Should I adopt this three year old ruby macaw? PART 2!!

[Sterling1113]

I was actually just reading about this topic today, because it turns out I may be moving to AR in a few months. To my understanding it is illegal to ship across state lines. But if I personally return to Texas, and purchase a BTM, and drive on back to AR, It should be perfectly fine as neither state requires permits for the owning or transporting of endangered foreign species within the state. Was actually going to PM you, Mark, about whether I'm correct on that or not.

I also think it is counterproductive though, like mentioned above, making it difficult to sell them here is only going to diminish their numbers in captivity. Breeders will stop breeding because they'll just get stagnate lines and won't be able to sell the babies since they can't ship them anymore. Hurting their numbers in captivity isn't going to help anything about their numbers in the wild, but unfortunately it is what it is.

I also read several pages which said you can't own an animal on the ESA list within certain states, I think there were 28 states? And then another certain number of states were safe, and a handful were 'fuzzy' or 'vague' because the way they worded it was very blurry and subjective.

I guess anybody who wants a BTM better jump on it soon before breeders stop letting their pairs have clutches since hardly anyone is going to be willing to travel across the country to get one.. and good luck finding one in a rescue or on CL...

 

[Selestine]

I was actually just reading about this topic today, because it turns out I may be moving to AR in a few months. To my understanding it is illegal to ship across state lines. But if I personally return to Texas, and purchase a BTM, and drive on back to AR, It should be perfectly fine as neither state requires permits for the owning or transporting of endangered foreign species within the state. Was actually going to PM you, Mark, about whether I'm correct on that or not.

You're correct. Wendy said that as long as someone picked up the bird and did not tell her that they live out of state, she could sell a BTM.

 

[Sterling1113]

I was actually just reading about this topic today, because it turns out I may be moving to AR in a few months. To my understanding it is illegal to ship across state lines. But if I personally return to Texas, and purchase a BTM, and drive on back to AR, It should be perfectly fine as neither state requires permits for the owning or transporting of endangered foreign species within the state. Was actually going to PM you, Mark, about whether I'm correct on that or not.

You're correct. Wendy said that as long as someone picked up the bird and did not tell her that they live out of state, she could sell a BTM.

Thanks for that. I'll definitely not mention my address. :54:

 

[SpotsandSally]

There is another bill out there that involves 4 Macaws. Even though the US has ESA laws on the books already to prevent importation of birds, these AR groups are behind getting this law pushed through and depending on what state you live in, if your state automatically adopts the ESA laws as is, it will be illegal to OWN Hyacinths, Scarlets, the Great Green and Militaries.

Just how is THAT going to help these endangered species in THEIR OWN COUNTRIES? It isn't, but you have to keep in mind that the ultimate goal of these AR groups is to get all these laws passed to PREVENT us from owning ANY animals.

Not... Not at all....

Do you have a different source that's says specifically that? Because the source you listed says

'If the macaws are eventually listed as endangered, it would remain legal to sell currently owned birds within a person’s state, so a breeder in Florida could continue to sell within Florida. It would also remain legal to own the birds but not to cross state lines with them.'

It's just saying not to cross state lines.... A PITA, but it doesn't make owning them illegal. In fact, it says specifically it's still legal to breed and sell, within ones state.

 

[GW.Joe]

Thanks for that. I'll definitely not mention my address. :54:

My understanding is it does not matter where YOU live, it only matters that the seller is selling in their own state

And I made some calls today, some places I know are still "getting" BTM (not breeding them) and then selling them in their state

So it sounds like people are not following the rules
(can't say I blame them, making Lobby MONEY more important than the animal is sick)

Looks like people who know and trust each other are moving the birds around for sellers to then sell them locally

I am so saddened to find another reason to just not trust the government

 

[thekarens]

Technically if they know you live in another state they can't sell to you, so my recommendation would be to just not tell them.

