Sedation for x-ray?

[TayKiren]

So I brought my parakeet to an emergency vet today, as no other vets are open. The vet says he looks good but underweight, which is what I was primarily worried about (along with his droppings). We are starting out with a fecal cytology and bloodwork, but she also said she might want to do x-rays. She said he would need to be sedated for this, which made me very anxious. Even though the vet said he seemed bright and alert, I don't know if I'm comfortable doing this. I hope something is found before it comes to that, but if it isn't, then do I have to go forward with an x-ray? Any advice? Experience?

For some background, he has been on and off antibiotics for the past month for different things, latest being some sort of lung infection (baytril). Part of why I don't want to do an x-ray is because the antibiotics could be making his gut messed up, right? I don't want to do an x-ray only to find that it was just side effects.

Thanks for any input.

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[TayKiren]

OKay, so! Now she's saying she didn't do bloodwork because he might need to be sedated for that, too. There was some overgrowth of bacteria in his feces, so she is putting him on metronidazole. I decided not to do any sedation today, since she said he is looking fine. I will contact my primary vet tomorrow to see what he says about bloodwork and all that, since he knows more about his history. Am I being too paranoid about sedation? Should I have let her do it? I'm very shaken thinking about it.

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[Laurasea]

I would like to help, but feel this is to complex to offer easy advice on.

I agree with you tho, that I'm not thinking x rays with an emergency vet....
That probably better to wait for your regular vet...
But that's you trust yourself, and the vet and discussing what's the benefits and rusks

 

[TayKiren]

Yeah, just wondering what other people might think, as making these decisions in isolation is terrifying.

She said it would be reasonable to talk to my vet tomorrow since he is not in critical condition and will be fine overnight at the very least.

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[noodles123]

It sounds like the vet is worried your bird could have a hearty attack from fear. Some vets overuse sedation, but this one seems like it is nervous based on your bird's behavior. I am guessing, but based on the fact that they decided it could be needed for bloodwork after handling the bird/observing it makes me think that is the case. I could totally be wrong..

 

[TayKiren]

No I think you're right, that does seem to be what she meant as she said bloodwork "can be hard on the bird"

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[wrench13]

I sympathise with you, its very hard to make these kinds of decisions when you are seeling medical care for your parrot, especially so in a perceived emergency situation. This is my opinion only, not based on any direct medical knowledge; I don't like the idea of anesthetics for such things as drawing blood. for a competent avian vet and his/her team there should be no need for it. Calmly restraining the parrot so blood can be drawn is a basic procedure, for experienced avian vets. A less experienced one or a dog/cat vet may feel that putting the paraeet out covers their back ( but possibly not in the best interests of the parakeet). If he is doing OK tonight, why not take him to see your regualar (hopfully avian ) vet on Monday 10/19, who will have the experience to now exactly when anesthetics are needed.
Again, this is my opinion, and what i would do if Salty (who is a smaller Amazon, but much larger than a parakeet) needed bloodwork.

X-rays- different story- the parrot needs to stay very still, stationary, zero movment while the film is being exposed, and we know parrots are not good at that even in the best of conditions. Still, experience dictates whether the vet knows all the variables about dosing a parrot, especiallly tiny ones. Too little and the bird gets all th stress of having a dose and doing the procedure with none of the benefits of having gone thru it; and too high a dose, well that has obvious down sides which I will not dwell on here.

Sedating parrots, small ones like lovebirds, parrotlets and parakeets is best left to experienced avain vets. My opinon only. Sending good thoughts out for you and your little guy.

 

[Jottlebot]

Sedation for a bird i thinknis done in a hood, the same as giving a bird extra oxygen. It isn't intravenous as far as I'm aware, but I only know because one of my birds was sedated lightly to have a leg band cut off and was then given extra oxygen because of the panic, not the sedation.

