, but he's only ever gone down on the floor once. He never tries to. I take him outside to fly on my hand too, and when I bring him back in, as I go up the stairs from the front door, I usually put him on the floor to go where he wants, but he always just walks back to his house and climbs up it. He's in a macaw sized cage, so he has plenty of room to spread his wings.. he can easily get on that main bar and stretch them while I'm gone if he wants. and I know he must do it, cause I come home from work sometimes and find all sorts of stuff on the floor from his cage.

The problem with not interacting with him when he's not looking willing.. He usually shows that he wants, to, until the gets on your hand, then he'll just bend down as fast as he can and just start tearing at your skin like an eagle would rip at prey. Sometimes I can tell in advance.. but not always.

 

[Rrrma]

I'd stick to using the stick/perch and if you have to, get a longer one, or one with a shield. They do make sticks with shields for picking them up, or you could make one yourself.

I'd make him earn spending time with you, earn getting close to you.

Now I will tell you I have 1 bird who I do not touch. He is let out of his cage every day, he gets down on the floor and plays, but I never touch him. He was a rescued bird, he is not aggressive at all, but he was wild caught for breeding and he just won't ever be tamed.

I use the gloves on him when I can't manage to get him in his cage with food or treats or a stick. I'm ok with the fact I'll probably never be able to touch him, as long as he is happy otherwise, and he seems to be.

 

[WolfmoonCT]

Leo really doesn't play with any toys. We dont know if he was a breeder originally or what. But it's pretty rare for him to interact with any toys. The only toys that he absolutely loves are the jelly fish shredable toys from bird.com He loves to chew on the braided banana leaves. He'll also chew on paper towel rolls, and the occasional wooden piece. But that's it. Most of the time he just wanted to sit on a perch and look outside.

 

[Rrrma]

That is how my Norma is, she love love loves to shred! She was a breeder and she was scared to death of toys when I first introduced them. She ignores the things she can't tear up. She is happy as a clam to be given a piece of cardboard.

 

[WolfmoonCT]

Today he's been sitting on his cage door for the last 5 hrs just going "beeep" every few seconds cause he wants my attention. But if I go out to the kitchen he quiets down, and if I walk toward him he puts his head down and feathers out, basically telling me to keep the hell away from him or he's gonna bite me.

I go over to him and I talk to him, I've given him a orange piece today, but I am trying not to interact too much with him cause I don't' want him to think that doing that beep all day long will always get him attention.

 

[Rrrma]

It can be so hard to stick to our end of the bargain when it comes to discipline and such. I know I cave pretty fast when I give time outs, heh.

And honestly I think the 2 weeks apart may be a very good thing for the both of you.

 

[WolfmoonCT]

I went out to the kitchen to get a drink, and he was looking at me slightly crouched with his wings out.. which usually means he wants something. So I put the gloves on and had him step up which he did. he stood there for about 5 seconds then started attacking my hands again.. took me about 30 seconds to get him off the gloves and back into his cage. Thankfully cause he's not biting me, trying to get him off, is more along the lines of just waiting for him to give up trying to hurt me and step down.

Guess he needs more time to figure out what he wants.. attention or to be left out in the livingroom alone.