 

[MacawLoverOf3]

Article was from 2012 but is still active on the ESA website

Endangered Species Program | What We Do | Foreign Species | Birds

If you click on the link for the Federal Register within the Yellow-crested cockatoo listing you can read that this is because of Friends of Animals filing a petition. The following is listed under Petition History.


Petition History

On January 31, 2008, the Service received a petition dated January
29, 2008, from Friends of Animals, as represented by the Environmental
Law Clinic, University of Denver, Sturm College of Law, requesting that
we list 14 parrot species under the ESA. The petition clearly
identified itself as a petition and included the requisite information
required in the Code of Federal Regulations (50 CFR 424.14(a)). On July
14, 2009 (74 FR 33957), we published a 90-day finding in which we
determined that the petition presented substantial scientific and
commercial information to indicate that listing may be warranted for 12
of the 14 parrot species.
In our 90-day finding on this petition, we announced the initiation
of a status review to list as endangered or threatened under the ESA
the following 12 parrot species: Blue-headed macaw (Primolius couloni),
crimson shining parrot (Prosopeia splendens), great green macaw (Ara
ambiguus), grey-cheeked parakeet (Brotogeris pyrrhoptera), hyacinth
macaw (Anodorhynchus hyacinthinus), military macaw (Ara militaris),
Philippine cockatoo (Cacatua haematuropygia), red-crowned parrot
(Amazona viridigenalis), scarlet macaw (Ara macao), white cockatoo
(Cacatua alba), yellow-billed parrot (Amazona collaria), and yellow-
crested cockatoo (Cacatua sulphurea). We initiated the status review to
determine if listing each of the 12 species is warranted, and initiated
a 60-day public comment period to allow all interested parties an
opportunity to provide information on the status of these 12 species of
parrots. The public comment period closed on September 14, 2009.
On October 24, 2009, and December 2, 2009, the Service received a
60-day notice of intent to sue from Friends of Animals and WildEarth
Guardians, for failure to issue 12-month findings on the petition. On
March 2, 2010, Friends of Animals and WildEarth Guardians filed suit
against the Service for failure to make timely 12-month findings within
the statutory deadline of the Act on the petition to list the 14
species (Friends of Animals, et al. v. Salazar, Case No. 10 CV 00357
D.D.C.).
On July 21, 2010, a settlement agreement was approved by the Court
(Friends of Animals, et al. v. Salazar, Case No. 10 CV 00357 D.D.C.),
in which the Service agreed to submit to the Federal Register by July
29, 2011, September 30, 2011, and November 30, 2011, determinations
whether the petitioned action is warranted, not

[[Page 35871]]

warranted, or warranted but precluded by other listing actions for no
less than 4 of the petitioned species on each date.
On August 9, 2011, the Service published in the Federal Register a
12-month status review finding for the crimson shining parrot (a
finding that listing was not warranted) and a proposed rule for the
following three parrot species: Philippine cockatoo, white cockatoo,
and yellow-crested cockatoo (76 FR 49202).
On October 6, 2011, we published a 12-month status review finding
for the red-crowned parrot (76 FR 62016); on October 11, 2011, we
published a 12-month status review and proposed rule for the yellow-
billed parrot (76 FR 62740); and on October 12, 2011, we published a
12-month status review for the blue-headed macaw and grey-cheeked
parakeet (76 FR 63480).
On September 16, 2011, an extension to the settlement agreement was
approved by the Court (CV-10-357, D. DC), in which the Service agreed
to submit a determination for the remaining four petitioned species to
the Federal Register by June 30, 2012.
On July 6, 2012, the Service published in the Federal Register a
12-month status review finding and proposed rule for the four following
parrot species: Great green macaw and the military macaw (77 FR 40172),
hyacinth macaw (77 FR 39965), and the scarlet macaw (77 FR 40222).
Upon publication in the Federal Register on August 9, 2011, of the
12-month status review finding and proposed rule for these species (76
FR 49202), we initiated a 60-day public comment period, which ended on
October 11, 2011.