Either way I agree with you. I would rather wait and know I had the opinion of an avian vet.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Amy Amazon is sedated when a physical/bloodwork is done. He has a heart condition and the medication,a form of valium,mellows him right out,he would usually make a fuss being toweled and man-handled for his physical and grooming. His Doctor gives him an injection and in seconds Amy is in la-la land. After the procedure is over with she gives him another injection to nring him out of his stupor and in less than a minute he is his old self. I think with an xray sedation is required,how else are you going to keep a little birdie quiet and still for the x-ray? JMHO



Jim

 

[Laurasea]

as you have a tiny budgie....i can understand, some choose this way, and some vets don't

Hows the little one Today?

 

[TayKiren]

On the invoice, the anasthesia was listed as an injection. She wanted to do bloodwork because I had described his droppings, including the urates, as "slimy", and she thought something could be wrong with his kidneys. However, the urates weren't really something I was worried about, I think I just accidentally made it seem bad by my wording.

Today, his urates are completely fine. His droppings are a lot better, too. Some a little wet, but most good. He is still puffy, but I guess that probably won't change in a day until he really starts feeling better.

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[SailBoat]

You have received truly excellent advice above!

And, I fully agree that you need to quickly move away from the Emergency Vet service and onto a dedicated Avian Medical Professional, commonly defined as a Certified Avian Vet or a Vet that has taken the additional studies and has yet be become certified.

Anesthetics /sedation is rapidly becoming part of Avian Medical Support! This is driven by ever increasing lawsuits resulting from a stress-out Parrot dying in the clinic! The second is coming from the Medical Schools as anesthetics /sedation is becoming a standard practice across a very wide span of Breeds and Species, that are seen by Vets of all kinds. As our older Avian Professionals either cave to their Lawyers demands (or increased insurance costs) or leave the practice this will become ever more common place.

THAT SAID, I would never allow any emergency animal vet to anesthetics /sedation my Amazon. Never, no way, nonna!!!

At this point, find an Avian Professional.

 

[Scott]

On the invoice, the anasthesia was listed as an injection. She wanted to do bloodwork because I had described his droppings, including the urates, as "slimy", and she thought something could be wrong with his kidneys. However, the urates weren't really something I was worried about, I think I just accidentally made it seem bad by my wording.

Today, his urates are completely fine. His droppings are a lot better, too. Some a little wet, but most good. He is still puffy, but I guess that probably won't change in a day until he really starts feeling better.

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Gold-standard for avian anesthesia is inhalant gas, usually Isoflurane, though more expensive Sevoflurane is best. Unfortunately it is difficult to immobilize a bird for X-Rays while awake. Risk is higher with small birds, so good judgment is required before anesthetizing. I would absolutely consult a skilled certified avian vet if possible!

 

[noodles123]

Noodles had to have her 2nd x ray recently (w/out sedation) and they mentioned that they might need to sedate her IF she appeared to be too stressed by it...Apparently, she is just a giant ham because, while she screamed the place down and nearly caused me to break covid protocol to go check on her ("ma'am, you can't come back here" ***"is she okay???"), she got an xray for the 2nd time without sedation...BUT she is also very much an attention *you know what* and I think she just likes to make a big fuss, but secretly kind of enjoys being toweled etc LOL. Don't get me wrong, she is terrified, but it's like some subconscious part of her brain is okay with it..just enough.

She's not very active though (when compared to a budgie). I mean, she is active, but not flying all over the place etc when we are home. Laying on her back is also a trick she knows, so that may be part of it too.

I can totally see why an xray would not work for many birds unless they were on something though.

 

[Laurasea]

never ever would I suggest or allow for a sick burd to be injected with sedation. Most especially for a tiny budgies!!!!!! As Scott said inhale anesthesia gas only as its quickly reversible

 

[Scott]

Good article discussing avian anesthesia with emphasis on gas inhalants, precautions, and equipment. https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/anesthesia-for-companion-birds

Agree with Laura, I'd not consider injectable anesthesia unless dire emergency with no other options.

 

[TayKiren]

Okay, so after while he seems to be doing well. However, this morning, he is now obsessed with trying to the paper towel I use at the bottom of the cage. He has a paper shredder toy in the cage, but he is ignoring it. Luckily, the vet said I can move him back in with the other birds in the bigger cage, so hopefully he will stop this behavior once I do.

Why is he doing it in the first place, though? Boredom? Stress? The antibiotics?

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[noodles123]

Mine does it when hormonal